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Rod bearing question |
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5020 |
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The washer covers the top of the sleeve, holding it in place.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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The washer holds down on the sleeve so it cannot push up and down, I get that but I believe there's a flange on the sleeve that stops it from falling through the block downward
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5020 |
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Yes, there is a counterbore that holds the sleeve from going down. The washers are to keep the sleeves from falling out when the block is inverted to work on the bottom end or from moving the sleeves when you are turning the engine over to bolt in the rods.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 87651 |
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note the bolts/ washers holding the liners down while he measures the liner rise above the block face.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 87651 |
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Hunt, here is a link to Marvs page about rebuilding a motor.. He has plenty of photos and step by step.. You should read the entire post and examine the photos.. Its a excellent reference.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Ok, I see the confusion here...
I will be doing a in-frame overhaul kit most likely so no flipping over although thanks for tip and links fellas ( just what I needed) I have rebuild detailed book but they don't tell you tricks like this! I will update as I go along with engine overhaul. Thanks Matt |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21856 |
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If you install a new sleeve/Orings and do not bolt it down, when you install the new piston with new rings on it in that particular sleeve, the chances are very good when you rotate the crankshaft to install other pistons and rods the friction/drag of the new rings on that new piston in the unrestrained sleeve will push the new un-bolted down sleeve right out of the block, upside down or not.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Okay I get it I will bolt them down with washers on top Thanks for the tip fellas!
Once I pull the old sleeves out is it recommended to run a honing tool to clean up the block before reinstalling new sleeves? Thanks Matt |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 87651 |
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no hone... power wire brush, sand paper, etc.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Okay okay thanks
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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So I finally got the head off this evening, the radiator is shot. And odd thing here I drained the radiator out of the petcock and went to drain the block and nothing came out so I figured it must be empty after pulling the head and looking into the block ports they're still antifreeze in them almost up to the top of the block so I'm really perplexed how I'm getting antifreeze into the oil pan now more than ever. When I look at the head gasket it looks pretty much brand new. One thing I did find is the top of the piston on one of the cylinders looks like it was not firing because it's very clean compared to the other three. All four injectors looked very dirty so they will be going to get checked out. I will post some pictures here soon.
Do all cylinder heads have freeze plugs even diesels? Reason I ask is cuz I don't see any in the top of this head... Edited by Hunt4Allis - 15 Apr 2022 at 8:03pm |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 87651 |
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If the block is full of antifreeze up to the head gasket, then the leak was ABOVE that... gasket or cracked head.... the "CLEAN" piston , means it was leaking antifreeze into that cylinder and burning it..
no, not all heads have freeze plugs........ depends on the manufacturer.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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My workshop and believe I found the freeze plugs which there are three of. After wiping the top of it down and comparing it to another identical cylinder head online with the same stamp number it looks like this cylinder head has already been ground down and I believe it has multiple cracks going through the center of it. More to come...
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8613 |
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Water in the hole will steam the carbon off the piston
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21856 |
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Now, that the head has been removed, it will be difficult to pinpoint the coolant leak into the oil pan.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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The head is cracked and the head gasket was in good shape so I'd say the head is my issue especially since it does not leak out of the block as it still full this morning and it only seemed to leak when it was running (so under pressure)
![]() Edited by Hunt4Allis - 16 Apr 2022 at 7:29am |
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5020 |
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Most leaks occur when the engine is warm and the cooling system is under pressure. The fact that the block stays full when there is no pressure doesn't mean much. |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21856 |
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Maybe. Maybe not. You still have a "knock" in the engine to deal with.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Okay I'm replacing the sleeves pistons bearings and everything else anyway
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Watching the Pistons I rotated the belt by hand and as I went back and forth it sounded like and I could feel a tapping noise coming from the piston (I kind of ran out of time to look any further and I'm still trying to remove the oil pan that the wish bone is pinned through the oil pan) The radiator was leaking so badly that I don't know that it was actually holding pressure anyways to be able to decipher where it was leaking from...
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21856 |
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Rotate the engine so #1 and #4 pistons are at TDC and then keep rotating the same direction until they go down 1 inch. Take a hammer handle and push down on each #1 and #4 piston. They should not move at all !!! . Do the same thing for #2 and #3. Any piston that moves downward has a bad rod bearing or piston pin bushing.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Thanks much for the info,
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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I pulled all four pistons out today.
Piston that was in line with the cylinder head being cracked that I previously said looked really clean was where the knocking sound was coming from because the wrist pin had a ton of play in it back and forth and side to side (I'm betting that someone had this head already machined down after looking at it more closely compared to others that are new just because of what was ground off of this was a lot so maybe multiple times) at some point the head cracked and started leaking coolant into the cylinder which stopped the assembly from being lubed like it should be and or out the piston and wrist pin. One out of the four were tight. One was really bad and the other closest to this crack in the head was slightly worn with a lot of play in both of them compared to the tolerances that I see in my manual (I don't even need a micrometer because I would guess that there's a 16th of an inch play in the one wrist pin and a little bit less than the other one. I still need to mic all of the journals to make sure they're within spec but in general they looked okay and none of the bearings were spun at all. The crankshaft actually looks still polished on the journals. I need to check the main bearings with some plastic gauge, more to come. Thanks fellas for all your info! Now I'm shopping for a new head and rebuilt kit... |
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21856 |
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Side play on the rods/piston pins is normal no matter how loose. Place a piece of tape over each oil hole on the crankshaft journals or you will get DIRT in the hole and then a rod bearing will fail when you start the engine.
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8613 |
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I have used strips of old blue jeans or even a multi folded paper towel wrapped and taped around journals. Duct tape lives longer than masking tape.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Yes I see that now that all of them have side play but play in the circumference of the wrist pin in one of them was terrible and a little bit loose in one other one. Okay I will cover the holes up in the rod journals before pulling the sleeves thanks for the tip!
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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I plan on checking all of the main bearings with plastic gauge and depending on what I see I may spend new main bearings into it also while I'm in there. I do believe between the badly cracked head which was right above the worst wrist pin that I found both issues. One being how the coolant was getting into the oil and with the coolant going down on top of that head it probably prematurely worn out the wrist pin but I'm not positive as I'm no expert I'm guessing with the lack of lubrication and temperature differences that it wore that piston out quicker.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 87651 |
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examine that ROD and make sure it is not have a slight BEND in it.. That can happen if piston comes to the top and there is water in the chamber. ( not compressable)
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21856 |
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Pretty difficult to check main bearings in-chassis with plastigauge with oil on everything and the weight of the crankshaft hanging on the plastigauge. You can visually look at them if you like but cannot really measure them.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Ok thanks for info fellas,
I plan on rolling new mains in since I'm this far just for good measure(That's why I planned on plastic gauging them to try to get an idea if they were worn at all) appreciate it! Edited by Hunt4Allis - 19 Apr 2022 at 8:12am |
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