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modirt 
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 Topic: Stuck clutch or TOB?
Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 3:43pm |
Symptom is clutch pedal is out, but pedal does not move. Will not move. No play at all.
Has been parked outside and sat unused for the past 3 or 4 years.
I'm thinking the throw out bearing is frozen to the shaft.
If it was just the clutch frozen, wouldn't the pedal go down but the clutch not release?
Either way, how to go about unsticking it?
Currently in neutral and will roll. I'm thinking of rocking it enough to slide into low gear, then gently rocking it for starters to see if if will break loose. That would be gently rocking. If it was a stuck TOB, seems to me you could do some damage in a hurry if you forced that to rotate. Should I remove the cover below the bell housing and spray TOB with PB Blaster first?
Would really like to avoid pulling the transmission off if I can.
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 3:46pm |
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What tractor start with the linkage even a frozen throw out bearing would have some slop in the linkage.
Edited by Dakota Dave - 05 Jul 2019 at 3:48pm
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DougG
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Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 4:00pm |
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What model machine would be very helpfull
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 4:04pm |
before you 'rock and roll'.... pull the plugs, toss some oil down all the cylinders, let sit for a day.. you could easily have a mouse house CONDO ! My D-14 troy was STUFFED..hmm no wonder the clutch didn't work....
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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modirt
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Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 4:14pm |
Basically it's an old truck.
Engine will turn over, so maybe not TOB?
Has a mechanical cable to the clutch yolk lever. It is the lever that will not budge.
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 05 Jul 2019 at 5:16pm |
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What old truck, pickup or big truck, or are you working on something home built?
Have you unhooked the cable from the lever and confirmed the pedal and cable are moving freely ?
Does it have an inspection hole in the bottom of the bell housing, behind the flywheel, where you look to see the clutch and throw carrier/bearing? Many old trucks did.
If the pedal and cable are free and you can't move the lever; I would suspect the throwout bearing carrier has seized to the transmission input snout. I've seen that happen. Or maybe you have a mouse condo, as Jay mentioned.
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modirt
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Posted: 06 Jul 2019 at 8:08am |
Basically home built. Truck type chassis with flat bed on top for hauling hay.....(hay tedded and raked by the D15...  )
Pretty sure the cable and pedal are free, but I can can disconnect to verify.
Rig dates back to around 1970. Engine is a 318 Chrysler with 4 speed manual transmission hanging off the back. Bell housing has a small hole in the bottom, but also has a removable plate that would really open it up from below. Removing that will probably be my next step.
I also assume if the pressure plate has seized up to the clutch disk, it would not want to budge and that would prevent the yolk from retracting back?
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 06 Jul 2019 at 12:17pm |
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When you say the pedal is out do you mean it is at the top where it should be for the clutch to be engaged and drive the truck and it will not push down to disengage? If that is the case I would start by unhooking the cable from the throw out lever on the transmission and see if the pedal pushes down and the cable slides. I have seen cables seize up. If those move open the inspection plate and see if the throwout bearing carrier is rusted to the transmission snout. You should see the throwout carrier move when you move the lever by hand.
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modirt
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Posted: 06 Jul 2019 at 5:23pm |
An update. Cables were OK. Took the cover off.....not much to see. Crankshaft seal must be leaking as there was a drop of oil on ring gear. That will be dealt with later.
On a hunch, I got a small pry bar to see if I could move the yolk at all. Turns out I could, but it was very stiff. So went back to the clutch pedal and really got on it and it moved. I had been reluctant to do that before, but knowing things down there were not frozen up, I managed to exert same amount of force on yolk through the clutch pedal as with the small pry bar. But to me it seems excessive. Easily 4X what the tractors require and way more than any other manual I've ever run.....which would be a gob and a bunch of those. Seems to me to be nearly enough to break something.
So what would cause a clutch to be that hard to disengage?
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 06 Jul 2019 at 5:49pm |
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Have someone push and hold the clutch pedal down. Is the snout of the transmission, between the front of the transmission and carrier, where the throw out bearing carrier slides dry/rusty or does it look damp with lube? If dry/rusty looking squirt a little lube (like chain and cable or penetrating oil) on the snout between the front of the transmission and throw out bearing carrier. If you can see the snout on the pressure plate end, when the clutch is engaged, carefully get a little lube on it. Keep the lube away from the pressure plate. Pivots and pins in the pressure plate are likely rusty as well from setting. Likely will free up some if you exercise it since it is moving.
Edited by Jim.ME - 06 Jul 2019 at 5:57pm
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 07 Jul 2019 at 6:05pm |
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FreeAll is your friend apply large amounts to every moving part and exercise them. After a few cycles it should start to move easier. Once it's easy to move lube with what ever regular lube is required. The FreeAll will dissipate but it sure penetrates and loosens things up
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modirt
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Posted: 08 Jul 2019 at 7:50am |
Never heard of FreeAll, but looks to be a helpful product all over this rig. It needs a master brake cylinder and bleeding the brake lines is a major concern.....as bleeder valves may be stuck. Getting those open without breaking them (no pun intended) is going to be dicey.
Back to the clutch. Seeing that drop of oil hanging on the ring gear on the flywheel suggests an oily, gummy gunk all over this thing......starting with the shaft the throw out bearing slides on to the springs on the pressure plate. That would explain a lot regarding the heavy, stiff clutch pedal.
Will probably drench it all with brake cleaner to see if that frees things up at all, and if so, keep going with that route for now. FreeAll looks like it would help too. All of these are more or less short term fixes to a long term problem.
Eventually is going to require dropping the transmission to remove the clutch and get to the main crankshaft seal to stop the oil leak.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 08 Jul 2019 at 3:37pm |
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On the bleeder valves, I have found that the shank end of a drill bit that just fits in the bleeder hole, helps keep the valve housing from crushing and twisting off. My success has greatly improved on these doing that. Your mileage may vary.
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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modirt
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Posted: 08 Jul 2019 at 5:31pm |
 chaskaduo wrote:
On the bleeder valves, I have found that the shank end of a drill bit that just fits in the bleeder hole, helps keep the valve housing from crushing and twisting off. My success has greatly improved on these doing that. Your mileage may vary. |
Sounds like the voice of experience? Reminds me of the old saying......"good judgement comes from experience.......and that is learned and gained from bad judgement".......or something like that.
Have also been warned to use a full 6 sided box end wrench (or maybe a line wrench) to avoid rounding over the tips. And easy does it.
Considering the train wreck that ensues if you screw these up, you would think they would make them a bit more robust?
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 08 Jul 2019 at 10:28pm |
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Try a brass drift against the end.A few good whacks can help dislodge stuck threads. Sometimes there's room to apply some heat from an acetylene torch around bleeder.
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ac fleet
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Posted: 08 Jul 2019 at 11:23pm |
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If it's homemade,---the geometry of the pedal might be to high. -- if hooked high----it will be hard to impossible to push. ----Not knowing or seeing the thing, can't say more than that.
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Dakota Dave
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Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 2:44pm |
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Ok how did all the replies about stuck bleeders get in a post about stuck mechinical linkage?
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modirt
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Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 4:48pm |
Dakota Dave wrote:
Ok how did all the replies about stuck bleeders get in a post about stuck mechinical linkage? |
That was my fault. Someone mentioned using FreeAll on the clutch, and I said it might also be good on my rusty bleeder valves too. (as of today, I now have a can to wave around at it). That morphed into how to free up bleeder valves.
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chaskaduo
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Posted: 09 Jul 2019 at 5:01pm |
It's a free for all. 
OK I'm outta here.
Edited by chaskaduo - 09 Jul 2019 at 5:01pm
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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