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The Mack Trucks of Jones Transport |
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fjdrill ![]() Silver Level Access ![]() Joined: 13 May 2012 Location: Alabama Points: 332 |
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Thats a little-known fact I did not need to Know. OH, look Squirrel!!!!
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BuckSkin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 577 |
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Tuesday_25-February-2025
![]() Jones Transport 1976 Mack Cruise-Liner ![]() ![]() |
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BuckSkin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 577 |
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The Mack Trucks of Jones Transport KY Hwy 80 East - Columbia - Adair County - Kentucky Tuesday_25-February-2025 Jones Transport 1986 Mack Super-Liner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 32684 |
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Super Liner with CAT Power
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BuckSkin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 577 |
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For many years, Caterpillar 3406 was an engine option in Mack trucks. I have driven some terribly powerful, even scary powerful, Caterpillar engines and many 3406 Caterpillars; and, I never found any of the 3406 I ever drove to be very impressive. The Detroit "430" 8V92T and even 8V92TT were common options in Macks; curiously, seldom was any other size Detroit found in a Mack. For whatever reason, the V-block Detroits didn't seem to suffer from the self-destructibility of all the other brand V-block engines where two pistons shared a single main.
Edited by BuckSkin - 05 Mar 2025 at 12:29am |
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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I've never thought the two stroke engines had the torque rise of the others. They had the torque, just not as sharp oncoming as the other brands. I still have several of them around in many variants and they all run well. I don't think there is a finer generator set engine than a 12V-71T myself. Like them enough I kept one back when changing to a Kohler set.
I have three Mack trucks with V8 Mack engines and they are a good engine also, but can be delicate under a heavy foot. Don't have that problem myself, but my trucks are not working units.
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BuckSkin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 577 |
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Back in the 1970s, we did all the tire service for a lady in Adair County, Kentucky, who had a fleet of cabover Macks. She had this one two-tone green Mack, sort of Army Green and a lighter green, that had a V-16 Mack engine. The transmission was way back behind the cab. At the time, we saw the thing every time it was back in the community and sort of took it for granted; but, I do remember other truckers purposefully dropping by whenever it was around to get a look at it. It is the only one I ever saw; and, people now won't believe me and accuse me of making it up; but, it was very real and did exist. I saw it a few times with the cab tilted and you could count the cylinders = eight per side. It has been a long time; I sort of want to think that close inspection would show that it was two V-8s spliced together, with a definite space between the fourth and fifth cylinders where the rear of one engine mated with the front of the other.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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Could be as Mack did experiment with engines in their heyday. Never seen one myself. The Detroit 16V-71 was in fact two engines married up. The blocks, and crankshafts bolted together through companion flanges.
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 32684 |
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Mack V8s were as useless as the 90nothings. Loads of noise and reasonable HP just low end was not there. Cat was like the END series, lower rpm torque monsters and the cowboys that drove like driptroits got what was expected, lots of shifting as stayed at top end of curve did not leave the engines work.
Mack ENDTs preferred to operate at 11-1200 and just hammer there. |
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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The "903" Cummins in natural aspirated form was not very good in reality. Now they could be "hopped up" and be a respectable powerhouse but this engine, (like most any V8 of the time) was not good in the vocational fields where a high torque rise is desired. Biggest problem was cooling with most of these designs. Cracked heads was very common in most of them. With exception of the V8 Detroit engines, all fared much better on the line haul scenario.
Through the 1970's Mack analogy for their engines: EN = Engine D = Diesel T = Turbocharged After April 1, 1980 the nomenclature was changed to comply with emmisions standards of the time. I have three ENDT-866B engines: Turbocharged V8 Mack engines with "Dynatard" engine brake. Also one ENDT-865B engine with "Dynatard" engine brake. Also a spare ENDT-865 without engine brake. All run very well and are not oil burners but have had good maintenance. All displace 866 cubic inches. "Maxidyne" tuning did prefer the low rpm lugging and this was very true with the inline six engines; so much so several would split the block through the main webs from the twist. This was corrected through thicker castings in the breakage prone areas. Every time I seen this was in a dump truck chassis. Of these, usually the ENDT-675 series engine which was commonly referred to as the "237" Mack engine, suffered this in the early days. The 866 series was rated at 375hp, the 865 engine being rated at 325. The 865 was "Maxidyne" tuning and usually had either a five, or six speed transmission. The 866 series engine had a nine, 10, or 13speed transmission behind it with conventional torque rise.
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 32684 |
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Worked many EN series engines in 1970s and 80s, also did repairs of 903s both natural and turbocharged, had one client LOVED the noisy buggers. Rebuilt a number of 53, 71 and 92 series DDs, simple engines yet had their issues much as the Zinc Pellets ("Pencils") no one ever replaced or knew they existed and blocks self destructed inside out. The Original Green 92s were bored out 71 series blocks, grenaded OFTEN, Silvers were built to 92 designs only.
The terminology 'Rattle Rattle Thunder Clatter BOOM BOOM BOOM' came from 90nuthin or 900ci engines with the three working cylinders, Triple Nickels were as bad, never had one with a quiet overhead. 3406 Bs were sweet mechanicals, Es were a step up to the C Series Cats, C15 before Emissions Crap were AWESOME on fuel savings many getting over 8 up to 9mpg LOADED. Detroit lack luster DDEC 2 stroke engines were always in shops, the advent of Roger Penske's design 60 series made the difference, those devolved to the DD13-16 series, Daimler now owns them, are slowly morphing to Daimler Benz engines. Volvo owns Mack, they too are devolving to Volvo systems, highly expensive and parts problematic as to availability after just a few years. Cat engines no longer built for Trucks, HOWEVER the C series is still being constructed CHINA, S KOREA and JAPAN, Parts readily available.
Edited by DMiller - 04 Mar 2025 at 6:12pm |
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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Not much experience with Cummins at all myself. A lot with Mack, and Detroit two stroke of all varieties in the 1970's as a kid coming up. Gone from that arena by the time Detroit Diesel was sold off by GM. Most any of them were only as good as maintained. Of all of the engines through the 1970's, I feel the Detroits took a bit more "finesse" to keep operational and contrary to popular belief, they didn't have to leak oil. Most did but my take on that is the "ram and slam" mentality of the servicing mechanics of the day. if a guy would take his time and indicate the flywheel housing to the block and crankshaft stub using the studs/tools for this task, along with a thin but even layer of "Permatex" sealant on theis housing, oil pan rails, geartrain covers, along with pipe "dope" on the retention fasteners, they didn't leak oil. Clean airbox tubes and "catch cans" were a must on these engines but several I'd seen never had attention given them. With plugged tubes crankcase pressure would push oil mist from the weakest points it could find to escape. Cast aluminum rocker covers were a great improvement and helped in that area greatly.
I thought them one of the easiest heavy diesels to work on and maintain. Once you mastered how to run the overhead and governor on these, (with correct tools) they were very reliable. Clean fuel filters were a must as a stuck fuel injector would usually disallow the engine to start, or run away as they all worked together. The V-92 engines had a "breakaway" setup that allowed the other fuel injectors to work if one was stuck but the engine ran with a miss. Never seen a 92 series run away myself, but have the 53, and 71 series. DMiller is correct in the early V92 engines were not very good. When the "Silver" series debuted, there were vast improvements and GM gave a pretty good warranty on them for the time. The "TA" series of the 92 series was a pretty good engine overall. The "T" was for turbocharging, the "A" was for aftercooling which was water to air. Air to air aftercooling, or intercooling was gaining traction at the time but wasn't commonplace yet. Never seen a 555 Cummins in an onroad application but a lot in articulated loaders and off road medium sized trucks in the mines. From memory, not a reliable engine and IIRC english built, vendored by Cummins. The 903 series was a decent flatland truck engine, and excelled in boats and watercraft where ample cooling water was available. Heat seemed to be the enemy to both of those engines as they were hard on valves, and head castings.
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BuckSkin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 577 |
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There are dozens and dozens of Louisville Line Ford 9000s around here, tri-axle dump-trucks, with 6V92 Detroit power. I have witnessed at least three 6V92 engines that "ran away backwards", which is exciting indeed. Usually, this was caused when the engine choked down to the point of almost dying; and, when the truck then rocked backwards, it effectively roll started the engine backwards; --- they will absolutely and uncontrollably GO WILD. The anti-freeze will start puking out the breather and exhaust, raining down on everyone and everything anywhere near. The engine will just spin faster and faster until something gives; or, until some very brave and foolish soul crams his jacket or coveralls into the throat of the intake and smothers it out. On one very memorable occasion, I was following such a Detroit Ford, from the rock-pile at the quarry to the dense-grade spreader-box at the new road construction. When we arrived, the truck ahead of him was just pulling away from the spreader. Being in tight quarters for so many loaded trucks and equipment, he was forced to throw his right-front wheel up on a steep hump of rock and dirt as he navigated the truck into position to back into the spreader. At just the critical point, his engine smothered down to the point that it kicked over and took off backwards and the show was on. The spreader-box operator jumped into action, stripping off his coveralls as he ran toward the screaming truck. The driver had already gotten the hood flipped over. I thought the prudent thing to do was to watch and observe, just in case I ever needed to be the hero. One or the other of them knocked away the breather tube so that the end could get stuffed with the coveralls. Anti-freeze was all over everything and oil was puking out from anywhere and everywhere. I wouldn't have given ten cents for the chances of that engine surviving such an episode; but, once they got it smothered out, and it cooled down enough to handle, they poured in some water and added the lost oil and that thing didn't turn over twice before it was sitting there running like a Singer Sewing Machine. Once he got his rock off, he headed straight to the high-pressure hose at the car wash and washed all the oil from the engine before it got hot and decided to burn down the truck; and, he hauled countless loads of rock and blacktop for several more years. I always thought that, if I had such an engine, I would employ a simple close-able gate in the air intake just like those I have fabricated and employed within the duct-work of my sawdust collection system in my woodshop, complete with choke-cable control that could be quickly operated from the driver's seat. I really appreciate that you guys have taken such interest in the photos I have posted within this thread and are having such lively and interesting discussions triggered by the photos; that's exactly the result I was hoping for when I created the thread; THANKS and keep the comments coming.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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I've not seen that myself with the 92 series running away. Have seen the 71, and 53 do that but the working shutter would shut the engine down. IIRC the 92 series did not have the shutter for the air intake incorporated.
The bad thing with those engines of any type running backwards is the oil pump is not lubricating anything. They did seem to want to start easy in either direction. I have a 6V-92TA in a 79 IH 4270 that has been in my family since new. It runs very well but the truck around it is beyond worn out. Easy starter when warm and does a good job as a "yard horse" for me. It starts cold but needs a "sniff" to get going under about 30 degrees. It was my uncle's lowboy tractor for a lot of years and always had good service. It was one of the "Fuel Squeezer" governor setups which was about a joke for pulling power so we did away with that back in 1980 just after the truck was out of warranty. Haven't looked back. We had the truck chassis dynamometer checked once and the engine was apparently right at 345hp and I want to say 1350 foot pounds torque but not very linear. Like most other two strokes it favored 1500-1650rpm minimum to operate at and deliver the best performance. The original RT-9509 Fuller transmission and 4.11 rears are still in it. It has always been reliable. I always found the two stroke engines easy to "play" with. Injectors, (fuel rate) and timing were easy to adjust and tailor to usage needs. A lot of the 92 series had more adjustability to the spray pattern than the 71 series had. For instance my 6V-92TA has 9B90 injectors installed. 9A90 injectors worked just a bit better for on highway use than the 9B90. Although the fuel injectors have the same fuel rate, the spray pattern was very different between the two series. The engine torque rise was much better with the seven spray holes of the 9B90 series as opposed to the five spray holes of the 9A90 series. I believe, (my thoughts only) the fuel atomization was better at lower rpm of the 9B90 series and there was less smoke because of this as the fuel was more completely burned. However, the 9A90 series in a line haul scenario seemed to be better with the longer legs and gear ratios of transmissions used on highway. Lot of "Cowboy's" out there that have to have the maximum power to the ground all the time and the 9B90 series worked well for that. Engines, clutches, transmissions, driveline, etc. were worn out faster too citing the heavy foot. I never was a line mechanic so never worked against a clock, nor had paycheck depend upon how much was accomplished. Therefore had the time to do maintenance and repairs meeting my personal schedule. I like cylinder leakdown tests for measuring internal condition of the engine as a single example. Lot more information gleaned of condition rather than a simple compression test. This is true on any engine. It takes more time to do these tests, but tangible results can be ascertained and tracked. Taking the time to ensure oil leaks are addressed is yet another example. We all do things differently so I'll not find fault in anybody's work. All you have to do is "Please the Owner" is how I operated on repairing anything. They're happy, I'm happy for the most part. We've all had our share of fuc* up's along the way too, (as I know I have) or wish we'd done something different. However printed literature, proper interpretation of that literature, and an open mind to other's input will take you far is what I've found over the years.
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BuckSkin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 577 |
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Tuesday_25-February-2025
Patiently awaiting her turn in the shop for an extreme makeover is Jones Transport Mack Cruise-Liner "Phantom 309" ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 32684 |
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Appears to be a little ignored, probably a parts donor machine.
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DiyDave ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 52933 |
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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BuckSkin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 577 |
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THANKS: and on the Porter Wagoner Show as well; I just wish it had a bit more volume; even at Max, I was straining to hear. I don't know whether you guys can see it; but, when you zoom in on the front, that truck IS #309. He said Joe "was a Big Man; about 210"; well, I never thought of myself as a "Big Man"; but, I was weighing some steel over at Sandusky's the other day and stepped up on the Fairbanks & Morse and she balanced at 222. I am never a weight conscious person; I just am whatever size I am; but, I have stepped on those same scales and balanced the beam at 268; so, I guess I could be considered as bigger than Ol' Big Joe. It wasn't always that way; when I graduated high school and for several years thereafter, I had to put rocks in my pockets to weigh 130-lbs; I lied about my weight and whenever asked I replied "140-lbs" During those years, I had a devil of a time finding jeans that would fit = 27x36. When I finally got up to 29x36, I thought I was a monster of a man.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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The "WS" series with a Mack engine was desirable for repowering B-61 series trucks citing the turbocharger placement on the engine. It made for easier CAC plumbing routing. The "cats meow" for doing this was the ENDT-676 engine, or the later ETAZ-673 series which was called the 300+ engine. These had the engine mounted air to air intercooler in a "tidy" package installed. Later variants yet included the E6-237M, and E6-300M which used the basic same CAC, but lessened the cooler core size by combining water to air, and air to air together in the same housing. Our aussie friends called these the "coolpower" engines.
This is a 350 Mack engine from a 79 Cruiseliner I've saved back to install into my truck: ![]() |
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 32684 |
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Can still remember diagnosing my First END for engine noise, had piston slap from excess wear so bad was able to be heard all across the Mack Garage in St Louis. Old DM Series Dump Truck(Early R Cab) with Steel Flat Fenders. Cracked each nozzle feed line nut and could almost feel the pistons twisting in their bores. Once heads were off found almost .060 wear Pistons to sleeves at just a minimal 87x,xxx miles!!! And the old brute was still making HP just with considerable blowby.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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Seen very similar to the same several times where I was working. All Mack fleet, all vocational, and many trucks had the "Stars & Bars" paint scheme of the early 1970's. Always had a fully rebuilt engine on a pallet, and another getting rebuilt on the stand. Several transmissions at the ready also. I didn't have time to rebuild both engines and transmissions consistently, so sublet transmission rebuilds, (for the most part). Brakes, clutches, driveline parts, etc. I did myself. Bridge crane made engine swaps quite easy as did a "pit" with a rolling transmission jack for Mack TRD series, and Fuller transmissions, with adapters to handle "Camelback" suspension and drives at the ready.
Was in the St. Louis Mack dealership many times getting parts for both my B-61, and several employer's trucks at the time, (early 1980's). Always received good pricing there as many knew my grandpa from when Monsanto had their fleet of trucks. Usually had stuff delivered but being from St. Louis originally, I usually made it a family visit when grabbing parts. Glatz in Decatur, IL was much closer but.....
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 32684 |
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Herb Talley, Mean little OLD Irishman was my Shop Foreman. He Started at Mack STL when they opened the shop New on Chouteau.
Edited by DMiller - 07 Mar 2025 at 9:50am |
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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I would probably remember some of the parts guys by name and "Herb" sounds vaguely familiar, but not enough to put a face with a name.
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 32684 |
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Short, Red hair, Glasses and always a Dip in a Lip, Slight Paunch for a scrawny little guy. YELLED Really LOUD when Mad!! We were Second Shift, always Beer After Work, bar just down Jefferson.
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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Want to say I remember him but it's a stretch. I was usually in during the day, or after dark in the winter months. I usually went right into the parts department. Was usually in a car especially during cold as the old GMC pickup I had never had a good heater to the feet.
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BuckSkin ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Location: Poor Farm Points: 577 |
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Tuesday_25-February-2025 January 1979 Calendar Line-up of Mack Trucks Thumb-tacked to the office wall at Jones Transport. Barely legible above the green tack at bottom-center of the photo "Mack Western Liner Series" As the calendars had to be created, edited, printed, and delivered to be ready to disperse the last of November/first of December, it is hard to imagine that these could truly be 1979 Model Macks; more likely 1978 Models. Left to Right: Mack Value-Liner, Mack Cruise-Liner, Mack Super-Liner ![]() ![]() |
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Codger ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Utopia Points: 2088 |
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Trucks in those days were not titled so much like automobiles. I've seen a Mack R-686 built in 1973 and not sale until 1975 and it be titled as a 1975 truck when it left the lot. That I have seen with my own eyes as belonged to a gent in the neighborhood that would buy suplus inventory and place it into service.
Not a lot of differences between years of trucks in the 70's until emissions regulations really started kicking in. Mostly trims, and ornamentation easily manipulated for the camera.
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