Counterweighted crank
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65513
Printed Date: 23 Nov 2024 at 2:44am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Counterweighted crank
Posted By: wi50
Subject: Counterweighted crank
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 5:33pm
Crank came back from getting skim ground for additional oil clearance and I'm just about ready to assemble the super stock short block assembly. The chassis is comeing allong and I'm almost done with the cylinder head and manifolding. Going to be building turbo setup and plumbing shortly. Here's a few pics of a counterweighted crank for those of you who have never seen one. Weight added to the existing counterweights and cyl 2 and cyl 5 have a complete weight added offset to balance the rod and piston assembly.
  ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Replies:
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:22pm
|
What bob weight is the counter weights engineered for.welds still ugly aas ever.its amazing how much work a person will do who xoesnt understand four inline cylinder balancing . ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:28pm
| Sure pank, and your superstock is where............. |
Posted By: patrickmull
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:36pm
| didn't take long for the local clown to speak up |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:38pm
Even more amazing is the fact you have finally started to use the period key. Unfortunately doing that has apparently blown a couple cells and caused to to forget to use the space key. PleasegobacktonotusingaperiodasnothavinganyspacesandnocapitollettersmakesyourpostshardtoreadandevenmorestupidthanyoualreadyareOK?thanksinadvance.
|
mlpankey wrote:Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:44pm
|
If a guy wants to make a 4 cylinder crank with the journals less than. 180 degrees apart then he needs counterweights.talking about a timing nightmare. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: AC200Puller
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 6:51pm
| Well lets see ur crankshaft work panky spanky , I'm sure I have nicer ones in the junk than you could build. What a moron! |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 7:01pm
|
Yet another who doesnt understand balancing a four cylinder and trying to apply rules for a 90 degree v8 to a 180 degree 4 banger. I see why so many superstockers buy engines to run Before you go to a snake oil salesman cause youve got to have one research this. 4 cylinder cranks are mechanically balanced by the two opposing pistons. The only way they arent balanced is in high rpms causing second imbalanes issues. Automotive engineers realised this and also realized that counterweights did nothing for this second imbalance and engineered balance shafts to counteract second imbalnce ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: AC200Puller
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 7:21pm
| BLAH BLAH BLAH !!!! |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 8:11pm
|
What 4 cylinder crank has a number 5 cylinder spanky get some glasses and find the shut up button on you or computer wi nice work keep the info coming ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: O.P.S. Heads
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 8:31pm
| Looks good WI. Keep up the good work. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 8:41pm
|
All you bench racing boys should at least read wikepedia . a inline six cylinder is in mechanical balance and counteracts second imbalance by its design of cylinder arrangement. snakeoil salesman work hard to impress the shade tree farm mechanics. Its your farm money spend it how you choose . ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Carl(NWWI)
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2013 at 9:15pm
Before you go rutting around with your feathers fluffed you should understand that this is a 6 cylinder engine. That's 2 more then 4. Maybe this will help, say you have 4 apples, you pick 2 more off the tree and put them in the basket, how many are now in the basket???? Looking good Marty, cant wait to see it run! Or check it out when a bring a different head over.
|
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 4:19am
|
Spunkster, why don't you explain to us why a 426 AC crank has no counterweight? Why a JD has weights on all and why an IH 400 series has weights on 4 of the 6 cylinders? Of the 3 why is the non weighted AC crank the most likely to fail? Cummins and Cat are weighted. Or better yet why pullers need to add the weights for durability? ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 7:51am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: DonDittmar
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 7:58am
|
Suppose this thread is going to turn into the same thing as the connecting rod thread, 10 pages of BS
------------- Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 8:38am
|
Hahahah Wi thanks for starting another epic post. Spunkalot, do you comprehend anything?? When Wi talks about cylinders two and FIVE, It isn't a four cylinder Alice anymore. Once again you exhibit that your a legend in your own mind. Got any pictures of spanks cranks? Can't wait to see the super run this year Wi! |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 8:59am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 9:20am
|
Good luck pank. You can make something up, but the fireing order and crank layout all have something in common. Waste your time though, better than trying to pollute this forum. Speaking of bench racers I opened up my copy of The Puller magazine. You know the one, the national magazine from NTPA. WI50's picture in there a couple times on the podium for state and regional points. I squinted and didn't see yours pank. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 9:55am
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Glockhead SWMI
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 10:25am
| Why is this guy still here? Produce something! Nice pics wi. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:04am
Hey Moron, all 4 stroke inline 6 cylinders you will ever work on fire 1-5-3-6-2-4. Repete, ALL. Your differing firing order excuse dont ride, You dont know what you are talking about,,, as usual.
|
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:06am
So true. Didn't be say he was building some engine the other week?? How come we never hear about panks projects or get to see pictures. Even better, hear of a happy customer. I mean nothing can be that top secret, Wi posts pics and he's pictured in national magazines as a winner. The only pictures of panks I've seen we're featured on this forum as bent rods hahah. I guess In panks mind he who throws the rod the farthest wins. Maybe he should take up shot putting. |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 11:57am
Pank stated that us bench pullers need to read wikiopedia more often...Look stupid, dont you know that ANYONE can edit Wikipedia? Why dont you go over there and try to look smart. Its not cutting it here anymore..You are the kind of guy who likes to spread his BS...there is your chance. Man Im glad BK has the internet...knocking panks dick in the dirt...best lunch break all week..
|
Posted By: WildBill
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 12:27pm
|
Crank looks awesome Marty! Is that held in with custom 4 bolt main caps ? Billet? Just curious? ------------- Allis fan for life ! B,C,2-WC'S,WD45G,D19G,190xt ,LLSS 8010, terra tiger refurbished |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 1:14pm
Well I'm not the spunkster, he can't answer and at least admitted it this time before makeing up some bs. The non weighted ones fail the most..... the rest of the block is just plain strong enough to transfer the loads. It's "forced" into being balanced, somewhere down the line on the crank.
But the weighted cranks help, the load is transfered across the crank rather than to another cylinder somewhere down the line.
If you look at some cranks that are weighted on all the cylinders, the weights oppose the crankpin by180*. The ones weiighted on 4 of the 6 cylinders have the weights clocked slightly off on some of the crankpins, some of the weights are 180* off the crankpin and some are clocked differently. 1 weight of the pair for one cylinder will be 180* off and the other weight for that cylinder will be clocked to help the non weighted cylinders on those cranks.
Spankey can look at the fireing orders, but it doesn't make any difference. Gas, diesel, same difference.
Additional weight is added on these high RPM pulling cranks to hopefully completly nutralize the rod and piston unit, on each throw with minimal transfer elsewhere in the rotating assembly. It's got enough stress on it.
Stock cranks will run up pretty fast but will eventually throw themselves apart, we all know that. Weighted ones will run faster, and ones with all cylinders counterweighted and added weights will run untill the lifters spit out the block or the rod bolts pull.
Wild, Bill, just plain stock main caps in the block, decked and a 1" thick alumnium girdle with a block between the girdle and plate. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 1:43pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 1:54pm
I'd love to learn how firing order effects the balance of a rotating mass. Please explain using proper spelling. punctuation, and grammar so all can understand without having to decipher your gibberish. -Oh please cite your sources; and don't use Wikipedia, professors hated that. |
Posted By: Glockhead SWMI
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 2:59pm
| Well... when your firing order isn't right it vibrates like crazy...... lol.... |
Posted By: WildBill
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 3:13pm
|
Thanks Marty.. Was only wondering with the rotating mass change if a person was to 4 bolt front and rear main caps ? But yes a girdle tied into it would make sense. Thanks. ------------- Allis fan for life ! B,C,2-WC'S,WD45G,D19G,190xt ,LLSS 8010, terra tiger refurbished |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 3:32pm
I think all but one of us Know who's firing order isn't right  ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 3:37pm
Proof positive that people who actually know something can explain the complicated in simple terms. We now await the VI and a 1000 word response,, with no periods, commas or capitalization.  |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 3:43pm
|
"Some are given to prophecy, Some to invention Some to leadership However some were placed here simply to move heavy objects" Yet others we can just wonder about ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 4:31pm
------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: AC200Puller
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 4:47pm
| Wi 50 what are you building for a tractor ? I would like to see the finished product always great to walk around a fine piece of equipment and drool! |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 5:06pm
|
Pankey, I asked how the firing order effects "BALANCE" of a rotating mass. Not how it effect vibration. That paper talks about modal analysis of a crankshaft, which by the way is finding the natural frequency a material, object, or structure vibrates at. (Everything has a natural frequency) By testing different firing orders they are making the crankshaft "ring" at a different frequency. If you make the crankshaft "ring" within it's natural frequency vibration amplitudes will significantly increase. (10-30x increase vs not in the range of resonance) So once you know the natural frequency of an object you can change it by adding mass, increasing stiffness, or in the case of the paper avoid the resonance range by changing the firing order. We all know when things run smooth they last longer. (Unlike that crank pulley you tried to balance) Balance is a topic I will let you explore on your own. The way you appear to balance cranks is discussion for a whole new topic. A little secret to start you off, you can't balance a crank on a single plane (Ex: welding gobs of dung to a crank pulley). There's a big difference between vibration due to resonance and vibration due to imbalance. Keep trying Spunk.
|
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 5:38pm
| Oh, Pankey please stop PM'ing me about this. I'd much rather keep this discussion out in the public :) |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 5:52pm
I can just about bet Pankster was a professor of matrix algebra at the U of Panky and understands all this paper talks about I read somewhere in there they were using 1900 rpm too.  ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 6:03pm
|
I asked those questions to see if you knew anything about balance pankey. You said you didn't, and now are showing your lack of experience. That article only backs up what wi said. Fireing order doesn't effect balance. Nice try but you're still wrong pank. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 7:41pm
|
Industry standard is to reduce bob weight and since the counter weight represents 50 percent of the bob weight in most instances it will reduce also but marty defys some industry standards while concuring with others. I think btyant cranks spends enough on r and d to buy most of the wisconsin farms up with their virtually no counter weights and hollow rod journals but yet marty goes in the opposite direction. Read the link it supports the industry standards and firing orders ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 7:54pm
|
http://bryantracing.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/SB-PETERS71.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://bryantracing.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/SB-PETERS71.jpg Do I spy with my little eye... Balance weights on a Bryant crank???? Hmmmm Also Pankey, that link you posted and refer to so often, Did you read it at all?
|
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 8:03pm
|
[QUOTE=Ihateillinoisnazis] http://bryantracing.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/SB-PETERS71.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://bryantracing.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/SB-PETERS71.jpg Do I spy with my little eye... Balance weights on a Bryant crank???? Hmmmm Also Pankey, that link you posted and refer to so often, Did you read it at all? [/CRANES] so you pull a picture of a bryant with small counter weights now slug it with mallory when you cant hit their target bob weight. Oh wait if you had one you would have the warning not to but to externally balance when target bob weight is not attainable.------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 8:24pm
Dafq are you taking about? Really.. quit rambling, post something useful, or go suck on a slug of used uranium or something.
|
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 8:40pm
|
Ok i am smarty marty the air flow expert i am going to turn my engine at least double to three times its factory rpm. I have this 1 1/2 hp cnc that can mill out a harder material than factory rod so i can slim line it while making it longer so its still 50 perzent lightee than factory. I then can run a 50 percent lighter piston and ring package. Cause i raised the pin location and dont need the heavier wider rings after all a thinner ring is a better seal. Now necause i am going to turn it so much harder i am going to add more weight to the counter weight.which already represents 150 percent of my bob weight. So know i am 250 percent over my bob weight with my superior weight adding skills and that is going to reduce any damage caused from vibration.lol ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2013 at 9:03pm
You don't even know enough about balancing to have fun with
 That statement (and the other you just posted above this) is just a jumble of words you have heard somebody in the
balancing room say and assembled them into senseless BS.For you and the ones that might be confused by your foolishness, here is
balance primer 101 so at least next time you dont make a total fool of
yourself. We are going to use a single cylinder engine here for simplicity but the math and terms cross to others What makes the engine vibrate and thus the need of something to balance it
is two things not one. Rotating weight which is a circular vibration and non-rotating weight such as the piston. The rotating weight is easy, you place a weight, aka counter weight opposite and problem solved. Now there is two problems left here. The piston is going back and forth causing a vibration in line with the bore and you have the rod which is what??? It is neither in total. The pin end of the rod is more or less non-rotating and the big end is more or less rotating, Since the entire balancing job must be done on the crank how are you going to counteract the piston??. Huh?? The piston go up and down and your balance weight go round and round Pank??? The answer is compromise, or in balancing lingo "percentage". You cancel out part of the piston but not all of it or the engine will simply vibrate in a 90 degree angle to how it vibrated when unbalanced. The bob weight whose purpose you totally butchered is nothing more than a calculated weight used to balance the engine. Is not some number you shoot for when building the engine. It is the total of the rotating weight, plus a percentage of the non-reciprocating weight added to it. This would be the bob weight which is hung on the rod journal and you balance by adding weight opposite aka counterweight. So naturally when a smart builder uses the lightest components that will hold up to his use the weight of the bob used to balance the engine will be lighter. An under balanced engine (by percentage) will vibrate inline with the bore, an over balanced engine (by percentage) will vibrate perpendicular to the bore and this even changes with RPM once you are close. Somewhere in between is the best we can do. Obviously this is many feet above your level of understanding Pank but maybe others will benefit. What WI50 is saying is with no counterweights on the inline 6 you must transfer all of these forces through the crank to the piston that is going in the opposite direction. In the case of number 1 that would be number 6 Pank, all the way at the other end. #2 is countered by #5 and #3 by #4. Isnt hard to see why at his HP levels that would twist and break cranks. Wasnt it you who just today said that timing at individual cylinders was like the holy grail of found power?? Now you say it is better to use the crank as a torsion bar to balance the engine than to balance it at each cylinder and eliminate the twist??? Please make up your mind and argue one way or the other I get dizy easily. The builder you mention and most others will mention a bob weight because they don't want the counterweights added to or subtracted from excessively and compromising the crank, this is why they offer several bob weight ranges in popular strokes. If you are building the entire engine in the shop like Marty you simply design the crank weights around the parts that make to power, not the other way around, One of these days, maybe,,if you ever build engine #2 and get your head out where the sun shines. You will learn that what you learned on #1 does not apply across all engines, all applications, all HP and all configurations,,,, , Remember #1 went 5 runs and KABOOM!!!! Sorry guys just in one of those moods today I guess? |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 7:30am
|
This pankey fool knows just enough to get into trouble but not enough to get out. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 7:35am
|
Butch, good exination. When dealing with spank we need to remember this is the guy who believes in forged cast rods. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 7:45am
|
We will be doing some crankshaft comparative balancing analysis in a few weeks. Class will be 250 a person space is limited . Lunch will be served sweet tea and bbq. The comparitive analysis will be a inline 4 cylinder crank shaft externally balanced with no bob weights at first then introduce bob weights to see if any change to balance occurs. The other analysis will be rod journals being moved to center up rod to bore effects has on balancing . sign up now. If you would like to check a six cylinder crank bring the crank harmonic balncer flywheel clutch pressure plate and either the bob weight in grams or rod and piston assembly for us to weigh. on inline you dont suppose to put bob weights on them. on a v8 the big end doubles but not on a inline only one rod per throw . big end is rotating weight the little end is recipicating. there is such a thing as over and under balancing it is directed by rpms. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 7:57am
|
What's this "we" sh!t? You got a mouse in your pocket? We all know you can't teach a class. You can't even teach bullsh!tting, you're bad at that too! |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:28am
I'll save you fella's the $$$. I'll show you for free what pank's cranks can do for you. The real question is did pankey do this himself, or was it the work of his immaginary shop? We leaves me wondering if the neighborhood toddler was playing with sparklers and the result was this....
 They can weld nuclear waste on the wrong side of the pulley to balance it. But with a double imbalance (like a double negative in mathmatics) I bet it will vibration harden the rods, maybe even throw the timeing back into being spot on.
Your lawnmower blade balancer rusted up a little pank? ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:38am
|
Marty, The balancing blobs are a notch above the wheelie bar blobs at least, LOL
|
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:49am
|
thats weight . for a externally balance crank . but marty makes comments that you cant externally balance a crank. he obviously never drove a ford 302 . it never slung the weight . now you fellows runing elastic harmonic balancers might need to be cautious of slinging the outer ring ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:54am
yes they are a notch above... wheelie bars tend to be close to the ground, at least that's where I'd put them. The crankshaft is typically much higher in the vehicle with it's centerline the same as that of the driveline
With pankey's measureing skills I now know what a "notch above" means. I'm guessing he has notches cut in a stick rather than micrometers and calipers.
Unless of course you wish to ask how far you could move the crankshaft down in it's bore and still not have timeing gear issues, input shaft problems, or whatever else he wasn't thinking about in his "topfuel machining" topic. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 9:38am
|
wi 2 percent over 50 percent(neutral balance) is a overbalance what ever measuring tool you use. your doing well keep moving away from the racing industry standards .I will keep following them . Cause I have been through the follow the leader stuff. Its commical when you find out everyone was doing counter weights due to the fact the leader just cut some out to shape with his torch. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 10:10am
|
Spunky, you never cease to amuse. At least this forum has that going. FYI externally balancing a crank is a manufacturers way to save costs. Since you couldn't understand this I the con rods post cost savings is what keeps manufacturers such as ford and Chevrolet in business and competitive. Sometimes manufacturing techniques aren't done with performance in mind, rather the bottom line. Keep piling pigeon sh!t on your crank pulley and we will continue to watch you huck rods out the bottom. As for following the leader, you should try it sometime. You might get somewhere in life. Your not a leader. Well I take that back, you are the resident idiot around here. I'm sure no one else is claiming that title for themselves. |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 10:17am
| I find it so comical that pank has yet to build a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder antique that makes more then one or two hooks, but yet he seemingly is more knowledgeable then all the guys building the top performing superstock motors in the ntpa! Pank you are arguing that what Marty is doing is incorrect, even though its the exact way a super motor is built. Dude this is not a wd allis or a 292 Chevy six! Either build one and come beat Marty heads up like a man, or shut up and stay in the corner where you belong. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 10:50am
You sir have obviously not read the post where Pank told the world that he is the smartest person on this site! Please go read it and then come back and show proper respect  |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 11:27am
pank posted this yesterday morning, today he thinks he's an expert.
the only way one of these engines is going to stay alive is to counterweight the crank.
And now to make pankeys head spin a few times, the new rod weighs 1960 grams. The OEM rod is about 6500 grams..... the crank stroke is the same, 4.75". Tell me how heavy the big end of the rod is? The big end is the one that attaches to the crankshaft (rember, someone had to explain it to you in the connecting rod thread)
And one more thing, the engine has a 2.2 to 1 connectiong rod length to stroke ratio...... ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 12:01pm
How about the post where he said he was the most quoted person on here. Sometimes he quotes himself without adding anything so I guess that is possible  ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 12:06pm
| I wonder what calculator spunky will try to plug Wi's numbers into?? The spankulator9000, defies all things physics and common sense. |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 12:16pm
One for sure Charlie, heckling Pank sure beats working on the Co. financials,, I better get back to work.
 |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 12:22pm
|
Ah reduce it another gram and add 10 pounds of metal to counterweight . thats your logic . not a good logic but you own it wi ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 4:38pm
|
If that's all the better your math is no wonder you never learn anything. Why don't you explain why Honda adds weight to their cranks. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 5:24pm
| Pank, with each passing post you prove more and more how very little you know about high performance pulling engines. if you can't understand the basic concept of what counter weight added to a crank accomplishes, I highly doubt you understand much of anything involved in building a motor. If you want to see a very early use of counterweighting take a look at any early American steam locomotive, look at the wheels and piston systems, the same basic principles are at work.......... |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 7:59pm
|
If i was a smart man and extrodinarly talented machinist i would increase the rod and main journal sizes while hollowing them to increase stiffness of the crank to the fourth power and keeping acceleration as quick as possible. At the cost of a little more bearing speed. Hnnn i always wondered where wi got the idea to use such large main caps now i know it cam from railroad tracks. I however never need railroad track main caps railroad track counter weights or larger rod journals after moving up to 1.88 and two inch .should have used railroad track for rods though. Got some beefy ones in hand now. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:23pm
|
Well good then. Let's see them. If you did anything with Ron shipman, since u were asking for him, you got screwed. But then again, a hairlipped inbred and a retarded hillbilly, you all might get along. ------------- Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while. |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:29pm
|
Hahahahah ^^ This is one of the DUMBEST statements I have heard yet. Where are you going to stick your oversize hollowed out crank? You surely won't have any room to put it in an engine block. The only hole big enough would be the a$$ hole you are talking out of. The only truth is you not being an exceptional machinist, that we know. You aren't a welder either... Hey Spank, Do you have a glass belly button?? You know, so when your head is so far up your a$$ you can still see where you are going... |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:37pm
|
Rod and wi are constantly pointing out the problems with us allis pullers choice in engines either the 426 or the 226 .so maybe some of the allis fans know some of the faults of the competing brands that marty and rod are so proud of..for instance isnt ot the multi main bearing multi counterweighted john deere that has so many crank problems including that its journals can not be turned more than 10 for cleanup you are encouraged to purchase a new crank ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:44pm
|
Bahahahaha. That's the funniest thing I've heard. Nazihater, Oliver did something like that. Never had a crank worth a Pank. You can kiss longevity goodbye. But it wouldn't matter. He never had anything last long anyway . ------------- Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while. |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:54pm
| Hey Spunkster. If you clean that glass belly button with Windex once and a while you will be able to see a lot better. I know, your head will still be up your a$$ like usual but maybe your typing skills will improve. Heck if you can see you might even be able to read the screen and learn something from others. Just think, with vision your welding might improve too! So many opportunities with a little Windex! |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:55pm
|
Avoiding my questions pankey? Can't explain the honda because you know you're wrong. You are right about 2 things, you're not a smart man or a talented machinist. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:55pm
|
Illinoisnazi if your truly a vibration analysis what does distance from center line on a gram of mass have as the rpms increase per thousand.also what happen when mass is further out from center doesnt it get stored like flywheel effect. Doesnt the crank accelerate and decelerate. So what effects does that stored energy have on the crank.ponder on it and get back . Unstylish journal overlap isnt blah blah. Thats why your 4.5 cranks standardbearing size ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 9:03pm
|
Go back to physics one Pank. That's simple math. ...And didn't we already have the discussion: heavy vs light flywheels, and didn't you argue both ways because you forgot what you said the week prior. Maybe when you answer one of my questions I will enlighten you with some math.
|
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 9:26pm
This is so much fun 
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 5:58am
Time to check for radiation leaks at the plant again Pank. As far as anyone on here knows you got 5 runs out of your AC hot rod (or was it bent rod?
) then deep sixed the AC for a BBC, at least that as the story last week. |
Posted By: Glockhead SWMI
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 8:21am
|
I dont think Spanky is teaching me anything but I sure feel a lot smarter every time I read one of his posts. |
Posted By: wi50
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 9:08am
|
You got it all wrong Butch, that was 3 weeks ago he was building a BBC, about Christmas time was an Allis, then we went to the 7" stroke Allis untill I had to explain how to make it fit. Then about a month back he was building a Allis, then back it was to the BBC, last week was an Allis for someone else, and all allong the one he blew up years ago is still running......I think I got it right.
I'd be willing to bet $$$ that he's pulling this summer with all of them, winning every hook, though will be unable to give anyone specific details of when and where..... I bet he even has 3 open Super Stocks, 2 Modifieds and 6 FWD trucks runnning NTPA and PPL circuts. ------------- "see what happens when you have no practical experience doing something...... you end up playing with calculators and looking stupid on the internet" |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 10:36am
|
And Terry blackborn calls him for help lol ------------- Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 11:02am
 ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 3:25pm
|
Bbc is built building chasis. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 3:35pm
| So the chassis is for your cutting edge 6 cylinder naturally aspirated Chevy??? |
Posted By: Ihateillinoisnazis
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 4:54pm
What's a chasis?
|
Posted By: AC200Puller
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 6:47pm
 Panky   The rest of us . Don't let up now guys ! LOL
|
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2013 at 10:07pm
L crawler is 1-4-2-6-3-5 |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 6:30am
Yup, and there are others, thats why I added "you will ever work on" for Pank. There is a reason that 99% of them and virtually all built in the last 50 years fire 1-5-3-6-2-4 and it has to due with this vibration and crank torsion topic too
 The A-C L-90 basically fires the front half the engine, than the rear, no wonder why they had to split intake and put two carbs on them. |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 6:43am
|
Oops someone explained something to Mitch. Now it will have to be " what he already knew". ------------- Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while. |
Posted By: Ken(MI)
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 12:59pm
I think Butch learned some of that at Pankey's last clinic 
|
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 4:35pm
|
Mitch Pankeys Barney Taylor Jack Coronett Ronnie Shipmans builds on 226 engines dont hav counterweights on the cranks and are competitive. None have them have railroad track size main caps either. Shipmans rod are nice beefy hard billet pieces. Coronetts cranks are nitrated after stroking or at least the 6.5 is. Rods the moron that said tbey were only one firing order. I knew the were several options for l6 engines. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 5:06pm
|
You were praiseing those main caps on yt ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 6:31pm
|
Nope never praised. All things shiny. It was pure sarcasim ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 8:45pm
|
So lets see your engine rods. Or are you lying about that? I bet you are. You are always on top of whatever anyone is talking about but you can't back up ANY of the $hit you talk. Not once. You like to talk about Barney ,but I Bet he falls into the same category as Lawrence Wilson, Gary baker, Doug Henderson , Marty and a few others. They all have accomplished something, and they all think u are a window licking retard. You go ahead and talk up shipman. They only thing he ever accomplished was being an overpriced scammer for what kind of junk you get. But go ahead. You show your ignorance time after time. And when you don't show ignorance you show your a$$. What makes it so funny is that you JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND. ------------- Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 9:00pm
|
I beam is bettef than h beam forged has better grain structure than billet.475.00 a piece.and you to can see and hold a set of shipmans rods. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 9:09pm
|
Why can't you build an engine and get it to last at 1/3 hp per cube? wi is building one with 7 hp per cube. That's 21x the power levels that you still can't figure out. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2013 at 10:35pm
Because pank is full of bullsh!t through and through. He sits and reads formulas and theories from a book on automotive engines and then thinks knows all there is to know! Best thing everyone here can do is ignore the village idiot and stop wasting the forum on him. The only reason he trashes everyones stuff is because he wants to know how its done, hes looking for free info. Until he shows himself to be a true builder and competitor, hes not worth another keystroke. |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2013 at 6:51am
|
And this was the guy who had a big big explanation on light pistons valve train push rods of all things, and how it was sooo crucial, and only certain stuff can meet his demanding criteria , now brags off shipmans beefy rods. "Nice job being consistent, Mitch "........ Said no one, ever! Again more inconsistent that a period on a whore. Well now you have a rod that you may not be able to f up. Of course, you may not have it either, cause as usual, all you can do is talk. I bet you don't. Oh you might have ordered some, but as usual your mouth outruns your brain. Either way enjoy your overpriced boat anchors no matter what size they are. ------------- Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while. |
Posted By: Rod B
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2013 at 7:16am
|
little does mitch know those shipman rods are made of the same materials wi uses for his. odd how the great pankey is bashing barney sometimes, alwayse expressing jealousy to marty and never doing anything on his own. buy all the parts, hire the work done, buy complete engines and claim it's all his from his own personal machine shop. billet rods were fine untill marty showed some, then they were junk, then fine again. jealous mitch should be his forum handle. ------------- for the money there is nothing better than provoking idiots and posers |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2013 at 3:23pm
|
If its the same material then the more material used is still stronger . Ronnies are beefier built. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: unstylish_
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2013 at 3:44pm
|
Rod, that's the best summary of jealous mitchs antics yet ------------- Arguing with mlpankey is very much like arguing with a woman. Only you can teach a woman after a while. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2013 at 6:10pm
|
Billet arent as fine as forged. Has nothing to do with who uses them it has all to do with grain structure. If you guys new what you thought you knew you mjght know enough to be dangerous. According to shipman he is the sole proprietor of the material his rods are produced from ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 23 Feb 2013 at 6:28pm
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |