Allis-chalmers 220
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Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83649
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 11:20pm
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Topic: Allis-chalmers 220
Posted By: shaunAC220
Subject: Allis-chalmers 220
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 11:05am
hey guys i'm new too pulling. I grew up running Case IH equipment in southwest Wisconsin, my dad grew up running Allis Chalmers so when i told him i was interested in pulling he automatically went out to Iowa and found two 220's one which i bought and the other he bought. but here's the problem I don't know where too start. i want to run in the "farm class" I put a new injection pump on it (biggest rotary i could get and i sent it in and got bigger springs and counter weights new injectors i believe they are .20 (i think) i put a fuel pump on that gives the fuel about 12 PSI to the injection pump i need some more suggestions!! By the way i'm 20 years old, so i'm not made of money Thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 11:57am
| Your information is pretty vague, at best. Your injectors might be .020", not .20 (which is nearly 1/4" inch... and how many holes do they have?? Who did your injection pump work?????? and how many cc's of fuel were you told it delivered?? Did you change the drive shaft for the injection pump?? if not, there is a bigger/better pump than what you have, so yours isn't the biggest if you have the stock driveshaft. You say nothing about a different turbo. There are big improvements to be made there. You have done nothing about the clutch ?? What weight classes are you running??? Have you even pulled it yet ?? What are the Rules you will be expected to deal with ?? like speed limit, RPM's, tire size, weight, etc etc etc. |
Posted By: shaunAC220
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 1:51pm
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yeah i know, sorry about that! and you're right its .020 and i believe 4 holes. my cousin works at diesel injection service in Madison so i have been giving all my work to him. not sure on the fuel right now, i called him and he was going to talk to the guy that did it for me. and i was was really interested in a new turbo but i was nervous that i wouldn't get all my power under it and i would snuff it. so i was thinking somewhere in the lines of putting a bigger compressor wheel in instead. and no i haven't touched the clutch, i was gonna wait and see if i slipped it first. for the class i'm hoping to get down to 9,000 is so i can be competitive. and no i haven't pulled mine but i have pulled my dads. mine has too be over hauled. long story short, put the new pump and injectors in, put it on dyno and it built up enough pressure in the crank case too blow the oil cap sky high. and for the rules their really isn't any other than it has to look like it can go to the field after the pull. speed limit is normally 10 mph and supposed to be 3000RPM but hardly enforced. the pulls around me are based on who you know for having rules enforced
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 2:01pm
| Soooo, the 220 I used to have would run 6th gear in the 11,000 pound class with 20.8 x 38 radials and at 3,000 RPM with 10 MPH top speed. Always figured it was around 375 to 400 HP. I wouldn't think it could have handled 7th gear at 9,000 lbs, but surely a gear between 6th and 7th if there wasn't a speed limit. What gear are the best Farmall 1066's running??? That is a measure of how much HP you're going to need to be competitive. Don't waste your time and $$$ trying to change your compressor wheel. Get a good modern turbo. Your clutch will not hold much over 250 HP depending on its condition. |
Posted By: shaunAC220
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 2:19pm
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thats what i'm running for tires as well. and im not too sure about the 1066's but my buddy runs in the 9,000 pound class with a 966 he has a 466 block in it with a stock pump and he runs in 2 high. he does alright but hes not over the 300HP range yet. For the turbo do you think like an hx45? and for clutch do i go with a big single or double disk? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 2:54pm
| 6th gear will compare well to the High 2nd on the Farmall. Stock clutch disc with 4 pads only (not 6 pads) and extra springs inside of the existing pressure plate springs. Absolutely no need for a double-disk clutch in this application, unless you want to spend $$$$ uselessly. I used an HX-50 turbo, so I'd guess an HX45 is a bit smaller. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 3:09pm
| Your fuel delivery needs to be more than 300 cc's. |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 5:35pm
| No such thing as an HX45 that I know of. Goes from HX40 - HX50, 52, 55, 60 and up. In my mind you are needing somewhere between a 40 and a 50. Something with a 2.3 - 2.4 inlet with a 2.4 - 2.6 outlet. Borg Warner has a nice, small S300 turbo in this category also. Intercoolers are awesome if you can use them. Cheapest HP ever. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 5:55pm
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I know you are new to the AC Forum. You have 2 of the most knowledgeable guys on this forum talking to you (DrAllis & O.P.S. Heads). The only guys you are missing is InjPumpEd and Wi50. IMHO, these are four of the biggest contributors on this forum. Although I am usually lurking, I have learned a lot from these four guys (and a few other guys that really know their stuff!) We sometimes take you guys for granted, but thank you for sharing your knowledge guys!!! |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2014 at 6:16pm
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I will say this, at least it sounds like you are in a situation where you can compete with what you have to work with. Some day there will be some cobb roller with a Farmall that will install a 500 plus cc pump and run in a gear that is flirting with road gear and the party might be over. Until then you should be able to run with any IH in high 2nd. Something else that if you can do yourself doesn't cost much is a light port job on the cylinder head. Practice on a junk head if you have one. No big reshape here, just knock the bumps out of the valve pocket area so things are as round and smooth as you can get them. Be sure the short side radius is of a nice consistent shape. Do a nice valve job. No crazy valve spring pressures. Also, when you overhaul it there is no need for new pistons and sleeves. Find nice, used parts, clean them well, and assemble them with new rings and you are good to go. D.I.S does good work, but talk to InjpumpEd. He can make a pretty juicy Roosa Master. Good luck. Nice to hear of a young kid wanting to do it. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 9:05am
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I'd like to see what DIS did for your pump work. They are a great fuel shop for stock products, but when getting into specialty stuff on Roosa pumps, I just havent been impressed. I have everything on hand to rebuild your pump into a .450 h & r pulling pump. 4 X .020 injectors will be enough for it, but I always go to .024, for my 400cc Roosa pumps. You'd also need .093 ID lines which come from DIS. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: dbounds
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 9:41am
| first, it's going to be very hard to get a 220 to 9000 lb. 11,000 would be better suited to keeping it "farm stock". A 220 is a little heavier than a 210. Our 210 Agent Orange has been "heavily" stripped to get to 8500#, not sure what weight class Injection Pump Ed pulls his 210 in but dought it is 9000. Second as Ed said be sure you go with bigger injection lines or you will seize that 450 head and have an expensive door stop when done (got one). Third, do some research before you buy a turbo ( and you will need to buy one ) as there are some that will work good for your combination. Call Ed or some performance shops for oppinions and get a few oppinions. Good luck Doyle |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2014 at 12:59pm
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My 210 is run in a 12,500 2hot2farm class. I still have pto, and rockshaft, but 3pt arms are removed for wheelie bars. With no weights my 210 weighs 11,000. Early 220's had a solid cast front support, it's very heavy at 800+. All 210's have the hollow front support, and after the 210 came out the 220 went to the hollow support also, so I've been told. It would be very difficult to get a farm stock 210/220 down to 9000. Most farm stock classes don't allow stripping down larger tractors. Light classes are meant for smaller tractors. 806,4020,190XT would fit right in a 9000.
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: shaunAC220
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 6:23pm
thanks for all the very helpful advice everyone,you have no idea how much i appreciate it!! I still have some questions though. i have found it really hard to find any performance parts for my allis..where do i go or talk to? my concern about buying a turbo is if it fits or not and its hard too tell by just looking online. 
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Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 8:54pm
| Any turbo you buy that will be good for the job will take some fab work to make it fit. Nothing difficult, but you wont find a direct bolt on that runs good. If you stay with the stock 426 bore and stroke, the only real performance parts you will need would be the fuel system and the turbo. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 9:46pm
| The turbo choice you make depends a lot on how much fuel you're giving it. You haven't told us how many cc's of fuel your pump is set for or the exact size of the injectors. Your description of "biggest rotary I could get" doesn't do much for me when it comes to fuel delivery. |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2014 at 10:03pm
| You picked the worst of the hundred series to build a puller, its just too heavy. Mine weighs 12,200 on 20.8-38s with no fluid, no weights, no driver and not much fuel. It has the early front bolster. Thats a long way to go to 9000. |
Posted By: timmypuller
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2014 at 1:30pm
| i know a lot of these guys don't like them but a 3lm with a 2.30 inlet will bolt to your stock exhaust manifold and should cost around 200-300 dollars with exchange. i have one on my d-21 and with a 3000 rpm limit ,450 head ,big lines and my injectors lasered to match by st joe diesel it shows between 40-45 pounds of boost in 6th gear. there are probably better turbos but if you're on a budget this one has worked well for me. also it's not all about horsepower. good tires , hitch and balance make a bigger differance than what most people think. my brothers and i have won against bigger cubes ,bigger pumps and bigger turbos because our opponents machines are not putting their power on the ground. my d-21 weighs 7500 lbs. with the driver and no weights in this class and 6 out of 8 hooks this year took 1st and i think took 2nd the other 2 times.this tractor balances well. do the rules say stock or stock appearing frames . those rails can be made out of lighter steel or aluminum and painted to appear stock, that heavy cast that they are talking about can be a box made out of 1/2 in. steel and lose that heavy 220 wide front and replace it with a 200, 190, 180 or even a 170 wide front. pressed steel wheels on the back and you have a light weight 220 . it all depends on what the rulebook says you can do |
Posted By: Nick So. IN.
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2014 at 7:25pm
| We had an S400 2.5 turbo on a case 504. It was a good turbo for an entry level one. we got about 200 hooks out of it with no water injection which is what killed it. I can't remember what we paid but it was in the $600 neighborhood. |
Posted By: AS185
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2014 at 4:59pm
| My 220 weighed 8,500. 20.8×38. Front cast around radiator. A-pump @ 400cc, H2 holeset charger. I ran 7th gear in 9,500lb. Class. |
Posted By: AS185
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2014 at 5:03pm
| Dennis @ Fair valley would be my suggestion on help. |
Posted By: shaunAC220
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2014 at 11:00am
| i should have cleared this up before i got my injection pump built as big as i could and still be able to turn it back down to stock. its right around 200cc's of fuel. you guys think i need more?? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2014 at 11:39am
| Yeah, about 200cc's more would be real good. You need a "pulling pump" and a set of "pulling injector" assemblies. Just swap them both each Summer for pulling and then swap back for fall farming. Turbo could also be in the same manner.....puller turbo and farming turbo. |
Posted By: 2wise4agm
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2014 at 6:21am
| Just a little info for you here. I have a 200+cc roosa pump on a 301 in my 190 and I'm not near the hottest thing in the farm stock 7500 and 8500 classes. I would think you would want more than that on your 426. |
Posted By: shaunAC220
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2014 at 12:45pm
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i have no problem turning it into a full time pulling tractor. its what i bought it for and my dad bought his too look at. there isn't much need for one on our farm. ill talk to my old man and see if i can swap my pump and injectors for his and start over. |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2014 at 8:20pm
| If you are going to turn it into a full time puller and the rules will allow it, go to an injection pump that will allow you to grow as time goes on. I suggest a P series pump again - if rules allow it. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2014 at 11:55am
This would be my suggestion. And lots of the shops mentioned have kinda forgotten about the Roosa puller guys in the name of growth. There's a lot left on the table. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
shaunAC220 wrote: