| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Leon B MO 
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Old Monroe, Mo
Points: 2186
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: 8050 running hot?
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 9:42am |
|
Ok, couple of years ago this tractor started running hotter. It has a Murphy switch and mechanical temp gauge so we can tell actual water temperature. We are only pulling a 22' disc, so it's not being overworked. Over the past two years we have had the radiator rodded, replaced thermostats, stuffed foam in every nook and cranny around the radiator and good tight belts. When starting out the temp is 160-180. It takes about 45 minutes of work but slowly the temp continues to rise up to 210, just before the red line on factory gauge. Dad wants to put a water pump on it, it's the only thing we haven't changed. Any thoughts or input, what else to look for.
Thanks
Leon B
|
|
Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself".
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
Jwmac7060
Orange Level
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Location: Indiana
Points: 929
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 9:59am |
|
Do u have good foam around the radiator
|
|
Lonn
Orange Level
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
Points: 29805
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 10:12am |
|
My 7050 has a thin layer of foam under the radiator too. Will a temp gun be accurate where the sender unit screws in? Anybody know? My brother's 7030 was showing between 210 and 240 at the gauge the other day but a temp gun pointed at where the sender unit screws in showed between 180 and 185 every time I checked. Temp gun from NAPA was something like $30 or $40 and I've used it a lot.
|
|
-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink
I am a Russian Bot
|
|
Jwmac7060
Orange Level
Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Location: Indiana
Points: 929
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 10:14am |
|
I would say the guage is wrong on the tractor if the difference was that great.
|
|
Leon B MO
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Old Monroe, Mo
Points: 2186
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 10:49am |
|
I think my gauges are accurate. I need to cool the water and engine down.
Leon B
|
|
Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself".
|
|
Kansas99
Orange Level Access
Joined: 26 Feb 2015
Location: W Kansas
Points: 4868
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 11:14am |
Leon, I have a 8070 that does the same thing but you don't have to work it. I bought the tractor with loader from Sumerix several years ago and it has always heated, might be why previous owner got rid of it. Anyways if it gets over 90 degrees it will creep up if it is over 1500 rpm. Wish I could help but if you figure yours out please post the fix you found. I have done water pump, radiator rod, sending unit twice, gauge, thermostats twice, and foam. Pulled head nothing wrong, fuel pump rebuild, checked timing-balancer for slip. Forgot to mention when they rod the radiator they installed a baffle to make sure water went all the way across top. THe radiator drops the water temp 20+ degrees. I have reduced it to a loader tractor only, there is only so much money you can throw away and not fix the problem. Good luck and please keep us posted as to what you find.
I was thinking a mechanical gauge however, when gauge is against the red temp gun reads 220 at temp sender and 230+ at back of block. Radiator still drops water 20+
Edited by Kansas99 - 20 Apr 2015 at 11:21am
|
|
Leon B MO
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Old Monroe, Mo
Points: 2186
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 11:37am |
|
How hot is to hot to a 426? It ran at 210 till I got rained out Sunday.
Leon B
|
|
Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself".
|
|
tbran
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Points: 3526
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 12:48pm |
|
the 7000 and 8000 had engineered in a tremendous amount of reserve heat rejection. Each unit has a larger radiator from the 7010 8010 and up to the 7080 8070. Make sure it has the correct radiator.
In conditions the radiator can plug in a few minuets if the front screens are torn or missing. Cleaning the radiator can NOT be accomplished unless the shroud is removed. The stack of oil coolers up front can be plugged and serve as a dam to prevent air flow. ( The engine timing can be advanced and over fueled as well beyond the ability of the radiator to cool it.) One can check the flow through the radiator simply by warming it up until BOTH thermostats are fully open then with the radiator full to just below the neck, rev the engine from idle to full throttle. The water should lower 3" then gradually come back up. No bubbles or belching should occur. A tractor that is reading 220 when stopped and returned to around 1500 rpm should cool down to 180-190 with in 3-4 minutes on an 85 degree day . If it does not, it is a plugged radiator, an incorrect radiator, fan or shroud .
Once again the tractor we fought the hardest with was correctly BY THE CRANK PULLEY which had slipped - we ended up timing by push rod movement; the pulley was off by 15 degrees...
|
|
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
|
|
Gerald J.
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Hamilton Co, IA
Points: 5636
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 2:02pm |
|
I had an F350 that overheated in a few miles of highway driving.One day I took off the fan belts and spun the water pump shaft and it coasted a turn or two. No rotor load at all. A new pump cured the overheating. Since I was to trade in the old pump I didn't open it up to see what the rotor looked like. It was a pump design that didn't expose the rotor when unbolted from the engine.
I have known new thermostats to run on the hot side. I try to test them in a pot of water with a quick reading thermometer before installation.
Radiator air flow is crucial, 210 is warm but with 50/50 permanent antifreeze and a several psi pressure cap that's not yet boiling the coolant. Then I have had troubles with the temperature sensors too giving erroneous readings before the thermostats failed and I have had thermostats fail by not opening and failed by opening at 120 or 130 F.
Gerald J.
|
|
Leon B MO
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Old Monroe, Mo
Points: 2186
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 2:39pm |
|
Is there a way to verify the correct position of the crank pulley/timing marks?
Leon B
|
|
Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself".
|
|
Kcgrain
Orange Level
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Points: 794
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 4:55pm |
|
Yep on the front of the dampner is 2 dimples on both side of the rubber, they should line up, if they dont the dampner has spun and the marks are out of time from crank position to pump position
|
|
Kansas99
Orange Level Access
Joined: 26 Feb 2015
Location: W Kansas
Points: 4868
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Apr 2015 at 6:30pm |
tbran, how can I tell if the fan and radiator are correct for an 8070. I don't have anything to compare to. Thank you
Sorry Leon not trying to highjack your thread
|
|
427435
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Location: SE Minnesota
Points: 18637
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 12:08am |
|
|
|
Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
|
|
JPG AUSTRALIA
Orange Level
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Points: 767
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 6:39am |
|
Had a engine once that would get a bit hot on high temp days, but was fine when it was cool, it had new radiator and thermostat ect.block was back flushed as well. Eventually the motor was pulled out for a full rebuild ,after i had it rebored i knocked out the core plugs to replace them ,the back cylinder had a build up of mud junk packed around the back end of the block,wasnt alot. Anyway cleaned it out , rebuilt motor and it never heated up again, no mater how hot a day it was.
|
|
SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Shelbyville IL
Points: 8615
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 9:07am |
|
Well,I can't solve the problem but we all know there is something not right somewhere.Keep digging!
|
|
injpumpEd
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 5095
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 9:48am |
|
does it seem like it has the correct amount of power? or is it low and seem to be laboring? Or does it seem like it has an excessive amount of power?
|
|
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
|
|
tbran
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Paris Tn
Points: 3526
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 12:36pm |
|
sticking a small plastic tie in from front to back a 8070 -7080 radiator is just under 4" thick - not the tank - the fins/cores/flues what ever you call them. The tanks are all the same - so they all look alike.
|
|
When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
|
|
Creek Jenkins
Orange Level
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Northern Minn
Points: 812
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 1:10pm |
IR temp guns are a crap shoot - accuracy is all over the map, but in general not good. Even if they are close to accurate, you are measuring surface temp, not the coolant inside the tank. Have a fair amount of experience measuring coolant temps and have never had luck with the temp guns. Most older diesels of the had a max temp of 203 (Detroit) to 212 (Cat), depending on the manufacturer. Newer engines now are allowing higher temps of 212 to 230F. If you have good airflow and good waterflow you should be okay (if you have the right rad). I would look for airflow restrictions first as described above, then tackle the waterside problem. 20F is a big drop across a rad- if you are at full load and full speed normally 8 to 10F is average(with stats wide open). Lower engine speed and/or stats partially open will have lower flow and therefore a higher drop across the rad. cheers, Creek
|
|
427435
Orange Level
Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Location: SE Minnesota
Points: 18637
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 2:07pm |
|
The $40 gun I posted seems to fairly accurate. That's based on checking temps of know things as well as temps at the thermostat housing. While it could be off a few degrees, you can get a pretty accurate idea if the problem is with the radiator on something else using one.
|
|
Mark
B10 Allis, 917 Allis, 7116 Simplicity, 7790 Simplicity Diesel,
GTH-L Simplicity
Ignorance is curable-----stupidity is not.
|
|
injpumpEd
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Walnut IL
Points: 5095
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 2:24pm |
|
the actual numbers aren't important, you're looking for a difference in top and bottom of radiator temps.
|
|
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
|
|
Lonn
Orange Level
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Назарово,Russia
Points: 29805
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 2:25pm |
|
My temp gun is off 4 degrees so I figure that's pretty close for measuring engine heat. BTW the exhaust manifold varies a whole lot from center to outside. I didn't write down the temps but in the center I believe I was getting near 500˚F (maybe 450 to 475) while at the outer ports I was around 350. Makes me think I should install a pyrometer in the exhaust. I would think that might give the best monitoring of engine heat?
|
|
-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink
I am a Russian Bot
|
|
Dkienzle
Bronze Level
Joined: 22 Feb 2013
Location: Central IA
Points: 192
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 5:12pm |
|
We had an 8050 once that would do something similar. Work it for awhile and it would get hot. It had good foam and we put new thermostats in it, replaced the water pump and had the radiator gone through. Still would get hot. Was field cultivating with it and it got hot so for craps and giggles I took the side panel off and looked around. One or the radiator hoses was collapsing and restricting flow. I believe there is supposed to be a spring in the hose to keep them from collapsing. Ours was broke or missing. We replaced it and never bothered again.
|
|
RockyBottomFarm
Orange Level
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Location: Fall Creek WI
Points: 253
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Apr 2015 at 5:25pm |
|
My Cummins was overheating hauling loads on hills, pulled radiator and pressure washed it and put new coolant in, now cant get it over 190 deg even pulling a 12,000 plus truck on the trailer last week. never though a was and new coolant would do something so simple. last had new coolant 4 yrs ago. Thinking about putting on a coolant filter.
|
|
38 & 41 B, sickle mower, 2 way plows, rear field cultivator, 2 row drill planter
40 Combine
66 Combine
Roto Baler
|
|
Leon B MO
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Old Monroe, Mo
Points: 2186
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 6:17am |
Thanks for all the responses, we bought this tractor brand new off the lot so we know history. Factory rad, rodded two years ago so that should be ok. Foam is right and rad fins are clean. Tested the thermostasts in hot water before installing. I am going to look into the timing part and will post what we figure out. Leon B
|
|
Uncle always said "Fill the back of the shovel and the front will take care of itself".
|
|
cowkicker
Orange Level Access
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Location: Ky
Points: 529
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 11:12am |
|
I had the same problem a couple of years ago with an 8050 that I have owned since the day it was bought new. I did all the things that everyone on here has talked of with no success. One day the muffler on the 8070 loader tractor rusted apart and it was going to take a few days for the dealer to get one, so I took the muffler off the 8050 and put it on the 8070, when the new muffler came in, I put it on the 8050. The new muffler solved the 8050 heating problem! Why the 8070 doesn't heat up with the old 8050 muffler on it? Only thing I can think of is that the 8070 is a loader tractor, never run hard, never in a strain, no reason to warm up much. If I would hook the 8070 to a disc or something it might heat up also. But for 2 years both are fine. Just my experience!
|
|
rw
Silver Level
Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Location: United States
Points: 384
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 4:09pm |
|
We ran into an overheating problem in a Mercedes diesel straight truck and it had pure antifreeze. put 50/50 antifreeze/water cleared the problem. rw
|
|
8050/8030/185
Silver Level
Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Location: United States
Points: 171
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 Apr 2015 at 8:26pm |
|
I had the same problem with my 8050 yrs ago and the timing was off. Got the timing right with a new damper and never had another problem with overheating.
|
|
