H3 crawler turning clutches question MORE PICS
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61302
Printed Date: 23 May 2024 at 1:17am
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Topic: H3 crawler turning clutches question MORE PICS
Posted By: warddc
Subject: H3 crawler turning clutches question MORE PICS
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 10:49am
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Which way should the spline shaft slide? I can move the shaft back and forth a 1/4 inch or so. If I can get the retaining clip off, does the shaft slide into the clutch pack or toward the tranny housing? It seems like it is bottoming out in the direction of the tranny housing already. Not sure which way I should be moving the shaft. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Replies:
Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 1:00pm
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I'm sure it slides to the center. May have to take the rear plate off to see what's going on. ------------- Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 3:44pm
| I bought a fiber optic camera today so I could look at the c-clip I am supposed to be taking off. I think I can see it. It looks like it wraps around the flange of the spline hub that is in the clutch pack. Going to have to make a tool to pop that clip off. Can't see it without the fiber optic camera. Have no idea how to get off a spring clip that I can't reach or see. |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 5:17pm
| i have hd4 and had to bend a long thin blade flat screw driver in a 90 degree angel about one inch up on shaft and flatten end with hammer so it can slide under the c clamp. once you feel clip apply pressure and lift out at same time. you can feel with a finger and know when it frees up. i must slide toward the bevel gear rear end to lift clutchs out. |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 5:56pm
| Thanks for the help. I will try bending up a screwdriver and flattening it to make it thinner. |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 7:07pm
| let us know how it goes |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2012 at 10:18am
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Will do. Does anyone know where i can get a brake drum for the turning clutch pack. the left one is serviceable but the right one is worn through. I see minnpar.com says they have them new for $550. ouch!
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Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2012 at 12:00pm
| I have a used brake drum #(am 4864) |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2012 at 3:15pm
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Excellent. What do you mean am 4864? Can you email pics and how much you want for it? ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2012 at 3:38pm
| THE AM4864 is the drum part number and you can see the part number on when the drum is removed from the hub and plate and have no picture and want $60.00 plus shipping |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2012 at 5:24pm
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What condition is the drum in? How worn is the braking surface? ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: dustinmo
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2012 at 6:58pm
| I hate those clips, seem to always be a fight, my paw is pretty big and just doesnt fit in there too well to pop it off, |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2012 at 10:59am
| My h3 brake drum outside and inside is in good condition |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2012 at 12:38pm
IM sent. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
gemdozer wrote:Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2012 at 5:07pm
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Well, I got both turning clutches off. Was pretty easy with the fiber optic camera so we could see the clip and get under it to pry it off. We also made a tool from a piece of 1/4" steel rod. Bent it about an inch from the end to a 90. Then ground the tip really thin like a knife edge. The shafts slide into the center of the tractor. One shaft actually pushes against the other when they are both slid in. When one shaft is all the way into the throw out bearing the other shaft moves out 3-4 inches. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 3:08pm
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Here are some photos now that I have the clutches out. I have ordered parts and am waiting for them to come in. While I am waiting I am cleaning up the clutch wells. before.  after.  here she is in the garage getting tore apart.   ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 3:42pm
| looks real good after cleaned up. where did all the oil in cases come from ? if it is out of the bevel gear end ( rear end ) section then the seal must be down and since the clutches are dry type, if seals are leaking, you will be back at the same job a little later. i just rebuilt one side and had to pull the cap out to replace the seal. not a big job at this point. |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 4:22pm
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I am not sure where the oil is coming from. Could be either the transmissions seals or the final drive seals. It took fifty years to get like that and both plugs were still in the bottom of the clutch wells. The new clutches will outlive me. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 4:36pm
| hope you are right. the plugs are normally open to allow drainage, unless you work in dozer in really wet areas where water could get into the clutches. my plugs were out and the oil out of bevel section ruined the fiber ones. clutches slipped and brake band wold not work. |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 4:48pm
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I can take a look at replacing the bevel section seals while I have it open. I don't have the equipment to change the seals on the final drive. You have to remove the track drive sprocket. Can you get at the bevel gear seals from the turning clutch well? The parts book shows an o-ring to seal around the flange and then an inner seal around the shaft near the bearing. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 7:48pm
| I JUST PULLED MINE AND REPLACED THE SEAL. I TOOK A SCREW DRIVER AND KNOCKED THE SEAL BACK TOWARD THE BEVEL GEAR. TOOK 2 BOLTS AROUND FIVE INCHES LONG AND WITH A 3/4 INCH CARRIAGE TYPE HEAD. GROUND ONE SIDE OF BOLTS FLAT TO BOLT SIZE. GROUND OPPOSITE SIDE ENOUGH TO GET IT TO FIT BEHIND THE FLANGE STOP FOR THE SEAL. PUT A FLAT BAR WITH TWO SLIDING SLOTTED HOLES. PUT TAPS ON AND TOOK SLATE BAR BEHIND BAR, GAVE A LITTLE PUSH AND IT POPPED OUT. SLID CAP OFF THE AXLE AND PUT SEAL IN. LINES BACK UP PUT TWO BOLTS IN STARTED TO EVENLY TIGHTEN TILL I GOT BACK TO BEARING. LIFTED SLIGHTLY UPWARD ON AXLE AND EASED CAP BACK INTO PLACE. THEN PUT THE OTHER TWO BOLTS IN, TIGHTENED GOOD. PUT CONE BACK ON OVER AXLE. TOTAL TIME FOR JOB 1 HOUR. |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 8:26pm
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I was thinking I could just remove the four bolts that hold in the bearing carrier (behind the throw out bearing yoke) and pull it out. The seal for the cross axle is in this bearing carrier. I am not clear on how you replaced the seal from your instructions. Did you replace it from accessing through the pto housing? ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2012 at 8:44pm
| ONCE YOU PULL THE CARRIER YOU WILL NEED TO DRIVE THE BEARING RACE OFF AND THEN THE OLD SEAL. REPLACE WITH NEW SEAL AND THEN PUT BEARING RACE BACK IN . REPLACE CARRIER, PUT 4 BOLTS BACK AND JOB DONE. YOU WILL NOT NEED TO REMOVE BACK PLATE WHERE PTO IS. ALL CAN BE DONE FROM INSIDE STEERING CLUTCH HOUSING. |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2012 at 5:50am
| by the way, what kind of shape were the clutches in when you tore the unit down? were the oil soaked on outside and the fiber plates ? did both sides appear the same ? when i checked mine and discovered the problem, i took the throw out bearing carrier off and took mirror with light to look at seal and found rubber damaged and protruding toward the steering clutch. that is why i had to pull the cap and change mine. it is not a real big job. my e-mail is randal.thornsbury@aol.com send pm and i will give you my home phone # in case you need to call me. |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 7:34am
Thanks for all the help. On the left side everything was oily and the right side was fairly dry. I am going to replace both seals since i have everything open. I am waiting on seals from minnpar now. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 2:04pm
| have you pulled the carriers yet ? |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 2:15pm
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nope. probably tonight. I think that I have to drain the oil in the tranny to get it below the level of the carriers. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 6:24pm
| yes drain the oil. probably a smart thing to replace both sides while down this far. i don't guess having both carriers out at same time will hurt about alignment since axles are left in splines on bevel. |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 6:28pm
| by the way did you go back with fiber clutches or the bi-metalic ? i went with bi-metalic and bought them from webmasters@tractorparts.com . paid 172.35 for 4 bi-metalic clutches and 3 new steel plates. all aftermarket new items. new bands are 145.00 each they are in idaho. bought bearings and seals from napa store. |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 7:45pm
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I went with bimetallic as well. New bands, bearings and seals. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: TREVMAN
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2012 at 8:30pm
| I have to say, nice work. You are going to have a very nice little machine when you are done, Trev. |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2012 at 7:19pm
Right cross shaft bearing carrier out. Left carrier out and all the guts. Now I can check all bearings, races and seals!  ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2012 at 8:42pm
| MAN YOU WENT ALL THE WAY WITH IT. GOOD DECISION. BEVEL SECTION LOOKS GOOD. WHAT ABOUT SEALS. ANY VISIBLE DAMAGE BEYOND WHAT YOU MAY HAVE DONE WHILE PULLING THEM ? WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED ? RANDAL |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2012 at 6:24am
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The seals actually looked fine to me. No damage getting them out. I am in upstate NY. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 12:08pm
Well, I put the clutches back together today. I painted all the exposed metal that I could after using the rotary wire brush on everything. They came out pretty good. Now to get them back in the dozer. Thanks again Gemdozer for the brake drum. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 1:34pm
| nice job friend. keep updates coming. randal |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2013 at 8:23pm
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Nice work on the repair. Pics help out alot! Tracy Martin ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: graham7226
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 3:05pm
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Nice looking clutches. It's good to see pictures of the process, I was just getting ready to tear the clutches out of my HD3 after finding tranny oil on the floor. ------------- Allis HD3 w/ 1066 John Deere 440 ICD Cat 955 12A Traxcavator |
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 4:10pm
| are the clutches slipping ? does the brake band hold good ? i guess the oil came out of drain hole in final bottom. |
Posted By: Eric B
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 5:11pm
Warddc: Wow ..... your work is picture perfect ...... looks like you're working in your living room ...... it's easy to visualize you wearing a suit and tie....LOL. I hope you're OK with a little humor  ------------- Currently- WD,WC,3WF's,2 D14's B. Previously- I 600,TL745,200,FL9,FR12,H3,816 LBH. Earth has no sorrow that Heaven cannot heal! |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 6:20pm
Lol. Thanks. I took the clutches up to the father in laws place to reassemble them. He has a press. Those clutches really are in the living room. They look purdy no? ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2013 at 6:21pm
If you need any info about the process, just ask. I am pretty good at it now that I've done two of them. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |
Posted By: graham7226
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2013 at 7:30am
Not to hijack Warddc's thread, but I have no idea if the clutches work to be honest. I bought the tractor in pieces with a newly rebuilt Buda D175 Engine. I've just got the engine back in and running, but haven't got enough pieces together to try the drive train. I've just noticed the oil on the floor and after taking off the covers, its obvious the seal between the rear end and the final drive housing. I figure they should probably come out and get looked at anyway the right hand final drive house looks good but the left hand one seems somewhat rusty, and the clutch lever has a lot of extra travel. ------------- Allis HD3 w/ 1066 John Deere 440 ICD Cat 955 12A Traxcavator |
Posted By: graham7226
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2013 at 7:34am
Thanks, I'll probably have a question or two. I've got to admit after seeing a picture of your hd3 I'm a little jealous, it looks so easy to work on with the blade. I've got the 1066 loader and it always seems to be in front of whatever you need to get at.
------------- Allis HD3 w/ 1066 John Deere 440 ICD Cat 955 12A Traxcavator |
Posted By: blrott
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2013 at 9:59am
| need help with my h3. both final drives leak. do i drop the tracks, pull the sprockets and remove the rear cover plate. are the shafts held with a castle nut or what. any help would be great. pulled and rebuilt engine and new clutch last summer. gave it a paint job at the same time. thanks. bruce. 920-642-0277. |
Posted By: warddc
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2013 at 2:31pm
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Where is the leak? Are you sure it's the final drive and not the seal from the clutch housing to the clutch well. Could be cross-shaft seals which are easier to replace. ------------- 1962 H-3 Dozer |