new toy for me
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77429
Printed Date: 10 May 2024 at 5:00am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: new toy for me
Posted By: desertjoe
Subject: new toy for me
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2013 at 8:55am
|
Hello fellow tractor enthusiasts,, I am looking to buy an older Allis Chalmers backhoe/loader for a rebuild project. It has been parked for several years. It was sold at a government auction and the fellow never did anything with it after dismanteling the engine. It needed a piston/liner/rings and he did not want to spend any money on the tractor so It sat for years. He has since "lost" the oil pan, cylinder head, plus bolts he removed. The backhoe and loader and main frame appear to be low hours and no obvious leaks anywhere. I have an opportunity to buy it at a good price, but,,,,cannot find where the engine and tractor serial numbers are located. The Guy says he was told it was a "D4 gas" but in searching the web, I only find a D14 but not same tractor. This one looks to have been a kind of orange color. The PO says there are several farm combines etc. that use same engine,,,? Any help will be appreciated, and THanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2013 at 9:02am
| Just about need a picture posted to help |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2013 at 9:08am
|
OOPS slips,,,I'll post some pics soon as I can catch the Guy at home. 
|
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2013 at 7:41pm
|
OK, Guys, finally caught the guy at home. The only number I found on engine was on left side of engine block ( 149-22587R ). It does have a 4 speed with reverse pattern on top of trans housing. The loader had an Allis Chalmers tag with numbers TS-500 1E705AC. The backhoe has a Allis Chalmers tag also but I could not read the numbers. The engine is a 4 cylinder gasoline. The starter was mounted on centerline of engine at the back of engine and under the fuel tank. It has a generator Vs an alternator but could not tell if 6 or 12 volt. I will attach some pics I got 2day and hopfully some of you tractor Gurus can help me ID the engine. The PO bought this at a gov auction and was told it is a D4 gasoline, but I find no mention of such on the internet. The engine had a bad piston and he dismantled it and has since lost the head, oil pan, pistons and liners,,etc. PO tells me some combines have this similar engine,,,,,??? fingers crossed,,,,, Many thanks for any help on this.. Joe r |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2013 at 8:22pm
|
Hey HD6GTOM,,,please tell me how to post pics here. |
Posted By: RichinWis
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2013 at 9:08pm
| with a TS500 loader on it, it is most likely a D15 industrial tractor with loader and backhoe. D15 industrials should have a solid non adjustable front axle with standard non spinout wheels on the rear. Engine is a 149 cubic inch standard D15 tractor issue which parts are quite easy to come by. HTH |
Posted By: BackhoeBob
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2013 at 9:14pm
| It sounds like my I 400. Wish you were closer to me...I'd like to sell mine...no time to fix it up. It runs and everything works, but needs restored. |
Posted By: RichinWis
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2013 at 9:22pm
| The TS500 loader was the loader that was made for the D15 industrial, the I 400 had a different smaller loader. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 7:43am
|
WOW,!! Thanks Guys for all the replies. I'm starting to get excited,! I have several pics I took yesterday but can't figure how to post them,,,can somebody help me out? |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 6:33pm
| I don't know how to post pictures |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 12:02am
OK,,my thanks to CTuckerNWIL and beaud_250 for filling me in on how to post pics here, so am goin to give it a whirl,,,wish me luck,,         Man,,,I do not know what the hay happened,,I resized all the pics but some came thru in full size and have screwed up big time. I will delete these and start all over SORRY !!!! |
Posted By: Dean (West MI)
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 12:59am
|
Same loader used on a 615 also? |
RichinWis wrote:Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 7:24am
|
Desert joe, what are you sorry about, you got the pictures posted didn't you?
Looks like thats just an old D15 under the loader and backhoe. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 8:41am
|
OK,, a D15,??. Now, how do I go about ID'ing the year in order to start trying to locate a used engine somewhere? According to the PO, the engine just needed a piston and he pulled all the pistons/ liners then decided not to mess with it. Now, He cannot find any of the parts so I will have to buy an engine for parts to reassemble this one or R&R complete engine. He did tell me that some other farm equipment used the same engine such as combines,,,,?? Any body got a clue? any pics of yours,?? Anybody got a clue of the "designation" of this particular engine? I did read elsewhere that the # on this engine block 149-22587R designates it a 149 cubic inch block,,?? Thanks for any help. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 7:31pm
| D-14, D-15, series 1, and the same engines, in power units, are the ones you can use as a direct replacement. Also D-10 and D12, series 3 are 149 cu inch motors. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 12:31am
|
Hey DIYDave,, thanks for the comeback, I appreciate your input. What do you mean by power units? How do I go about determining the year of this tractor? When I start asking around, Does "D15 or 149" tell the sellers what I'm looking for? Do all D15's have same bolt pattern on bellhousing? D10's, D14's? Sorry bout so many questions but I'm a learner. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 1:20am
|
There should be a serial number on the transmission housing right next to the rear of the engine block on the right side (looking forward from the rear). Starts with D. Find the number and we can give you the year. There were thousands of those engines built for running everything from oil pumps to carnival rides. Pretty much all the same. I believe all D15's were 12 volt, positive ground, but may be wrong. What part of New Mexico are you in? Not a lot of Allis's in that state but lots in the mid west. Too bad the PO lost the head, etc. How does one do that I wonder? Good luck with your find. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: allismanamp
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 4:41am
|
If my dad or grandpa ever seen me take a allis Chalmers tractor apart especially something like a engine!!!!! And leave it uncovered in the elements he would have wooped me good Can't believe some people and even worse he lost the parts he took off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What is the deal? Some people should not be aloud to touch tractors A replacement engine could be pricey tell him 500 as is Being you are having to find a complete parts engine. I like the loader on the old girl looks pretty tough I seen it had spin out rims as well I also assumed they were fixed non adjustable kind of odd Wonder how much of the parts in her are good yet? How long has it been sitting? ------------- ~AMP~ |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 4:57am
Power units are plain engines, used to run generators, pumps, carnival rides, combine engines, corn picker engines, etc. D15, series 1. Series 2 is a 160 cu in engine, much pricier. All 149 cubic engines have the same specs, as do the 138 engines. The difference between the 138 and the 149 is merely the sleeve/pistons/rings. As for the year, doesn't make much difference, on the engine, they were made from '57-'67, if not longer.
|
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 8:37am
|
WOW,,,thanks for all the replies, Guys!! Actually I am goin up this weekend to get the tractor as I had to wait for my friend to get his trailer back from another "borrow Job". My 18 footer was 1" not wide enough. JohnCo, I will check out that location you gave me for the SN. I had crawled all over that thing looking for a number, but must have just missed it. AllisManamp, that was my concern on "how" does one lose important engine parts. Parts missing are pistons, liners, oil pan, cylinder head, intake/exhaust manifolds and carb. At least he didn't take the crankshaft out!! Fact is, I just had a thought,,,since this is at a wrecking yard, and old cars and trucks all around it,,,,maybe, just maybe the parts are in some of those other vehicles?? You think? Naw,, my luck doesn't run that good. The Backhoe and loader pivot joints look to be very snug with no visible oil leaks on any of the hose joints except for an oil leak at the main pump area. This tractor belonged to a government agency and I doubt it got much use from looks of the pivot joints, and both buckets. DiyDave, OK, so now I know maybe what and where to look for a possible donor for an engine. I sure would like to see a pic of a complete D15 engine with the head and manifolds so I know what to look for. I find some Allis Chalmers engines on Ebay but nothing listed as D15 or D14. Anybody,,??? |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 8:27pm
| Have you tried the photo gallery here, or over at YTmag? |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2013 at 9:47am
|
Hey DiyDave,, I'm a little slow this morn,,I cannot find the photo gallery you refer to. I looked everywhere it might be but,,,????Is YTmag a web site? thx |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2013 at 10:04am
|
Link to a website showing location of 'Engine Serial Number' and 'Tractor Serial Number'. Both numbers are on the 'LEFT' side of the Tractor when you are sitting on the seat. Gary http://people.clemson.edu/~wsmth/SNLocat/ACSN5.htm |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2013 at 7:00pm
|
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2013 at 8:44am
|
Well, I'll just be danged,,, YTmag just happens to be Yesterday's Tractors,,,!! doesn't it?? Yes, DiyDave, I did, as a fact of the matter, post those pics at that site as well, ( much better set of pics aren't they?) Just trying to cover all the bases, you understand. I could not contact the PO to go back again and verify the number for the tractor. I really wanted to look in the adjoining trucks and cars around the tractor as I'm hoping the parts they removed are resting safely inside one of them. Doesn't make much sense to remove the parts and carry them off elsewhere, or at least that's what I'm hoping for. I still haven't found a pic of a D14 or 15 engine with cylinder head and valve cover so I know what I'm looking for. I'm supposed to pick the tractor Tues morn and will get a better overall look. Thanks for all the comments. |
Posted By: vooodooo
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2013 at 2:54pm
|
Not that I claim to be an expert but it's missing so many parts, head, carb etc. With the head gone for who knows how long, that motor is likely screwed..IMO you'd be better off buying a complete unit. You could be into so much money to repair you'd get a new machine for cheaper. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2013 at 7:06pm
Keep looking, you will find the serial #. It is really not all that important, the motor you want is a 138, or 149 cubic inch gas motor. They made thousands of them as tractor engines, and power units. Search craig's list, too, I see a lot of them there.
|
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2013 at 9:00am
|
Does anybody here know how to do a search on Craigs list that lists all ads by state? I was going to start with Texas, and then Co, Ok, etc. but so many different cities, or maybe even countrywide then narrow down to states? it would take a while to do by every city listed. Thanks |
Posted By: vooodooo
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2013 at 3:08pm
|
http://www.adhuntr.com/ You can narrow the search by region, ebay, kijiji etc. I've found it useful. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2013 at 7:12pm
| google craigslist tempest search (someone told me how, but I never followed up, that should get you to the hows and whats) |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2013 at 4:24pm
|
Hey Guys,,,I got the Allis home this PM and am a little excited at the thought of jumping into this project and get it running. Can't get it off trailer cause one of the front tires went flat like in "permenrntly"!!! it blew up,,, My neighbor down the street has a tire shop so ill go over in the morn to see if he's got a 700 X 16. I found it ,,!!! I found the tractor SN,,, It says D14 22374 and engine SN is 149-22587R. The backhoe has an Allis Chalmers tag but the backhoe seat is frozen and I can't get behind it to read the number. How does one decipher the tractor number to tell what year it is? Thanks for all help.. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2013 at 6:38pm
| It's a 1960. There are various serial # references, I use the one out of Norm Swinford's book. YTMag has a serial # reference on the left side of the main page, and I think there's one here, too. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2013 at 12:29am
|
OK,,having a little trouble finding some 16" tires to get the tractor off the trailer and pulled under my work tree,,,(that's where shade tree mechanics work) isn't it? I have a question, I cannot get the steering wheel to move an inch! Had not noticed steering was locked up as the PO had picked it out of field with a BIG loader and set it on my trailer and we boomed it down. Got any suggestions??? |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2013 at 9:18pm
|
Finally got some decent front tires on tractor and got it off the trailer. The dang steering is froze up and I see a plate on steering wheel that says "Power steering" I don't see a power steering pump or hoses,,so what powers the fluid? Goin to disconnect the tie rod ends and see what is froze up and kinda go from there.?? The metal shroud around radiator needs some straightening out and some new grill grating material, so am in process of getting the shroud off but looks like the main forward beams on loader have to be unbolted from tractor frame in order to remove the shroud, the radiator and tin around radiator. Goin to get all this straightened up before I go to spray some paint on the thing. The tractor was an orange shade and the loader and backhoe are yellow. I'm not trying to restore this as original but would like for it to look nice. Should I go orange all over,,,or yellow,,,?? Thanks |
Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2013 at 10:09pm
| The steering system is under the radiator. We owned a D15 industrial for a short time and had the same system. The hydrostatic system on the later tractors works much better and less troublesome. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2013 at 5:53am
| PS pump is on RS of engine, as viewed from operators position. It's mounted off the governor drive line, 2 hoses go forward, under fan, into casting forward. You'll likely have to keep taking things off, till you find the culprit. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2013 at 8:57am
|
Well, it's kinda drizzly out this morn, so I'll likely work on my 55 Chevy in the garage today. I did trace the main hydraulic line (1 1/2" hose) from the reservoir on right side of loader frame to the main pump on front of Radiator. There is a 1" rubber/metal hose that goes from pump discharge to the hyd. control valve for the loader bucket/lift, and there is a 1 1/4" rubber hose with a quick coupler that comes off the bottom of this valve that goes to the backhoe control valve. There must be a tap off the front pump going to the steering, but is not visible or I don't recognize what I'm seeing. I'm goin to remove the radiator to get it checked out and cleaned anyway, so maybe the steering will be visible then,,??? |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2013 at 7:15pm
|
Look at the third picture you posted, right under the distributor, see the PS pump?
Spark plug wires are a danglin next to it!
|
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2013 at 12:18am
|
Hey DiyDave,,, I see it,,,I see it,,!!!! Guess I'm agonna have to procure a manual for this thing and learn quick. Does the PS pump take a cut off the hydraulic system or does it have its own reservoir somewhere well hidden?? Many thanks for your time and help, Guy.
|
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2013 at 5:16am
Reservoir IS the pedestal casting, under the radiator. Look for fill plug, front of radiator, round cylindrical object sticking up in front of radiator on left, from OP. Takes 5w20 fluid. I can see it clearly in the 7th picture you posted.
|
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2013 at 9:29am
|
Hey DiyDave,,,,you are the best'est!! I see that thingie in the pic,,! I removed the heavy metal section that goes from side to side on the front of loader frame to give me better access to the front of tractor and to better clean up the main pump as it shows a fluid leak somewhere on the body of pump, or hose connections? I'm not having too much time to work on this project as my wife of 45 years had a stroke a month ago and she requires my help and presence on most things. She's taken care of me when I had my heart attack so I'll do the same for her. I really look forward to working on this project as I have wanted one for so long and now it's here,,,!! I got some inqueries on some manuals on ebay, so hopefully I get one soon. Thanks a million for your time and help. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2013 at 12:43am
|
Take good care of your wife and yourself. The tractor will be there when you have time, something to work on in your free time. What part of NM are you in? Being desertjoe, I'm guessing the southern part of the state. It would be a lot easier to work on the engine, etc. if you remove the loader boom. Just pull the pins and disconnect the hoses and lift it off with a hoist of some kind. Post some pictures of your '55 and the tractor as it progresses. Take Care. By the way, did you find the missing engine parts? ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2013 at 11:10am
|
Hey JohnCo,,, thanks for your concerns. Yeah, She is my lifeline and we take care of each other,,,got to. I thought the same thing since it is really in the way and I been looking at how to safely remove the whole loader to make it easier to do the rebuild and especially the repaint ( I decided on yellow for the whole thing) Goin to try to do some work on it this weekend,,,fingers crossed. I think I may have located a complete 149 engine out of a cotton picker and supposedly was running when pulled a few years ago,, but it is complete. It is laying in its side but the engine serial number is on bottom so the guy is going to get his loader to turn it over so I can get a better look to make sure it is right one ( all fingers crossed on this one) I'll post some pics of the 55 this PM. It is the ONLY 55 in the world with,,,,,,,,Lambourghini doors,,!!! It is bit*****!!! or I think it is. |
Posted By: sandman2234
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2013 at 3:22pm
|
DesertJoe, I am going to send you a PM of a website that has a manual for that tractor in pdf form. I haven't looked at it, but did download a different one not too long ago. Oh, heck, I will just post it here, never-mind. You will need to join the group in order to download the file. You should be able to find it with a search under downloads by using D-14. David from jax http://www.classicmachinery.net/forum/ |
Posted By: sandman2234
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2013 at 3:47pm
|
Another one to search Craigslist with by state http://www.statewidelist.com/ David from jax |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 7:21pm
|
Hey JohnCo,,,you guessed it,,,Southeast NM,,,kinda halfway between the alien city and the Cave City. Interesting landmarks , they both are. Hey Sandman2234, many thanks for that link, I got the D14 manual downloaded,,,all 88 pages. Now, Im goin to have to get a new ink cartridge,as I rather like to look at a hard copy in lieu of goin in the house to get on computor. Also ,,many more thanks for the link to the search by state for craigs list and other classified site. sure beats having to search by city,,,texas is a BIG state with lots of cities. I'm goin to meet a fellow in the morning who has a allis chalmers 4 cyl gas engine. I;m sure hopin it is a 138 or a 149 as these are SUPPOSED to be same engines except for bore size,,,,?????? Got my fingers crossed. |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2013 at 11:25am
|
Morning Guys,,,Well, I finally got the guy to turn the engine over so I can look at the SN and here is what I see. number on block is 17-35236-M. I looked at my list I downloaded from here but don't see that sequence of numbers,,,,? Does the 17 designate a D17? The cylinder head looks to be same as some pics I have seen on forums with the large oblong recess at the spark plugs. I pulled the valve cover looking for a casting number but no luck there either. valve cover looks same as pics also. oil pan is same as pics. The bellhousing bolt pattern is different from mine so I couldn't use the block,, but,,,??? Also, the front of block where the distributor and PS pump mount is different, Does anybody see possibility of using the parts off this engine on my 149??? many thanks for any help.. |
Posted By: sandman2234
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2013 at 8:35am
|
Your welcome for the link, hope the search engine does you some good. David from jax |
Posted By: mikedes
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2013 at 9:12am
|
I didn't notice if anyone had posted the search engine for Craigs list by area code - you can search any distance you select from your place. It is http://www.searchtempest.com/ and works really well Mike D
|
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 12:27am
|
Hey David from Jax and Mike D,, I can't figure what happened, I had written a long winded response ( I do tend to do that sometimes) and then hit "post" and the whole dang thing disappeared!!! Makes me mad cause with my 2 fingered speed typing style,,,it takes me a while... Hmmm<?? Anyway, I have been burning up the pages looking for an engine for my project. There are lots up in the northern states, but after visiting with the trucking companies, I start back pedaling a bit. But, I ain't giving up,!! Hey Mike, that searchtempest is a great site and easy to search. I did find a 1960 Gleaner (?) with a 4 cylinder engine just a couple hundred miles from me but the guy must be out of town or on vacation as no answer for three days. Sure hoping it is a 149. I decided to remove the loader from tractor to make the engine replacement easier but that thing was trying to do a wheelie so I buttoned it back up and decided to remove the backhoe to get weight off the rear. Now, I'm sure this is easy to do when you have the engine power to help you,,,but with no power,,,it is a BI***. Took me three days of rigging, jacking pulling pushing but finally got em both off. Now the tractor looks awful small and nakid,,,,!! |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 10:22pm
|
Hey Guys,,,,with the help of Richard, Gerald and Charlie,,I was able to locae the original thread I had started when I bought the tractor,,,In SEP,,,of 2013,,,,,,,DANG,,,3 years ago,,!!! If this works to update the thread,,I want to post an update and a couple of pics. 
|
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2016 at 11:57pm
|
wheres the upsates>.. and the pics????? LOL ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: sandman2234
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 6:36am
Remember now, he types with just two fingers, and no telling how long it will take him to paint those pictures onto the screen! I am sure he will be along with some updates soon! David from jax ------------- A proud member of the Allis Express movement! Northeast Florida |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2016 at 11:54pm
|
Remember Joe, the computer screen is not an etch-a-sketch! ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 4:55am
| 3 years huh???? wow...what have you been doing in all that time? yer bouts as slow as ole Les! whew! |
Posted By: desertjoe
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 7:12am
|
Well,,,Godd Buddy,,,,Ya got me on thet one,,,,but,,,,but,,,,but,,I have been workin on something all this time,,,Jeeeze,,,I had no idea it has been this long since I bought this d14 and sure was glad ole Richard and Gerald and Charlie learn't me how to drag this old thread back up cause I HAVE been workin out some details on it since I finished the Series II last week,,!! My #3 Son did a short video of the Series II but now havein issues with the uploading plus he's been Barbary Sheep huntin and he thinks THAT is more important than my tractor,,,sheesh,,kids,,!! I'm going to take some pics of the D14 for the update,,hopefully today,,
|
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2016 at 10:38am
|
the hoe looks a lot like the AC 615 detachable hoe that was on my HD4 - except that was a 2 lever control system - just some extra linkage on valves . the cessna rotary piston on top for swing was used by some other Mfg also MF used it and parts can be found yet ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |