Panks broadening horizons
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Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95750
Printed Date: 28 Sep 2024 at 1:15am
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Topic: Panks broadening horizons
Posted By: mgburchard
Subject: Panks broadening horizons
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 5:43pm
In ability to make more parts like rods ,girdles machined parts etc . Help comes from mazak http://s738.photobucket.com/user/pankeyc/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140930_145009953_zpsf28d8efa.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> http://s738.photobucket.com/user/pankeyc/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140930_145015247_zpsef1001ca.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Replies:
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 6:09pm
| spam......reported. |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 6:27pm
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Gary in da UP wrote:Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 6:30pm
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Will you be selling rods and parts made on this machine? ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Bill_MN
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 6:33pm
 ------------- 1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 6:45pm
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Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 6:50pm
| IF mitch had the resources of NASA in his "shop" he still couldn't build a winning engine/tractor. So this topic is still spam. |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 6:54pm
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 6:56pm
So he works for free!! Or he's padding the price, using his employers resources (machinery and other employees) to make parts. Gary is correct, Mitch is no machinist. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 7:06pm
| With those machines you don't have to be a machinist just a programmer . Marty you should appreciate that being a internet builder and all |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 7:11pm
So there's no difference in price if a customer supplies their own parts or if they get custom made parts......you say they are free with purchase of a build. Sounds like a desperate cry for work. Myself, I'm pretty backed up and don't cut deals, I don't have to. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 7:37pm
| I don't think Mitch is crying for work . I think he is just going to let Ashbury and ray supply parts to engine assemblers that can not machine custom parts for any reason they may have |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 7:59pm
Somewhat true, but you still need to be above clueless Pank, which is where you are.
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Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:04pm
Well Marty when the only provable track record is 5 mediocre hooks and KABOOM! people just dont flock to that don't ya know??? I guess twin wire crank welding work has all dried up eh ???
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:07pm
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All my machines are CnC, also known as crank'n-crank. Butch, don't you rember pank telling us billet rods were no good, now he wants to pretend to make them. Picture of your Gleason please......... ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:15pm
| I don't think twin wire welding has dried up I think Mitch just advanced it being able to utilize another machine to make rods capable of using a readily available narrow automotive h series rod bearing instead of antique pricey over a inch wide tractor rod bearings |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:18pm
He advanced twin wire welding to be able to use another machine to make rods Eh? If you only know how STUPID that statement is, LOL You are even more clueless than I ever even thought you were Pank
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Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:22pm
Ya Marty, I think that was about the time Pank invented the cast iron forging also. I wonder if the TVA gives it graces to Pank taking pics at the machine shop instead of pushing the broom? |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:23pm
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:27pm
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Hey Butch, you rember me explaining to pank how a narrow crankpin would be stronger than a wide one, to throw those tractor rods away and use a nice narrow billet on max effort engines,,......he did listen after all. That is why I set my billet rods up with an H-series bearing.....but look out pank, the locating tabs are in different locations on the top and bottom bearing shells on the 2" SBC bearings. I'm not sure why but Murphy's rods use a different bearing insert, Buick I think, maybe the locating tabs are symmetrical on those. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:30pm
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:35pm
You're dead wrong, the welder has the same or less work to do....you weld the whole journal and grind into it. Weather you grind a .960" wide crankpin or a 1.5" wide crankpin the welding is the same, not more. The narrow crankpin is also easier to grind, less material to remove than a wide pin. The welding work could in a sense be less for the narrow crankpin, as the area built up can be tapered down to a lesser width. Thus giving less mass to the outermost part of the crank and in theory strengths it. Added strength from added material under the crankpin allowing it to be blended into the throw. Any crank grinder knows this, though the imaginary crank experts on the internet like you lank are, well,......clueless. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:35pm
Ya Marty but the famed Tenn Internet poster thinks that has been long enough in the past that everyone has forgot. and those tangs are there to keep the bearing inserts from spinning in the rod right Pank?? |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:40pm
No I don't rember, but I do rember pankey buying the engine and then whining that it was junk and selling the parts. It did have wide rods though. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:42pm
You didn't build that motor when it was winning Pank, everybody knows that. True story line is you bought a winning engine took it apart, modified a few things and on hook #5 KERRR---BAAAAM!!!! So much for twist,,, |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:43pm
herespictur http://s738.photobucket.com/user/pankeyc/media/06050009491.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> e of crank heres picture of natpa points winning tractor it came from http://s738.photobucket.com/user/pankeyc/media/photobucket-102206-1393204920047_zpsaf265f3a.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 8:51pm
Not to wreck the party, but you're dead wrong here pank. The narrower rod requires LESS welding. Please read my other post on this and explain why you say it needs more welding. I suppose if you welded the wrong side of the crank and de-stroked it, there would be more welding. But adding stroke means building material on the "top" side and cutting into the bottom side. With a narrower rod, the weld doesn't have to be as wide and can taper down leaving less welded material on the top side of the crankpin. Less material there means less mass and less negative impact on the overall strength of the crankshaft. The narrower rod allows a wider radius under the crankpin and more material of the original crankpin is allowed to blend into the throw, this strengthening the crankshaft even more. Your statement is dead wrong. You are clueless about crankshaft work. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 9:01pm
| You got to narrow journal up if you use a narrower rod if you plan on having any oil pressure . Pankey went over this when your pal Andy was recommending just turning allis crank down to farmal h rod diameter but the h rod is narrower. Butch sometimes Pankey says going forward is backing up tarbills motor did teach him a thing or three . one thing it had a large duration relative small lift cam from comp cams . didn't lug well at end of pu all but ran strong enough in the middle to get past everyone to be a points champ . so Pankey goes with more duration now and even though Marty says its all wrong well it got past two of his this year |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 9:04pm
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That's a pretty fugly crank in the picture there. There could be strength added by grinding a large diameter grind at a different stroke, thus grinding a large radius to blend the crankpin to the throw. Think of it like this, grind a 2" crankpin on a 6" stroke that's .960"/wide. Now grind a 3" diameter, or close to it depending on the material, with a huge radius on a 4.5" stroke or so and grind a little wider than the .960" crankpin journal. The grinding wheel won't hit the crankpin but will clean up the under side of the crankpin blending into the throw. I see work like in the picture from shops that cut corners. Sure its one more setup on the grinder to do the second grind, but its a way to add strength. When I end up with a crank like the one in the pictures, I tig weld up the "cheeks" under the journal and then have a friend re-grind it like I explained above. If I've got time tomorrow, I have a crank in the shop that I need to do this to, I'll take a picture and post, and I have one that's done right to compare that I can show. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 9:05pm
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That's a pretty fugly crank in the picture there. There could be strength added by grinding a large diameter grind, wider at a different stroke, thus grinding a large radius to blend the crankpin to the throw. Think of it like this, grind a 2" crankpin on a 6" stroke that's .960"/wide. Now grind a 3" diameter, or close to it depending on the material, with a huge radius on a 4.5" stroke or so and grind a little wider than the .960" crankpin journal. The grinding wheel won't hit the crankpin but will clean up the under side of the crankpin blending into the throw. I see work like in the picture from shops that cut corners. Sure its one more setup on the grinder to do the second grind, but its a way to add strength. When I end up with a crank like the one in the pictures, I tig weld up the "cheeks" under the journal and then have a friend re-grind it like I explained above. If I've got time tomorrow, I have a crank in the shop that I need to do this to, I'll take a picture and post, and I have one that's done right to compare that I can show. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Fields
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2014 at 11:23pm
| That picture of the crank is WRONG. It should be IN THE GARBAGE CAN. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 6:57am
Well I am certainly glad to see you finally come clean on that deal. Some day Pank, you just might figure out that is OK to not know it all, none of us do and it sure makes life's lessons a whole lot less painful when you don't have to get hit over the head to learn them. |
Posted By: cranky
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 8:33am
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many people have bought cnc equipment thinking well you don't have to be a machinist! well not only do you have to learn a new language you will also need to invest and become trained in computer aided design,expect to spend roughly $4000.00 on this software so you can develop a three dimensional model of the part. next you will need to invest in a computer aided mfg. software,expect to spend $15000.00 on this product so you can develop a tool cutting path.these two tools will require many hours of training and exercise to become proficient.now you should also have available software to evaluate your part design,finite element analysis to locate concentrated stresses,without this tool you may be creating a lemon and not even be aware of it! expect to pay upwards of $100000.00 for this technology and many people spend years in college to master this software. I am not trying to discourage you but as with anything there is more to this than it seems,there are many late model machines for sale because buyers were not aware of the knowledge required or other costs involved in this trade. I for one will be looking forward to your newly designed parts for puling |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 9:25am
| Fields How can you say that cranks wrong its a proven natpa points winner . cranky we went with mazak over others because of the language and have experience with mazak |
Posted By: mattb
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 9:59am
| the tractor in the picture don't have big enough tires on it to need more than 60hp to win looks to me |
Posted By: Larry(OH)
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 10:45am
------------- '40 WC puller,'50 WD puller,'50 M puller '65 770 Ollie *ALLIS EXPRESS contact* I can explain it to you, BUT I cannot understand it for you!! |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 11:07am
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 11:41am
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Several weeks ago, Larry asked for data on his camshaft. He still doesn't have any. Pank, you seam to have a hard time explaining anything or giving any hard numbers on anything. That's to bad, machining parts, building engines is precise work. Can you take time to explain how a narrower journal requires more welding as in your previous statements, or are you going to side step that one after you realized you have no experience or knowledge when it comes to crankshaft work. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 12:11pm
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Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 12:31pm
In case you're to inbred to know what you were talking about today, I saved it here for you to read again....readily available H series automotive bearing, .942 rod....sure you are now going to got to Farmall H rods in a defense that you know you are wrong. Nice try, but once again, you haven't any idea what you are talking about. Please tell us how this .942 wide rod is going to require more welding. Sorry any of the narrow rod bearings that are narrow enough to be used with any crankshaft radius at all are in the 2" to 2.100" diameter range to be used in a rod as narrow as .942". That's how it is my simple minded friend, the bearing has to be narrower than the rod to allow for a radius, or an undercut radius. To get into any of the automotive H series bearings, you will be grinding the original crankpin down in diameter enough that you won't need any welding, it will center the rod anywhere you grind the journal. If welding stroke, the welding work is less as I explained. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 12:44pm
| About .800 difference in width |
Posted By: Fields
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2014 at 8:54pm
| If planky. Has his hands in it. Ain't going to last. |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 5:54am
| I'm guessing we have it all wrong here, considering the fact that Pank now owns (supposedly) a machine that you don't have to be a machinist to run, my guess is, he's going the distance and will be sinking dies to have his own custom cranks forged, the Mazak probably has a button that says "special Allis crank" and another that says "please select a stroke" and then "Run" and viola!!!! out comes a set of dies ready to head to the forging foundry that will ship a completed custom cast-forged crank in a matter of days. Pank now admits to "not being a Machinist", he can add to his resume "not being a Die sinker" and with the help of Mazak language, conquer the manufacturing world and performance industry as we know it. I'm sure the TVA will give him a few days off in December so he can show his stuff at the PRI show in Indy. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 7:01am
Ken your jealousy of Pank's secrete forged cast iron crankshafts is showing.  Hey Pank before you vise up a billet in that Mazak I suggest you get very familiar with one CNC term,,,, CRASH!!! |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 7:18am
| I guess I'm just a little peeved that I went through a six year Apprenticeship, four years of College, and about a dozen Journeyman reviews to achieve Journeyman status, and Pank goes out and buys a machine that does it all for him..... I wish I had one CNC as smart as that Mazak is supposed to be. And I've seen all the "Programmers" who have no machine experience I care to see and the results of their efforts. LOL It reminds me of a IMTS show in Chicago a few years ago where Mori-Seiki had a forging die for a crankshaft on display, I was looking at it when a 30 year old Salesman approached me and commented on what a marvel it was and asked me what I thought about it. My response was that I was wondering about how many people in attendance at the show that day could produce this without a CNC machine, the salesman stated that this would be an "impossible task without CNC capability". I asked him how he thought this was done before the advent of CNC and received the "deer in the headlights look". Never did get an answer. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 7:37am
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Ken, Perhaps the Tenn wizzkids will have one of their infamous classes and invite us all down to learn how to push the correct buttons on the Mazak to turn out A-C pulling engines, 650 cubes. Be sorta like his crank balancer video class, push the start button, viola! balanced engine. We could share a ride if you want. |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 8:55am
| Butch Mitch didn't want to teach you how to balance he wanted to tease you and Marty after all if he had made a teaching video it would have had more YouTube hits than a slow talking yank and a Giddings |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 10:00am
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We commissioned the Giddings in the spring of 2014. Video is linked to several forums where people who actually do things can watch our abilities and decide if they want to ship work our direction. Current back log for a spot on the work table is estimated to be mid summer 2015. I judge the video's application to be a success. Let us know when you get the TVA's permission to use that Mazak and be sure to take a video, it will certainly go viral as the first hard evidence of Pank doing anything besides yak-yak. And while your at it point the camera at that twin wire Gleason that you own,,, liar. |
Posted By: mgburchard
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 11:41am
Butch he has done shown you he has a crank balancer ,grinder and press it would just make you more envious if he showed you the welder .its close to happening http://s738.photobucket.com/user/pankeyc/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo09301818_zps3eef6960.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 6:49pm
 ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 7:05pm
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I've seen all the "Programmers" who have no machine experience I care to see and the results of their efforts. Me too Ken. I worked with the company guy and our programmer setting up a new slant bed Okuma lathe one time. It took me 3 days to convince them that no matter what the claims were for the machine, you can't cut a 5/8-24 thread on a bronze casting at 3500 rpm. It worked great when I slowed it down to about 1500  I don't know if it is possible now but back in the 80's that top of the line technology couldn't do it. I really want to see that Mazak right after the first part is run thru it. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: cranky
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 7:25pm
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did anyone on this forum attend the balancing classes panky put on at his shop? |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2014 at 9:52pm
I gots pics ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 6:40am
| No Charlie, it's not possible today, contrary to what the salesmen will tell you, I can recount many times when we have had a new Whiz come through the door with big claims, only to be sent packing when he can't back them up in the real world. There have been improvements and I have seen some impressive things develop, but the steps are small. We are entering a new phase of machining where the story seems to be small fast cuts, Haas has been the biggest contributor to this train of thought, mainly because the machinery they build isn't substantial enough to handle deep heavy cuts. At the end of the day, moderate speed and maximum depths of cut will win in the race to move stock, especially when cutting tough materials. We have both extremes in our shop, I have a Hurco with a work envelope of 16 x 30 x 18, and a twenty year old Monarch with roughly the same envelope, the Hurco weighs about three tons, and the Monarch weighs ten, guess where the pre-hard material @ 38-42 Rc gets machined? |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2014 at 8:11am
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Yep, working with stuff like hastelloy, or any other exotics is about the same. Take fast light cut and burn up tooling all day or snag a chunck with a moderate speed and good feed and get the job done. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |