Man O Man did AGCO hire people to talk us down
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Topic: Man O Man did AGCO hire people to talk us down
Posted By: ACD19farmboy
Subject: Man O Man did AGCO hire people to talk us down
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 8:37pm
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Boys i need help... i am trying to fight the AC-Orange Finger battle on FaceBook and at random this guy pops up with a bunch of BS he says he has been waching us here and says that "the kid" which is me 15 needs to quit winning and on and on he probly will see this to but i just thought that you guys might want to read what he said to me.
Hello everyone, once again, I will make an appearance on this wall (It seems like it is becoming more and more lately.)
Disclaimer: AGCO you don’t have to agree with this one… Cordel or "ACD19farmboy", can you do me a favor? Log in to the AC site, and tell the kid he is full of it. (I don’t feel like creating a log in to another site) There were oranges, but it quickly became a game for the AGCO employees. People not only set them in different places, they also handed them to the representatives. The people working the booth should be thanking the “orange crowd” for helping create a little fun during those long show days. It is probably not that AGCO doesn’t care, but this just wasn’t that good of a stunt. And let no one who reads this think that we are talking about a lot of occurrences. The entire thing was minimal, and was not even a factor a NFMS. I am also betting that the only one heated was him, his dad drug him away because he was embarrassing him in public. ... See More You and some others keep asking AGCO to respect the AC brand legacy, but not a single one of you can express your wishes in an intelligent way. All I read sometimes is whining like a bunch of 4 year olds that just had your favorite colored blanket taken away. I have said this before, but I fell I should repeat it. I have not seen a single place where AGCO is trying to remove the legacy of the AC line. That legacy will always be what it is, an amazing history of innovation. But again they are not trying to get rid of this, if you have seen documents stating this please show me. Heck if you are honest with yourself, there hasn’t been an AC tractor in many years. The orange tractors are just a Massey with orange paint and an AGCO decal (same could be said of the challenger version). And if you break the tractor down to functional areas you will see Fendt, SISU, Valtra, and other additions. But no, all we get to read is complaining from AC fans that haven’t purchased a tractor in years and fail to show any type of support for the AGCO line. How in the world do you expect a company to keep a line going if the sales are just not there? To me it’s obvious why Massy was chosen, because when it comes to world wide, none of the other brands can compare to the sales. And I am guessing the Challenger line was kept, because AGCO has been working diligently with CAT dealers to set up a dealer network. The new network in combination with the already established AGCO network is supposed to rival Deere’s support once fully trained. When you want to be the big player, you need to go head to head against the other top company. From most of the farmers I have spoken with, dealer support is one of, if not the most important thing when purchasing new equipment. Reliability and cost are usually what follows. I think the lowering of part counts, paperwork, and the overall overhead costs, by removing multiple color lines, is just plain smart business. And it should help keep the costs of the products from growing any more than the normal inflation or innovation dictates. Allow those newly freed resources to be used to create a reliable and great performing machine for years to come. You also should try to remember that AGCO is a company, a very large one actually, that needs to make a profit to stay in business. In large corporations like this USA is not the market, the entire world is! (Now I only talked about the bigger lines of tractors and didn't give too much to Valtra or Fendt. They are there own models and have their own markets. Some day I might comment on them, but this is already too long of post.) In conclusion; Cordel and some others, please keep the whining out of future posts for the rest of us that really don’t want to hear it. Let’s try to keep this wall as a friendly gathering of people from all walks of earth that share a common interest in AGCO. Thank you .......i just want to knock the snot out of this guy!!!!
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Replies:
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 8:54pm
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He's just some corporate piece of ______ (fill in the blank). Trust me, I live with them all the time. And some of the points he makes are straight form management class 101, but a lot of it is plain BS. The thing with most business people is they have no clue of anything about manufacturing. I live with these too good to talk to you snobs every day in class in a school this corporate snob might have heard of, The Wharton School of Business. Fortunately for my sanity, I am in a dual degree program for Mechanical engineering and business, so I have actually learned something practical and not complete boloney. I hope he's following this thread, because I'd sure love to discuss some business with him, in addition to how horrible CAT dealers are for ag dealers.... I'd like to know how AGCO's business structure's set up? It sure doesn't fit into the normal regional division structure or matrix structure most global enterprises find themselves in. Maybe, just maybe, the wonderful management there has made huge strides in business management that is too new for the Universities to even know about?! Hurst PS, if you're reading this, e-mail is nuckolsa(at)wharton(dot)upenn(dot)edu ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 8:59pm
| Well,he shows his ignorance when he claims the tractor is a Massey...just about as much as it is an Allis.Don't bother with him.Can't you tell,he's smarter than us two put together,all business minded and so on.There will always be elitists. |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:02pm
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Tell me about it. It's really funny sitting through finance and accounting classes being an engineering student also, as those people have no math background whatsoever, not to mention absolutely no practical application of anything! Sure, they probably got an internship at some private equity firm or bank as a teenager, but wait, what do most economist blame for sparking the current recession??? lol Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: JeffHillNC
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:04pm
| I believe this is from an old Jerry Clower story "its obvious he is educated beyond his intelligence level" ie a mouth piece for someone else. |
Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:05pm
| I am jumping in on this fight on facebook right away. |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:10pm
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I may do the same. We'll see how many people come to his back... If this is such a wonderful decision by AGCO, surely he'll have an abundance of supporters... Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:26pm
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Guys and/or gals,
No need to go on Facebook, i will come to you. I am glad Cordel posted my comments on here. I am not in business, not hired by AGCO to fight you, or even claiming to be an AC historian. If anyone can prove me wrong and produce documentation about AGCO trying to get rid of the AC legacy of innovation, I will gladly accept the beating and skulk away. Also someone please prove to me that the orange AGCO tractor we see today is not a Massy and a combination of many of the AGCO parts, I would love to see it. I called it the way I seen it. If that is wrong prove it.
Also, hurst when you finally finish the ME classes (like I did), I hope you like the field as much as I do. Good luck with all your classes, i hope you do well and succeed.
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Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:32pm
| My post is finished. Someone please read it and tell me what you think. It is under the same reply on Cordels post. |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:40pm
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I read it and it is very good. But I still don't see where you are getting off calling me a corporate AGCO bigshot. Definately not me. I still don't think you proved the AGCO is getting rid of the legacy. I say this because I can to a google, bing, or whatever search fight now on Allis Chalmers and I get tons of information on it. That is my point they can never take this away, especially with the internet. There is information everywhere and I think AC fans should be proud of it and not tarnish it with stunts and name calling. (Please notice I have not done that) |
Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:51pm
| They are breaking off, what I would call, all ties to the brand. That is what we are upset about. |
Posted By: r chancellor
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 9:54pm
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Hurst, I'm sorry to hear you have had a bad dealing with a CAT dealer. I'm sure there is a bad apple out there , I see first hand how my customers {AG AND DIRT}are priority number one at our company . ------------- 66 190gas, 49WF, b1, b10, 37WC, 48WF, B,C, 3 WD'S 66allcrop, 350chevy powered WC |
Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 10:06pm
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I hope mine is a rare occurrence, but there are a lot of these CAT dealers turning over some big deals out there that don't feel like they need to waste their time for someone coming in about buying an AGCO part. They just push you away and tell you to get it mailed in from the AGCO dealer. Steffensen, I'm glad that you're not one of the corporate types. I have come to despise business with a passion the longer I have been around the people in business school. ME has been a much better experience than business school, but the value of a business background keeps me going after the dual degrees, as it sure gives you a boost out in the real world. In addition, I feel business is very important for an engineer to understand (even if it makes me sick to my stomach to see how some people in my classes act, knowing they will be people I may be working with later on in life :-/). Knowing that you're not just a business person is nice to know, as I have lost a lot of respect for some of those people. I have to give you credit for joining the forum, as most people would not have done what you did, and instead just watched from the sidelines and post on facebook. I guess we should say welcome to the forum, even if the circumstances are somewhat rough lol. Hurst ------------- 1979 Allis Chalmers 7000 5800 Hours |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 10:24pm
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Hurst, I thank you for the welcome and think the business side will treat you well in the engineering field. With the way most companies are always trying to cut costs, it helps to have a little "bean counter" in you.
I do want to clafiy: This was my comment about CAT. "AGCO has been working diligently with CAT dealers to set up a dealer network. The new network in combination with the already established AGCO network is supposed to rival Deere’s support once fully trained." I guess I have had good luck with dealing with CAT dealers (non AG), but think that once everyone gets trained up they could easily compete with Deere. Your comment about them is something that needs to be worked out with the training. Some of the CAT dealers I know are all about providing the best service they can, and would hope it carries into the AG side.
Morton,
I understand they are cutting ties with the brand, but the more I read comments on this site I see how unhappy people are with AGCO period (not just because of the orange loss). Shouldn't you all be happy that AGCO will no longer be as you say "tied" to the brand.
We also should realize that this is a world wide company and not just a US company. And it doesn't take someone with business classes or degree to realize there is a much larger pool of money world wide that needs to be catered too. And they have made their statement that the money is out there with Massy and not in the US market with the AGCO. Especially with the challenger brand staying, but that just ties into my CAT dealer comment.
And again, I am not an AGCO coporate bigshot! I am not a hired gun to battle with you. I just got tired of seeing posts that seemed childish and responded. I have never even seen their corporate offices or all their factories. Have a good weekend and it has been interesting to chat with you.
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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2010 at 11:18pm
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steffensen, I understand AGCO is putting AGCO badge on MF tractors now. I also understand why keep so many brands out there. I don't understand why AGCO wouldn't just put AGCO on it's tractor and provide it in multiple colors like they do Valtra? If they want to keep the MF and AC and Challenger and White and Oliver, etc. crowd happy they could have an AGCO tractor brand and paint it different colors, like Valtra, and put a different sticker on each one like AGCO/Massey Ferguson, or AGCO/Challenger or AGCO/Oliver. They would have ONE brand along with Fendt and Valtra. Why not do that? Their working so hard to create a Challenger brand wouldn't it be easier to create an AGCO brand like that? Why would AGCO offer a full line to Challenger, from the get go, but not to AGCO? I am one of those "few" people who bought and supported AGCO equipment because to me it was the Allis Gleaner corporation. I don't own much just an RT100A, Sunflower no-till drill, ST subcompact with loader/mower and AGCO tiller, AGCO blade, landscape rake, rotary cutter, etc. I was planning on getting AGCO hay equipment this year but not now. I've heard from dealers that in the larger tractor segment AGCO orange ones outsold Challenger and MF 4 to 1 in North America is that true? Your right on dealer support but a lot of us drove a long ways past a lot of other dealers to get to an AGCO one because it was orange. You shouldn't want to be like Deere. You will not beat Deere but Deere might beat themselves. AGCO started as AGCO-Allis and sold a hodge podge of tractors and people bought them because they were orange. Those farmers helped build AGCO so that it could be what it is now. They'd even buy the Deutz tractors painted orange but not when they were green. I'm sorry. My thoughts are hodge podged tonight cause it's late and I did taxes all day. The bottom line is that what AGCO is doing doesn't make sense unless you put shields on the side of your head and look down a very narrow path. Why does what I'm saying, about the colors, not make more sense that what AGCO is doing now? |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 5:40am
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Sorry, I do not have anything to do with agco's business decisions. Cordel is making false claims in the title, I don't think he figured I would actually come on here and let you all have a shot at me. I wish he would post to edit it. I cannot tell you why agco won't provide it in multiple colors. Might because of part count, from an engineering side with multiple plastic colors you have a nightmare of blueprints/drawings and other part numbers to create and manage. Its just not quite the same as just the paint color. From my experience this tends to decreases overall part use (volume) and drives costs up on each part. It might work for Fendt or Valtra becuase they are already a little higher in price and don't seem to be pushed much. Also, I can not tell you why they are pushing the Challenger line or verify the 4:1 sales. I respect you are one of the "few" people that support the company. My original rant was because I was not seeing posts from people like you. I was seeing posts that were from teenagers that hadn't purchased a single thing. If I was to guess to why the Challenger was pushed and a full line was offered, it would be because with the purchase of the brand from CAT. There might be an agreement. Who knows??? Also, I don’t think the AGCO brand is on any of the tracked tractors (established by CAT) or the big articulated 4wd. If those are included, the overall tractor line becomes larger on the challenger side. Maybe that had something to do with it? Please stop referring to agco's choices as mine. It is not me that wants to be like Deere. I just plain old assumed that. But when you read the farming articles and in a lot of areas just talk about Deere's service and all you seem to get is that they are the gold standard. (Except for a recent article I read that talks about them cutting long time dealers) And we must face that, Deere is the market share to take in the US. In the non-AG field I would say that CAT is considered the best and maybe that’s why they are tied so close to them. You have a very good post. Most of what I was hearing before all this started was that MF tractors were crap and how many names we can call agco's CEO. It was getting hard to read that when the tractors are the same with a different skin. (Then wouldn’t they both be crap) And I guess I am just getting too old for person attacks on an old man. |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 7:28am
From my point of view, I can understand a lot of the reason why AGCO is doing what they are doing: They wanted to cut costs and go with a brand that had the most GLOBAL recognition - That is Massey. Cant argue that the Massey name is more recognized worldwide than AGCO. But there were better ways to do this and no need
to throw the Orange followers under the bus. In this whole thing they have done several things to add salt to the wound and downright insult those who have supported the AGCO brand:
1 Denying they were ever "Allis Gleaner Comany"
2 Claiming only those who would never bought or would buy AGCO are the ones bitching.
3 Claiming it was to save money on emmissions testing
4 Having the dealers find out about it in the media
5 Saying a mere couple years ago AGCO was a "core brand"
6 Changing the AGCO symbol from orange to red.
I have my doubts that any of the above actions would help the "bottom line"
And I'm sure there are more others can add.
Certainly AGCO could find a way to respect the heritage while trying to cut costs and
better themselves globally. It seems to many here an attempt was never made or considered. It appears they instead have decided to disown their heritage and their supports instead.
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steffensen wrote:Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 7:53am
| When the gentleman points out that there's a lot of AC fans that haven’t purchased a tractor in years and fail to show any type of support for the AGCO line, he's right. The folks like Byron and ILG that have been let down on products they have supported have a legitimate gripe. Any argument from those of us that will never buy a tractor is pretty hollow for a business to consider. |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 8:09am
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I cannot and will not support all that agco has done with this and other choices. Just like I think the new "legacy" branding is the most disgracful thing I have seen in a long time. Slapping a new decal and offering a special medallion is nothing special. The only thing that might be worth it is the extended warranties that are supposed to come with it.
On #3: Not a good reason for dropping the color. But I would invite people to look up what the EPA is requiring all manufacturers that use diesel engines to do to verify the upcoming Tier 4a levels.
On #4: I was told there was a letter that was sent to the dealers weeks prior to the press release. If this isn't true, then shame on agco. If the employees of certain dealerships were not told by their employer, then shame on the employer.
And I agree there is legitimate gripes out there. But until this post got started I was not seeing reasonable conversations about it.
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Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 8:24am
| Just a quick comment from me. I have not purchased any new agco equipment, but dreamed of the day I could afford a brand new orange tractor. Won't happen now. Also, an agco dealer 15 miles down the road has so many parts for all of my old allis stuff, that's it's unbelievable. I hope that channel won't be gone. Darrel |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 8:33am
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Steffensen, thanks for getting back with me. I used to work, for a time, at a place where we designed plastic parts and the injection mold for them. I understand part numbers a tad and I couldn't figure out why AGCO changed like a little flair on a cab between models or something like that when they could've left them the same and saved cost. With creative engineering the part numbers could be minimized. I also used to own an AGCO LT70 that I had a barn collapse on. When the dealer got the parts in for the cab, (the plastic ones were the ones to break), all the plastic came in primed. I'm not up on weather the AGCO hoods are injected with colored plastic but I would guess that the outside is still painted otherwise it'd be nearly impossible to get the finish to match. Also, if you look at the new tractors they all have the black belly with the colored sheet metal/plastic. And, AGCO recently created those facilities to add options to the tractors once they got shipped over here. Why not send the tractor over without the colored parts on it and put them on over her made to order? Make it an option and charge $350 for it. I recently priced out a trade for my RT on a New Holland TV6070 and it was $350 to get it in yellow instead of blue. You can price out a Deere online. Their tractors don't have black underbellies it's all green and it's about $1,200 "list" to paint a Deere orange. So, AGCO already has a brand where they know how to offer different colors and make it profitable. They already have the facilities setup, sans paint booth, to make it a possibility. They already have an orange following and several heritage brands that still have some popularity. They've already converted or are converting the short lines to the AGCO brand. Their putting their AGCO logo on MF equipment now. So what's the big deal to make one AGCO brand offer colors and pump up their heritage. They could have three core brands: AGCO, Fendt and Valtra. Fendt is high end, AGCO in the middle and Valtra the low end. I know I may be wacked but I'm not alone. I traveled 1200 miles and made a family vacation out of picking up my ST machine last summer. Incidentally, I bought it after being reassured by AGCO's Todd Stucke at the end of June that getting rid of orange was just a rumor. The dealer/owner I bought it from had a painted AGCO tractor Oliver green because that was his first choice. He asked me the same questions I'm asking you, about offering color as an option, and I said Amen brother. I emailed the same thing to Todd before I went there. So, why is AGCO essentially shooting themselves and their brand loyal customers in the foot? Honestly I can only see two possible logical reasons and non of them have to do with reducing brands, epa emissions, etc. First is this move is definitely going to get rid of some dealers and I think AGCO wants a legal and easy way to get rid of some underperforming ones. They want to do this thinking that those dealers are taking business away from the "good" ones so if we kill them off the good ones will have more money to spend on advertising and training. That will not work as those dealers will only pick up other brands like Deutz and Kubota. Second is that AGCO has definitely gotten and European mentality and they like CAT over there and they like MF. They also think they can tell the North American customers what they need instead of asking them. And, Europeans like big looking companies hence CAT and MF. This second option lends me to believe that parts for the older heritage equipment will go away or go way up in price from AGCO so that they can "push" the old equipment farmers use into new equipment. AGCO spent a lot of money investing in the new AGCO DT tractors and "long live the family farm." They made AGCO a core brand only a short time ago. They've reassured farmers that orange will be around as long as they sell and they did outsell red and yellow 4 to 1 in NA. So why in such a short time has it all reversed? It seems like AGCO is rudderless with decisions being made at the whim based on emotion rather than logic. Maybe if I could get a logical reason why my orange equipment lost 4% of it's value overnight and why they've decided to dump their "core" brand it'd make it easier. I have yet to hear that logical reason at least one that is more logical than the one I, and others, have offered here and before. Byron P.S. - I was writing as you were posting. As I recall Martin R. announced orange going away a week or so before the dealers got any letter. Then the letter was posted online before the dealers got it. Then the day after the dealers got their letter, if they were one AGCO wanted to keep, they got a new contract for an all MF line. The dealers positive spin on it was that they would only have to pay AGCO once for advertising now instead of for both MF and AGCO. The dealer I talked to thought it would never happen and thought it only happened because Martin R. opened up his *** mouth. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 8:54am
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I've been following the conversations on here ever since this whole thing started months ago. I never chimed in because I'm really a "new guy" to the Tractor world, never purchased a new JD, AGCO, Whatever, Tractor to help support a manufacturer. Never grew up on a farm. (not considered a city boy either by any stretch) Out of all the Tractors that were built, I think they're all pretty neat, and have there own "coolness" about em', (especially the antique ones) but even when I wasn't into the Tractor world like I am now, Allis-Chalmers was always my favorite outta' the bunch and I always said "I'm gonna git' one of those one day" and I did. Now I have more than one, but that's another story. Anyway, I said that, to tell ya this. I will comment on a couple things in these current conversations, and one is about #3 listed about the EPA that Steffensen did comment on. He is correct on the EPA thing. The EPA is hard with the manufacturers about emissions. Being that I'm responsible at work to keep a fleet of trucks running, and running cleanly, I see and hear a lot of info on emissions. We do our own smoke tests at work to keep our trucks "legal eagle". Just bout' a year ago, I heard CAT does not build an over the road engine anymore. Why? The engines they build can't meet emissions! That's astonishing, but true from what I've read, and been told by my superiors that purchase our heavy trucks. The other thing I'd like to touch on is the "whiny teenagers" comment. You are absolutely correct in saying they never purchased any Tractors or equipment. That's quite obvious. Larry is also correct. A lot of us older guys haven't either. But one thing you have to keep in mind, that hopefully these "teenagers" are going to be our future, in AG, and we all can only hope that even though they haven't purchased anything YET, they may in the future, so I think its important to keep them in mind and listen to what they say. We can only hope that these young bucks can still fight to keep our Orange heritage going long after us older gent's are long gone. I hope things work out to the better for us Orange folk, but you just can't blame a lot of these folks for being sore. They just feel like they've been "dumped" after all the years that have gone by with their support. These are just die-hard AC people, and DAMN NICE people at that!! The responses that you're getting is only Human Nature, and its from the heart that pumps Orange blood...... Steve@B&B |
Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 9:17am
| In my estimation, this is not about which AGCO brand has the better tractor. For most of us who use equipment supported by AGCO, the dealer we use is of supreme importance, and often the reason we have that equipment at all. Dissolving the AGCO brand has caused a great deal of angst among us for a variety of reasons. Perhaps the most important is what many of us see as very poor treatment of the people who have bent over backwards to serve us for so long. My local dealer was shoehorned into a Massey-Ferguson contract right before the "end of AGCO letter" was sent, and was given very little if any explanation. A new MF sign and brochures just started showing up on his doorstep. Other dealers, many of whom are long respected institutions are not being given the opportunity to continue with AGCO in any capacity. Unfortunately it seems that AGCO has joined the John Deere bandwagon for "dealer consolidation", AKA dealer elimination. The difference is that AGCO really can't spare any dealers for ANY of their brands, as the network is so sparse that many folks don't even know where their dealer is. There have already been so many consolidations of branding within AGCO that many people are confused about where to go for service. This confusion has given rise to the idea that AGCO does not service its brands as well as Deere and CNH. More confusion can't possibly help this situation. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 9:49am
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Steve is right. I was a teenager when AC was sold to Deutz and grew up on AC. I was 34 before I could afford to farm. I kept up with AGCO before that point but didn't have the land or resources to afford it. Todays farmers aren't teenagers, because they can't afford to farm, but most are formative during that time. They have more testosterone than us older guys and haven't been tempered by life just yet but what they feel and have to say is important. If AGCO wants to be like Deere they better start listening to not only teenagers but tots. Deere has not won market share through superior product or dealers IMO. Deere has won through something you business guys should understand...marketing. They've created a brand and brand loyalty and they start marketing to teens and tots. My one year old son got a bunch of Deere toys for Christmas and he plays with them. But, my goodness, his favorite thing right now is that Kubota product line brochure. It's a riot to see him walk around with that thing. I'm now 40 and have around $100,000, (discounted), in AGCO equipment and AGCO couldn't care less about me. Funny thing is is that if I spent that money on AGCO stock I'd have roughly 4000 shares given that when I started AGCO stock was around $17 and I've spent that money over time. And, even though 4000 shares is a pittance AGCO would care about me 4000 times more than they do now. Does that make any sense? I guess in that business world of Wall Street it does but not in mine. |
Posted By: Ron(WA)
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 1:53pm
| Well. this is definitely not a tracors and farm machinery only subject, but does have some credibility in this compartment, so here goes. The AGCO decision was a decision arrived at by primariy yhe bean counters, and seconded by the bowers that pee, who only want to see immediate bottom line results, not long term effects. All emotional issues and hyperbole (i.e. Steffensen) aside, it looks to me like AGCO is is making a valient last gasp attempt to right the ship, by a common methodology (kill the goose that layed the golden eggs so that you can eat the goose now because you are hungry now), which only works short time. When this finally fails, along with the company, there will be more hyperbole about that, just to cover the truth. For example, we all remember when Agco first started business, saying " AGCO means Allis-Gleaner Company"?? Now they are saying they never said that, in spite of factual evidence to the contrary. Which brings us back to Steffensen, our current hyperbole fountain. It's over, let's get on with the funeral and the wake! We still have the original orange and all the memories, meetings, Go To's, etc, no one can take that away from us. time to thumb our noses at the ilk who wish to use their so-called grandiose ideas to convince us thier dea is better. |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 2:31pm
| Whatever AGCO does as a company, no matter if they're right or wrong, no matter what we think of the decision, no matter if they survive or fail, no matter how dumb or smart, it's their decision to make. All the oranges in Florida won't change that. Denegrating Mr. Steffensen for an opposing viewpoint won't change that. All the pissing and growling in the world won't change that, nor should it. If AGCO's Board of Directors support the decision, following through on the decision not only is AGCO's, right it's their responsibility. They own the company! |
Posted By: ac_bowsers
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 5:39pm
| One point I would like to make is that of AGCO's dealer net program. They admitted to me and others at the NFMS that it isn't what it could be, but also didn't feel they needed to do anything about it. We lost probably the best A-C/AGCO dealer in pour area a few years ago, it was a decision the family made, not forced out,or not selling enogh etc. They were the place to go for anything AGCO had or supported. They had parts!!! whether for an A-C,oliver,white,N-I, they had them. Now for us we either have to go north to the Wisconsin border, or southwest towards Galesburg. To me that is not feasible nor does it serve well to the customer. I don't see anything changing for their so-called rival dealer network once its ppoor word choiceed its "training stage" I could travel 30 minutes in all 4 directions of the comppoor word choice and run into a JD,N-H,Case-IH dealer, in our area how do they think they are going to rival that? Sounds like more BS to me. What I can't understand is how you could pull a line that carries your flagship name. There were a few reps at the NFMS that admitted what AGCO stands for ALLIS-GLEANER company. Take some notes AGCO people, a man from the N-H booth told me they can't make the boomer8n fast enough, and CaseIH is coming out with a new midsize compact farmall with the old circle A decal on the side. Maybe if they tried some of these strategies in the market a few more of us would have bought into the concept, just an idea. A midsize tractor truely showing A-C's heritage in the styling or model name would have been a hit. Now the only thing left orange will be slowly faded away. The other problem is at one time AGCO was big on Heritage Line parts, and was advertised well, A close friend of mine even had one of their Whites in one of the posters that was made, over the last few years that has faded to nothing, and prices seem to increase to ridiculous amounts. We are fortunate enough to have our own shop to keep up on the repairs of our Gleaner, but what really ticks me off the most is that JD is close, now AGCO is not, the whole dealer network is hog wash to me. And there are a few Gleaners and AGCO units in our area still today, mainly because at one time we were flooded woth true A-C dealers in the good old days. Those of us who are diehard A-C/Gleaner didn't move on to another color, we stuck it out through the Deutz merger, and hoped for the best. Now I think that this could really change people minds, I think Gleaner may survive but just how long and at what cost. Bottom line is How can you quit building a product that carries your companies name, to me it just does'nt make sense. Steve is right with his post, what we have now with our A-C heritage no-one can take that away, but right now I think if people want to make AGCO feel some hurt on their decsion, look for other sources for parts and service, it may be a difficult thing to do, especially to those who have been loyal to dealers for so long, but that may be the one effort that can make some noise at AGCO, Thats what we plan to do, unless it is absolutly nescessary and all other resources are exhausted we will purchase AGCO parts. Dad and I have already maade the decsion to quit buying OEM AGCO filters for our tractors and Combine, once we go through our stock of what we have in our shop, they will come from another source. Those who have given their input have spoken well with both emotions and facts, thats what make this country so great, this will be one more thing some of us can talk about at a show or to our future farmers generations to come, just one more piece of the puzzle the orange and silver line had to detour through |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 6:15pm
| This is interesting; someone mentioned that THE ALMIGHTY AGCO is trying to right the wrong; whoever this guy is \or just someone making folks believe he knows something ; yeah; everones got an opinion, xpress you,re self ; ITS THE WAY IT WAS HANDLED ; that gets me ; straight out lies to guys that support the company , the way I see it if you buy new equipment- or buy AC parts you support the Agco Corp ; Agco introduced the new line of Agco tractors , SAVE THE FAMILY FARM slogan or whatever , Agco brand is a core brand of the company ; We are building the Hertiage Parts Line with more !!!! NAW, we changed our mind ,just like that ; just buy a Mpoor word choiceey or a made up yellow Challenger brand tractor ; Thanks for all the support Agco and lies !!! The best one is dropping the core brand the company was founded on ; GOOD BUSINESS ???? You build on it !!!!! You make that brand the best of all , Agco has\will lose in the long run here, but its their fault !!! |
Posted By: tominpa
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 6:47pm
| It seems like the thing to do is tell them to sell their junk to the chineese. They've already gotten rid of White, Now their getting rid of AC. Me, I'm going all Green and yellow. I would'nt have a mpoor word choiceey on my farm or a fendt unless it was for resale of course. LOL. Our local Agco dealer witmers inc was out trying to sell me a mpoor word choiceey. I want nothing to do with agco except parts for ACs. and Whites. Aside from compacts your not gonna shove mpoor word choiceeys down out throats. As far as I'm concerned when it comes to farm equipment in this day and age its deere or fiat and like it or not deere is an American Company so I choose deere. I like the 8000 series AC And I like the Whites with the Cummins but Mpoor word choiceey got rid of the best thing they had. The 354 perkins. Just my 2 Cents |
Posted By: ryan(IN)
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 6:48pm
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Cleaning out the cabinets the other day we found a lot of old magazines. Mom was going to throw them all away. But i said look threw them first. One of them i found (which is on my desk right now was) a Agco Allis Landhandler. its got a subtitle that says "building on TRADITION" now ain't that funny AGCO now say that they never where the Allis-Gleaner company but its sort of funny that it say it right in the front of their old magazine. Yeah i a 15 year old kid but hope to be a farmer. have Allis Chalmers and i thought about Agco but i not so sure about Agco now. ------------- ryan 1984 8070 FWA,1979 7060,1975 7040,1971 190,1960 D-17D,1957 D-14, 196? D-19G, 1975 5040,1971? 160,1994 R62 |
Posted By: Denis in MI
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 6:49pm
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Funny what the forum sees as swear words like "Ma$sey" ------------- 1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14 |
Posted By: 7060
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 6:57pm
| I personally dont support agco other than buying my AC heritage parts through them. We have all hesston hay equipment though. Im neutral towards the Agco name staying and going though. I feel that the orange tractors today just dont compare to the original Allis Chalmers tractors. I like the looks of the RT and old DT series Agcos but I am not a fan of the CVTs or the Sisu diesels which is why I probably wouldnt buy one. Im sure the CVTs are okay, but I wouldnt trade a powershift for a CVT. I would rather the Agco company keep making the orange ones, and like said above why would agco drop their own tractor? Why did agco need to join with Cat for the challengers? My dad ran a new Challenger MT655C for a friend last spring and he said he wouldn't trade our NH with a powershift for it. There are far more orange tractors sold around here than the MF's. The local agco dealer is one of the largest in sales in the state. I just hope that the heritage parts line stays. |
Posted By: AndrewGubbels
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 7:02pm
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maybe it is a Mpoor word choiceey Fan!!! I am sure they are tickled!! Andrew ------------- Andrew Gubbels Gubbels Restoration |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 7:08pm
| Obviously, this individual is misinformed. The company is already taking a big hit on this, industry tractors sales are up and AGCO's are down - a lot! The Challenger plan is failing, already 4 CAT dealers dropping with substantial sources saying more to come. The Tier 4 argument has been debunked by 2 separate sources, (1 of them being powertrain engineering from a large engine manufacturer - hint: they use yellow paint) There is NO Requirement to test all 3 tractors separately if they are identical; a bald face lie from the top! What else are they lying about? Obviously lots! The AGCO tractors are Mpoor word choiceey tractors painted Orange: since 1994, there are no Mpoor word choiceey tractors, MF is now simply a brand name owned by AGCO corporation. Gleaner sales are being lost as a result of this and MF and Challenger combines don't make a blip on the radar, with Challenger in the high single to low double digit sales/year, but the big marketing dollars just keep flowing. This is a company headed for trouble! |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 7:09pm
| Well it has been an interesting one on here. But if I keep checking this and paying attention to the posts I will never get things done at home. There is snow to be moved and a honey do list to take care of. It was nice to have a decent conversation on this for once. I am sorry if there are still questions directed at me and I don't answer them. I did learn some stuff from the most of you. I hope that all of you can continue this type of conversation directed at the agco people. Good constructive dialoge like this always seem to be the best way. Probably signing off for good, Good luck!!! |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 7:40pm
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Nice one Steffensen. Join the forum yesterday, get everybody all worked up and pissed off, and then dissapear one day later to do your honey do list?? You,Sir, are a coward. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 7:49pm
| Okay allisfreakMN I will stay on, hadn't quite left yet anyways. Not sure how you can define me as a coward when I had the guts to sign up and let everyone take a crack at me. I do have things to do and just won't be able to check very much. But I guess that would make me a bad person, because I just can't be on here constantly. But feel free to call me names, say I am stupid, and whatever degrading things you want to throw at me. |
Posted By: LNG Luke
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 10:42pm
| I am not a teenager putting the oranges out I am 30 years old farm with my dad and uncle we own a agco allis 9655 (supported agco) was looking at a new LT95a with a loader, not now we dont know what to buy now, We dont farm acres and acres of ground so we dont get to buy new tractors all the time there is years between but its always been orange when we did, we have never bought a new combine because it is not cost effective they are wayyy to much money 200,000 plus we but we do update when wew can, we can buy a used combine and rebuild it for less than half the cost of new not a hard deccision, I WISH we could go and buy a new combine and tractor every year but we cant, we halve always supported are local dealr witch keeps getting further and further away ,do to bad company bussiness (deutz allis, agco) we drive 100 miles to get to one for orange tractors NOW WE CAN DRIVE 10 MILES TO BUY A KUBOTA |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2010 at 10:49pm
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I didn't say you were stupid, just cowardly for stirring the pot for one day and then saying " I'm probably signing off for good " the next day. You asked for proof of this and verification of that and then you don't give the dedicated members of this forum more than 24 hours of your precious time to say their piece? You don't have to be on here constantly as you seem to think to read the feedback. I think it's safe to say that most of the people on here have lives and jobs away from this site just like you do. I am not here to prove or verify anything to you on this subject one way or the other, I just call it like I see it, and I think it is really spineless how you want to drop out of the discussion so soon after virtually starting it. Now go work on your honey list before your wife kicks your a**. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 7:06am
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Sorry allisFreak, I may have made a poor choice in the leaving announcement. But I thought that me leaving would make everyone happy, because I don’t have a personal issue with any one of you. But maybe it is making people happy to have someone that they can attack and will talk back. But I would definitely rather have all of you trying to degrade me than to have “her’ mad at me. I only have to sign on to this site, but I have to live here.
Byron,
I guess I stand corrected on the plastics. I thought they were all thermoset with a base color underneath and then final painted to get them to match. But I am probably wrong. With that the only thing I have is the part number and extra drawing thing. But with your plan of shipping them and painting that could be handled pretty easy.
I can’t disagree with the rest of your post. It is very good and if I get time, and with your permission, I want to put some of it on the agco facebook site and ask for that logical reasoning.
Also, I have been trying to find where Martin R. did that. But if what you say is true. Just like I had posted previously, SHAME ON AGCO!
Agco may be making a bad business decision. But it is their decision. They also will loose some of the long time agco brand supporters. Their new models will have to replace all of original brand loyalty lost and attract some new customers in the US. One little bit of luck for them is that Deere is helping out, read an article last week about their dealers signing up with agco after they were dropped.
Disclaimer: This whole thing started because I came home in a bad mood, and ended up scolding a kid and some others on facebook for acting childish. He may be a perfectly good kid, and he does bring some good pictures for us to see, but I said something. I guess I hurt his feelings, and I am sorry for that. My response was posted on here saying I was hired to talk you down (definitely not), especially since I agree with a lot of what has been said. Then he challenged me to come on here to, (I am guessing here), take my beating from his “big brothers and maybe even sisters” like man. I did come and wife permitting will continue to come. I do ask that you give me the same respect that you would ask for in return. One thing I do not claim to be an expert on this situation, there seems to be plenty of them already.
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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 7:16am
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Steffensen, I guess you work for AGCO as a sales guy maybe but probably are a young guy I don't know. If I were you I'd be keeping my options open for a job as history repeats itself and AGCO is doing a lot of what AC did. AGCO is a big company but they aren't even close to being as big as AC was when they failed. AC had just spent millions on and came away with one of the best, if not the best, tractors in the industry with the 8000 series. Unfortunately bad management, bad timing and a bad economy did them in. AGCO just spent millions on the new DT, getting rid of orange in a bad economy can be considered bad timing and I think it's pretty obvious their management is subject at best. Actually history repeating itself makes me a little leery of CNH too. Back in the day White made a very nice tractor and it was profitable and doing well. In one of the saddest tractor company failure stories told White management took the money from the ag division and put it towards their White Road Boss trucks. When they failed the company failed. I seen CNH being a possible repeat of that. Only a few short years ago, maybe seven, it was rumored that CNH was in trouble and that maybe AGCO would buy up the Case/IH side. Now their parent company, Fiat, has bought up a troubled Chrysler in a troubled economy and is moving money from their ag ventures to that. That will be a loss for them most likely so with CNH fail like White did? Another thing that's scary about AGCO is that although their diversified internationally their not in equipment. Deere and CNH have the construction side plus make a lot of AG stuff AGCO doesn't like cotton machines. Construction is down now but it'll pick up before the AG side does I think. P.S. - typing at the same time again. You can post all you want on there. I haven't signed up for facebook or twitter and any of that new stuff. I have a rough enough time just keeping up on here. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 7:29am
Here is a couple of logos I came up with back in June of last year and I think I sent these to Todd Stucke but never heard from him.  I just came up with MF one.  While I'm at it I put Challenger in here too.  Or for consistency how about this?  Thinking on advertising it'd be easy to take a picture and make the equipment different colors to save on advertising costs. One dealer wondered why AGCO didn't do that already as they spent a lot of money shipping equipment from his dealer so they could take pictures of it. Anyway, I learned a program and did up a MF in a couple of hours. I'm sure a pro could do it faster and better.  I know they don't own the AC badge so the orange tractor would probably just have to be an AGCO like they are now. They do own the White, Oliver, MM, MF and Challenger names though so those could work. I know AGCO thought of doing it's implements in neutral colors possibly so they could match all their lines with them. They went away from that but ended up making the underbellies of the Hesston balers black during that time. But if you look at what CNH did with the New Holland line is they left the colors alone but put a little blue on the sticker. You could get away with that with Hesston, Sunflower, etc. with a little creative design. |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 9:03am
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Steffensen; I don't want you to leave the forum, that's why I called you out on it. You are right, there is nothing worse than a woman scorned. Welcome. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 9:07am
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I like them, well except for the 1st challenger, the consistant one looks better. With that pholosophy you could just as easily add Ag-Chem or Willmar to cover the applicator side.
And to your other kind of question, I am not in sales or marketing. Engineering is my field, and not the train operator kind. Even though that looks like a fun job sometimes. I am also do not deal with tractors. I am afraid I don't get paid even close to the salaries (probably need to add a zero or more to even start to be close) of the people most of you are mad at right now. Even though I probably put in twice the time.
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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 2:38pm
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Yes exactly. You have an AGCO brand with different badging. Nobody gets ticked off and you might even gain some old White/Oliver guys. All the tractors are the same except color and badging and a different color interior cab light bulb. All the advertising is for one brand with different color options like Valtra. You go from three to two now to only one advertising department. It's a win/win/win. You don't advertise AGCO/Oliver, AGCO/MF you advertise AGCO. When they ask what tractor it is it's an AGCO. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 4:01pm
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I've got to tell you guys that I am quite impressed the the ideas. honesty, sincerity and passion that has been written on this post. You all get an orange star, maybe two for keeping on subject and not doing much name calling! Two bad this board isn't the AGCO board, They would be flying right in a few weeks with all your leadership.
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 4:25pm
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I had another thought concerning something said earlier on this post about AGCO pushing out all but the big dealers. I was thinking about how here in Colorado at least, Kubota is doing just the opposite, it seems like they are trying to have a dealer 50 to 100 miles apart. AGCO does have MF dealers almost that close but I don't see new ones opening up or dealers of existing brands taking on MF. The front range of Colorado, a strip about 30 miles wide on the east edge of the mountains is where about 3/4 of the 4 million residents live, it is also the most irrigated area so I would assume that would be where the dealers should be. When AGCO dropped all the smaller orange tractors, the market for orange really dropped. Combine that with a dealer who never seemed very excited about selling orange and it's easy to see why AGCO orange tractors didn't sell well. The biggest MF dealer around sells a lot of Hesston big balers and other hay equipment, but they don't seem to move many tractors. If AGCO would allow any dealer to sell any color of AGCO tractors in their area, I suspect they could outsell CNH. One other thing to ponder tho, is now that Oliver and MM have been completely gone for 30+ years, would there be all that many people who remember them and are still buying new tractors? At least AGCO had the orange color for most of the last 25 years.
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 5:59pm
Yep they do own the company. And the customers have the right to take their dollars elsewhere.
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Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2010 at 6:12pm
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That is 1000% correct, that's how the free market system works.
It's unfair to the guys like Byron that have actively supported them in recent years buying AGCO tractors and equipment. Those guys have a right to feel betrayed. I understand why AGCO don't care what I think, I'll never buy a new tractor. It's too bad when they don't care what their real customers think. Time will prove AGCO management to either be brilliant or idiots.
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Posted By: ACD19farmboy
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2010 at 9:54pm
| rian could you post some of those pics of them Ads here on ac.com (i want to rub it AGCOs face on the AGCO/facebook page) thanks! If not thats ok..:) |
Posted By: EPALLIS
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2010 at 11:34pm
| Actually the AGCO shareholders own the company ALONG with the Board of Directors. As a shareholder I get alot of attention from AGCO officials. I essentially recieved no attention when I mentioned I owned 6 orange tractors. That is when I thought AGCO crossed the line, it wasn't my ownership of orange tractors and a customer of parts that got there attention, it was the title of stockholder. Now I'm sadly disappointed in what was the Allis-Gleaner Company. Perhaps someday, someone at AGCO will seize the moment and once again orange tractors will rise again from the ashes. |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 7:55am
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Byron, I was thinking a lot about our conversations while at work yesterday. Most people guessed that I worked at agco, but they were dead wrong on the job responsibilities. Like I said before, I am in engineering, but I don’t work on tractors (really don’t have anything to do with them). I have to go to a local CAT dealer to even see the wheeled ones. All of the views that were posted were my own and I don’t speak for agco at all.
I don’t consider myself the bad guy, but might be seen as one on here. But, please hear me out on these thoughts…
“All representation is not good representation”
Byron, I thought you had some very good questions and points during our conversations about the agco’s direction. And being an actual recent owner, you have a legitimate gripe. But before I joined this group I wasn’t seeing that type of information or even civil conversations about it. You must realize there are a lot of young kids/adults on this forum. And while I think they have good intentions, some are not representing very well outside this forum.
For example, if I see a post somewhere that has many misspelled words or is using what I call “cell phone text” (extreme shorthand), I will try to read it, but most of the time will just skip it. I am sure others do the same thing. When there is very easy ways to do a spell check, why should anyone give their time to actually look at the posts? Now don’t get me wrong, I spell things wrong too. But there have been some posts out in the public arena; where it’s hard to tell what they are saying. Also there is no reason to do the extreme shorthand on the internet. If I am not taking these posts seriously, there is NO way the folks they are trying to reach are either. This is not an agco thing, this is a business thing. The same thing could be for name calling or just overall degrading posts. Sometimes it can come across as very immature, and drives people away.
I think there are probably a lot of young men and women on here that somewhat “idolize” the older crowd. Whether it’s because they have grown up around you, wish they had the chance to rebuild a legend like some have, or it could be for many other reasons. But I still think they look up to guys like you in some way. With this they feel like they are fighting a good fight out in the public arena and fighting it for people they respect. But with all the good intentions I don’t think there are providing the representation you all deserve. These kids are future customers for agco and have every right to say what they want; but I don’t think it is the best interest of anyone to sling mud out in public. While I know it is impossible to control every single kid out there, lord knows I was uncontrollable at that age, I think some guidance from the older crowd would help them represent you better.
Not that anyone would listen, but if I could give any advice to the younger crowd, a few main points would be.
1. Watch your spelling and grammar: if you have to type things out in a word document and then paste from there, do it. This will help catch a lot of the very obvious things that will cause someone to ignore it. This will not only work for making a good post but it will help through out their high school, college, and future business careers. And I am not saying you need to be at the quality of an English teacher either.
2. When writing I suggest you pretend it is addressed to your grandpa or grandma. You can still ask the hard questions, but the way you will end up sounding in your posts will get attention.
3. Documentation and proof will get you a long ways. Have an actual copy of your information on hand. Just saying I heard this or that will get you somewhere at first, not in the end.
4. Stunts do not work and are too easy to manipulate. (Orange deliveries at NFMS) There would have been much better ways to represent the disappointment or anger that couldn’t be changed into a game. I don’t mean start a fight, but there are other ways to do this without it being seen as a stunt.
In some ways, I probably have been very hypocritical. I know I have made some posts out there that do not represent very well, but I am representing myself. I only make myself look bad.
I just think it could be better…
I hope this makes sense, I tried to type this up quick this morning and probably made the same mistakes I listed.
Steffensen
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Posted By: TerryMN
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 10:13am
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All that to say we can't spell. |
Posted By: TerryMN
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 10:23am
| Agco is much like the Obama Administration. They just don’t get it. They don’t get it because they don’t listen. They don’t listen because they are always right. |
Posted By: TerryMN
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 10:31am
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The only thing I think AGCO has done a good job of right now is getting rid of customers. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 10:42am
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I'm by nature an emotional prideful guy. I became a Christian in 91 and since have tried to be a humble guy. But, I understand the feelings some of the younger ones because I've been there and still have them. The internet and email work for me because I can rewrite, erase, edit etc. my thoughts. If I were talking to Martin in public I'd have a rough time restraining myself so it's probably good I don't. Either way I doubt very seriously anybody does anything for me on here. They might do it for IG who owns a one year old Gleaner combine, older DT's and some other AGCO stuff. He hasn't been on here for this conversation but I'm sure he owns more than a half million dollars in AGCO equipment. His next tractor was going to be a new DT but because AGCO dropped orange he's going Deere and has already ordered his new large frame Deere. I try to keep my emotions in check and be humble but I'm still ticked at AGCO. I'm one of the few, along with IG, that will never buy another piece of AGCO equipment hay, tillage or otherwise because they've dropped orange. I'm among many though who bought AGCO equipment because it was the "Allis Gleaner" company and made orange ones. And among many who drove past several other brand dealers to get to an AGCO one because they sold orange. And despite all those European countries, the size of Kansas and with the population of Maine, that have more pull than the North American market and Brazil who has more AGCO brands available to it than North America and still has the AGCO Allis brand, I think AGCO is going to miss North America and in particular the upper midwest. North America has made Deere 1, CNH 2 and single handedly built AGCO from the ashes of Deutz. AGCO can manipulate it's numbers all it wants to show how unprofitable North America is but when the tax laws change where income earned overseas will be taxed by American companies and AGCO will actually have to show that all those upper management salaries, engineering R&D and advertising expenses are paid for by the NA market then maybe it'll make more sense to them. As I said before they only have two logical reasons why they are doing what they are doing and more and more it points to the fact that it really has become and Arrogant German COmpany. I appreciate you being on here and if your at the show in Wisconsin maybe I'll see you. Maybe I'll even bring an orange who knows. I appreciate you being humble to other ideas that possibly make more sense than what AGCO is doing. Maybe you can make a difference where I, and others, have failed. You have given me some hope. If you need more conviction I suggest taking the AGCO shirt off and going in and talking to some dealers. They can't make heads or tales of how AGCO is run and most of that feeling existed long before Martin opened his mouth. -My grammar has always stunk. I watch Between the Lions on PBS with my kids and I learn stuff I never knew or long forgot about grammar so please forgive that. -Spell check is a must for me. -The numbers I've heard, that AGCO orange outsells MF 4 to 1 in the larger tractors was from an AGCO salesman that overheard and AGCO region rep and was told not to repeat it. I've heard from my brother, (who converted to Deere from AGCO largely because they didn't offer a complete orange line), who heard it from a Deere dealer manager who heard it from his high school friend who is a regional rep for Challanger that they have to work so hard on price just to get someone to look at a Challenger and then the dealer support isn't there. I've heard the AGCO dealers say that the Challenger dealers don't stock parts. I've heard from AGCO salesmen that AGCO used to have a guy who I think headed up Hesston. He'd have a couple of large balers sitting at the factory and would offer extended financing to the dealers to take the balers and try to sell them. They always did and they always sold them before they needed the extension. They took the balers in the first place because of that security blanket and it worked for everyone. AGCO thought so highly of this individual that they fired him because he didn't get permission from the higher ups before doing that. The perception is, from the dealers, that if you make your boss look bad at AGCO you get fired. My perception is that dealers are afraid to talk to AGCO. I heard it from another AGCO dealer/manager/owner that he's asked AGCO about offering different colors for years and he guaranteed he could sell more if they had other colors. He used to be on their dealer advisory board but isn't anymore and he says AGCO was glad to get rid of him. I heard rumors for a long time from multiple sources that Challenger lost money since it's inception until it finally made money last year for the first time. I've heard from a salesmen that AGCO has far fewer defunct owners than MF or Challenger and that can be backed up by looking at the tractors for sale by AGCO finance on Tractorhouse. So unless my information is all wrong AGCO is getting rid of its brand that leads in sales, profitability and has the least returns because they want to try and make MF and Challenger bigger. And, they think that those farmers who already drive past several other brands of tractors to buy their orange one will do the same thing for a Ferguson. Hum... I think by the simple fact that there will be more MF dealers from former AGCO ones MF sales will increase. But, I would venture to bet that they won't get to the point where the orange ones were. Since I'm in the betting mood I'll bet that AGCO raises prices on parts to try and force farmers into new equipment. And, I'll bet that silver Gleaner combines are not long for this world. I've heard people say that won't happen because Gleaner outsells MF and Challenger 3 to 1. I say we'll AGCO outsold those same colors 4 to 1 and they got rid of it. Pretty safe bets don't you think? Ok, I'll get off my soap box. It's just bad for my blood pressure. Byron |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 11:00am
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I in no way meant I was good at any of it. (Spelling, grammar, keeping my emotions in check)
I also do not have any inside access for me to verify the sales. So I am going to go off your statements for now.
But I can easily respect what you have said.
Steffensen
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2010 at 11:23am
Steff, I will give you credit for coming here;..Too bad the people who have the power to make decisions wont.
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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2010 at 7:01am
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Yup, I think we all give you credit for coming on here. This will be perhaps the beginning of another tragic end to another fine tractor line due to poor management and economic conditions and at least it's being documented here and other places. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2010 at 7:10pm
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Posted By: jls
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2010 at 7:49pm
| I will not be buying Agco because they dumped a rather well thought of advertizer on this site. The Massey dealer who does have their tractors I cannot do business with even tho I finished wearing out 2 Massey balers and haunted their parts counter several hay seasons. The other Agco dealer(origionally MM,Oliver,White) Now has ALL Deere tractors lined up out front. Dealer support is CRUCIAL to the purchase of new equipment. |