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"WD 10."..Is it a 1948 WD serial #?

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Topic: "WD 10."..Is it a 1948 WD serial #?
Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Subject: "WD 10."..Is it a 1948 WD serial #?
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 11:34pm
I should have tried to take a photo of the  rear differential housing, but the lighting was not good.

I looked for the Serial Number of this WD that I saw on a lot, owned by a friend.  STAMPED into the
rear differential housing was "WD10".  Then, just a little beyond that is what looks like a machine cut out about the height of the numbers, but spaced beyond the WD10 far enough that other numbers COULD have been stamped before reaching this cut out.  Again, it is a rectangular cut out, about the height of the letters, but spaced far enough from the WD 10 that it it doesn't look like it was made to alter the serial, because other numbers COULD have been stamped in the space between the WD10 and the beginning of the machined out rectangular box.

What do you guys make of that?    Is it a 1948, serial #10, or, is it something else, like a 1952?  I don't think it is a 1952, because the cutout box is spaced a bit from the WD10 that is stamped into the
rear differential housing.

The tractor is for sale, so I want to make sure that I have the serial correct.

There is a number beginning with 2 on the transmission housing just in front of the shifting handle, on  the side facing the fuel tank  It has some letters like CP and then ends in KC. 

What's your opinion?

Thanks,


Dex


Tractor with lots of photos will be posted in classified.


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Replies:
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 11:48pm
WD10 would be stamped on the top of the differential housing to the right of the left brake cover.

Allis Chalmers Tractor Serial Number Location Images - WD, WD45

http://people.clemson.edu/%7Ewsmth/SNLocat/ACSN.htm" rel="nofollow - Back



The very early WD's had the serial number stamped next to the left brake access cover opposite the seat.  This position can be seen on this image from the WD45 (yep, WD45!) operator's manual.  (Thanks to Steve (Wi) for that info).



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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 11:52pm
CTuckerNWIL.

The WD10 is stamped where the bottom arrow is in the photo that you provided above.

The WD10 is closer to the left in the photo where that bolt is to the far left in the photo, then the cut out is about where the tip of the bottom arrow is.

What do you make of that?  Is it the 10th WD made in 1948, the tenth WD ever made?

Thanks for your help.


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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 11:55pm
NO. WD number 10 would be stamped on top where the picture shows.  The very early WD's had the serial number stamped next to the left brake access cover opposite the seat.

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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2012 at 11:59pm
Thanks, CTuckerNWIL,

I will check that out.  I couldn't see anything on  the access plate when I looked.   I only saw a faint WD10 and then that etched out rectangle where I have described above.  Funny that no numbers immediately follow the WD10, before the etched out rectangle begins.

I will try to post a photo, too.

Thanks,  again,

Dex


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Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 7:07am
Dexter when your out there look at the engine s/n -- left side of block behind air cleaner hose. If it is the original engine to the tractor the number will be close to the tractor number.  Charlie is right on the info that if it would be #10 the number would be on top of housing next to the cover.


Posted By: TedBuiskerN.IL.
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 7:16am
That early WD rear end had some weakness problems, and many were changed to the newer style.  The serial number was then supposed to be restamped in the new area, but many weren't restamped at all.
There are a few other unique things to a 48, for instance the steering shaft support under the fuel tank would be cast iron.  The right foot rest would be like the WC and not have the pedal stop formed into it.  The drawbar holddown would not be a strap with two bolts, but a U shaped round rod with holes for cotter pins to hold it in place.
Any of those could be a clue to a true 48.


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Posted By: Bill Deppe/AC Salvag
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 8:51am
Would the serial number be an actual 10, unless restamped, or didn't it begin with three digits, like WD 101, etc?


Posted By: MNLonnie
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 9:48am
WD's actually started at #7.

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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 10:04am
Originally posted by B26240 B26240 wrote:

Dexter when your out there look at the engine s/n -- left side of block behind air cleaner hose. If it is the original engine to the tractor the number will be close to the tractor number.  Charlie is right on the info that if it would be #10 the number would be on top of housing next to the cover.


1948 WD engine number should be in this range.

200775 - 210718
It was a continuation from the WC
engines because there weren't any major changes to the engine for the WD


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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 4:18pm
Thanks guys,

I am on my way over to that WD, take some photos and try to observe some of the suggestions and comments that you made, while standing at the tractor.


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Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 1:27am
Maybe this will help.

I went to the lot where the tractor is located.

#1.... There was NO number that I could find where the LONG arrow points in the above B&W Serial # location photo.

#2.....this a "fresh from the field" tractor.  It has not been cleaned up. Lots of grime.  I could not find a number on the side of the engine where the breather is, as suggested above. So that I could match it with any other number as mentioned.   The owner said that he would try to clean that spot.


THIS is a photo of the "WD10" is stamped... then see the machined, or, etched out rectangle beside it?







This number   "200931"   and " CP - C - KC" are at the base of  and the engine side of    the gear shift housing. 







RIGHT SIDE FOOT REST





ENGINE # ON RIGHT SIDE







LEFT SIDE FOOT REST





After seeing these photos, are there any further opinions, or, conclusions?


Thank you, guys.  I do appreciate it.

Dex



























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Posted By: Brian G. NY
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 9:27am
It sure looks to me like someone "eradicated" the last 4 digits of the serial number
for some reason.
The engine number you show in your pics is a  casting number.
The engine "serial"  number is stamped on a "boss" in back of the carburetor and will begin with WD.
Armed with  that number, assuming the engine is original, we can determine the year
of the tractor.


Posted By: KGood
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:56am
Something I noticed about my 48 WD is that it has the month/day/year stamped on the inside of the final drive. It does have the smaller foot rest still had the pin hitch when I got it. The brake pedals and hand clutch hanldle were cut off for the corn picker. I never knew that about the steering shaft support I'll check mine out. Mine was bought brand new by my Grandpa in Winamac IN. I don't have the serial # right off but I think it's on top by the cover.


Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 1:17pm
By looking at the foot pedals in the above photos, does it lead you to believe that it is a 1948 WD, or, otherwise?

Thanks,

Dex


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Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 1:22pm
As for the possible "eradication" of the number, leaving only "WD10" visible, what is your supposition as to why that was done?

The paint is consistent, as if  the etching out was done, and the entire piece then painted.
The entire tractor rear end looks to be of the same age, paint, etc.  Grime is constant across the piece.  I doubt that it was intended to be a fraudulent alteration, as the etched out part would be very noticeable to anyone with eyesight.   Thus, leaving just the "WD10" in the serial # location.

It is a mystery to me.


It is not my tractor, so I really don't care what it is.  I just want to come to you guys, with your knowledge, and be able to properly list his tractor for him on craigslist, or, in this forum.  The possibility exists, that if it is actually "WD10" that he will restore it.


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Posted By: KGood
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 1:47pm
I doubt it's a 48 because of the later foot rest and the position of the serial #. You never know though It could be replacement housing and someone put newer footrest on it but not likely


Posted By: Michael Crowe
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 3:15pm
It sure looks to me that you could not stamp another number inbetween the 10 and the grinding using the same spacing.  I have seen a 3 digit serial number WD and it was on top, so if this was truly #10, it would be on top as well.

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Posted By: AC WD45
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 3:49pm
Looks ground out to me. If it was more consistant like a key way slot when who knows but that is clearly the work of a grinder. It is possible that the rear ent was swapped out at one time or another and they ground that number off so the rear ent year wouldn't change the rest of the tracror

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1957 Allis Chalmers WD45
#WD234847
1951 Allis Chalmers WD
#WD88193


Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 8:56pm
Thanks, guys, for all you input.


As suggested above, I went to the tractor today, and found the serial  number of the ENGINE, on a "boss" near the carb.


That number was "WD13".   Then, some distance from it, were four ground out slots, each about the size of numbers.  Four different spaces.  Instead of the long rectangular block that I posted above, that had "WD10" on the rear of the tractor.

As soon as I finish my dinner tonight, I may upload the photo, or, do so in the morning.


Please look at the photo above 0f the gear shift.  What is that number?

Thank you,

Dex




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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 9:29pm
Since the right side foot rest is not from a 48 and both the engine and tractor number have been ground away, I would say somebody was pulling a scam in the past.  There was no WD13 engine number.
I believe that number on the shift tower is a casting number but most of those would be  AM-xxxx-xx


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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 9:35pm
I have a three digit WD, and one other glaring difference is that there is a lot mor space left between the wd letters and where the serial number starts. In a sense, it would be a little like this-     yours appears this way
 
 
WD 10____
Mine looks more like this-
WD___981
If that makes any sense at all


Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:10pm
CtuckerNWIL and OldOrangeIron,

I have to take issue with the "scam" speculation, in regard to the serial numbers.  From my understanding, this tractor came in from the field in a trade with a friend of mine who owns a very small car and implement lot in rural Ripley County, Missouri.  In Ripley County, no one would give you squat for an old Allis Chalmers tractor.  Their only concern would be, "does the damn thing run?".  If you were going to scam someone, wouldn't you fill in the etched out blocs and paint over them, to make it look like it had not be tampered with?

I believe that this tractor has only been traded locally, so no need for a scam, and alteration of serial number.

This guy is the same guy who sold me my WD45.  He said it was a 1958.  That is because it was bought NEW in 1958, so he ASSUMED that it must be  1958 WD45. (There were none made, stopped in 1957, right)    Only until I got on here checking my serial number out to find out that it was a 1957, did I know where to look for my serial number.

He just got this tractor in on a trade late last week.  I checked the place where my serial number is, and it said "WD10".  Today, I wiped off a lot of grime, getting some on my dress shirt in the process, and found "WD31" where the engine serial number should be behind the carb.


As soon as I downsize the photo, I will  upload it.

Thanks, but, down here, the serial number don't mean crap.  I got interested in the serial number when I found the "WD10" on the rear, shown in the photos above.


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Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:19pm
Okay,  Here is the engine number.... "WD31"....four notched out spaces, then "PA"



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Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:27pm
Here she is, the WD with the questionable serial number and pedigree.

NOW, I don't know a lot, but if someone was attempting to pull a serial number scam on someone, to make this a more valuable WD, I doubt, that they would bolt that tool box, or, wooden beer ice chest onto the side of it, put a special homemade thermos jug holder on the left fender, make an angle iron doo-dad contraption for the front end, and weld a back rest contraption to the back of the seat.  Just my opinion.
Smile



NOTE!  the REAR WHEELS are painted YELLOW



Thermos holder is round aluminum doo-dad on left fender.   Snazzy back rest, welded to seat.




What is this number and markings on the gear shift, engine side?




The rear, where it says "WD10" then there is the etched out, block beside it
.






ENGINE # behind car on left side.


   SO, what year WD is it?  I want to know before I put it on Craigslist, and, maybe, this site.  I don't want to mislead anyone.  Need you all's help.  Thanks



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Posted By: Don(MO)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:28am
It's a 1951 or 1952 engine baced on the first two numbers of the six line of numbers on the block. and yes the ser# on the block and ear end of the tractor have been worked over.

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Posted By: KGood
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:37am
I don't know how your going to tell the year. It would be interesting to know why it's like that. Not a bad looking unit either even has wide front.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 7:05am
Dexter, I sure did not even say a word about the numbers being a scam job. I told you what a three digit number looks like on at least one tractor............mine that I have. You do whatever YOU feel is best, I know i would. I can tell you what MY gut would tell me, especially If someone were telling me its tractor number 10.  .......But i will just keep my opinion to myself. My earlier post was not an opinion, it was a fact. There is a difference.
Good Luck.


Posted By: jrjuday
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 7:50am
My dad had a WD that was a demonstrator from a dealer that had the serial numbers machined off like that, and it was done by the dealer. He explained why it was done, but that was over 40 years ago, and I cant remember the details. It had something to do with excess inventory and dealer territories.


Posted By: Brian G. NY
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 8:50am

jrjuday, that is an interesting possibility.

If that was done by A-C in more than just this instance, I'm surprised no one
else has (or has seen) a tractor with the numbers modified this same way.
It seems obvious to me that the last digits of both numbers have been eradicated.
It seems clear that there were digits where the marks are on the engine number.
I tend to agree with Don(MO), it is a '51 or '52.
My '51 WD has a tractor number WD100853 and an engine number WD309267PA.
It has been my experience that the suffix on the engine numbers before  approx. 1951 was GA rather than PA.
If that is indeed true, only more reason to assume it is a '51 or '52.


Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 9:06am
WD31XXXXPa is like Don says, either a 51 or 52 engine block. And with a tractor number of WD10xxxx it would make it a 1951 or a 1952 also.
1951 tractor numbers  72328 - 105181  engine numbers- 278585 - 313931
1952 tractor numbers  105182 - 126931 engine numbers- 313932 - 337332

Unless you can come up with a number stamped on the top edge of the hydraulic pump, which might not be there, I have no idea which of the 2 years it is.



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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: stu(ON)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 9:39am
 
My 1951 WD has no snap coupler.  Yours has a bell and release, which if original, may provide another clue.


Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 2:16pm
Stu, Is that the same number as stamped on the rear end?

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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: stu(ON)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 3:05pm
Yes Charlie.  I maybe have never shown them both together in a past post.


Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 3:14pm
With apologies to OldOrangeIron, and, anyone else whom I may have offended.

I sent this apology PM to OldOrangeIron.   I did not take anything that he said, nor, anyone else said to allege that I was attempting to pass off the tractor as a 1948, when there has been some obvious and curious questions about the serial number.  I was only on an exploratory quest to find our from you guys, what  you thought was up, and to determine it's true age so that I could properly list it on Craigslist, and elsewhere.

The guy who bought it for re-sale, is not computer literate.  Since he is a good guy who sold me my WD45, just put on my new seat shock from TONY Cavanaugh, and is doing some minor adjustments for me now, I offered to put this tractor on Craigslist for him. 

Didn't want to list it with the wrong year, especially, if he had a tractor that was more rare, or, one that HAD been deliberately altered for a nefarious reason.

Had confidence that you guys would be able to figure the serial number out, or, tell me about mods that were done, such as major rear end replacements, etc.


Hi, oldorangeiron,

I hope that I didn't give you the impression that I felt that you were saying that the tractor serial number had been altered in a scam.

If that is how it came across, I do apologize.


I think that it is obvious that the serial number on the rear, and the engine number have both been diddiled with, but "for what purpose" is my question.

I just wanted to head off any speculation that the number had been recently altered for a sinister purpose.   I know the guy who has it for sale, he got it in a trade.  When I went to check the number, I saw the "WD10" on the rear, but the etched out rectangle on the rear looked odd to me.

No one had tried to sell it as a "WD10" serial.  I told him I would list it for him on Craigslist, because he is a bit older and  not really a computer guy.   I didn't want to list it as a "1948", with that etched out block, so that is why I posted photos and info on the forum, thinking that someone has seen this before.


Again, I do apologize if it came across that I was singling out you, or, anyone else on the "scam", scenario.  I didn't want discussion to go off in that direction, as I felt that the number had not been tampered with, at least not recently, and not for to give the tractor a higher value.

Thanks, OldOrangeIron.

Dex


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Posted By: WC7610
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 5:04pm

sometimes the casting number on the axle gives you a "rough" idea of the year of the tractor.

Maybe some guy on the assembly line back in 1950 thought he'd mess with the AC collectors some day LOL


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Thanks



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Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 5:15pm
jrjuday posted

"My dad had a WD that was a demonstrator from a dealer that had the serial numbers machined off like that, and it was done by the dealer. He explained why it was done, but that was over 40 years ago, and I cant remember the details. It had something to do with excess inventory and dealer territories."



Now, that is interesting!  I wish that regression worked, to where we could take you back to that day, 40 years ago, and get that dealers explanation as to why the dealer ground off the numbers on  your fathers tractor. Care for a travel back in time? Smile

The owner never told me that it was a "WD10" serial number.  When I went to look for the serial number I found the "WD 10" on the rear where my number is located on my  WD45. 

The ground out, or, machined out, or, as I have been calling it, the "etched" out block caught my attention.   I felt that an alteration had been done, but I didn't know why.   I ruled out "scam", because like I said earlier, in Ripley County, Missouri, the only thing that matters to a potential buyer, is "does the damn thing run?"  

I wondered if the rear end had been swapped out, and the "WD10" had been stamped in there to match the original number on the replaced rear end.  Then, someone posted that early WD rear ends had been weak and many were replaced, so that scenario, made sense. However, I wanted to be certain, so, I kept asking for you'all's input.

Then, when someone suggested that I check for the engine number, it, too, had been altered.  I wondered why.

Actually, I thought someone on here may have ran into something similar before, and could help me identify it.

jrjuday.... YOU hold the key.  If, 40 years ago, you saw your fathers tractor altered in a similar manner, then there is a reason for the alteration of your father's tractor, and that of my friends tractor.

Just wish I knew the exact reason, now, not so much as to properly list his tractor, but to satisfy my own curiosity.

Does the light yellow painted wheels, instead of cream, like on my WD45 mean anything?


A BIG THANK YOU, to all of you who have contributed to this discussion.   Any further input, is greatly appreciated, as is the input already given to me, by all of you who posted.


THANK YOU!





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Posted By: Brian G. NY
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 7:38pm
Does the light yellow painted wheels, instead of cream, like on my WD45 mean anything?


Actually, both the WDs and the WD-45s came from the factory with orange centers and galvanized rims.


Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 7:51pm
Dexter, Now you gotta go look for the tractor number on top of the hydraulic pump as shown by Stu. His tractor number is also stamped on the top of the hydraulic pump.
 Are the rear wheels power shift or straight set rims? If they are straight set rims, they probably came off a John Deere combine.


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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 8:08pm
Dexter, there is no need for apologies, Its not a big deal, really. I maybe did take your post the wrong way, but that is my mistake, not yours. I did not mean an harm or sense of discontent whatsoever. I hope you figure out what is going on with that tractor, its very interesting to say the least. I am really interested in the possibility of that being a dealer demonstrator, that would make sense in my mind too. Good luck on your quest.
Oldorangeiron


Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 8:57pm
Brian G  & CTuckerNWIL,

Yep, I thought that the yellow centered rims were usual.   Fortunately, I took a photo of the rims.   They do not appear to be power-shift to me. Smile

John Deere rims on an Allis?, "Say it ain't so, Joe !!!"



What was this?.... an ALLIS PARTS TRACTOR KIT, that said on the box..."Some assembly required.  Rims not included."
Clap


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Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by oldorangeiron oldorangeiron wrote:

Dexter, there is no need for apologies, Its not a big deal, really. I maybe did take your post the wrong way, but that is my mistake, not yours. I did not mean an harm or sense of discontent whatsoever. I hope you figure out what is going on with that tractor, its very interesting to say the least. I am really interested in the possibility of that being a dealer demonstrator, that would make sense in my mind too. Good luck on your quest.
Oldorangeiron




Thank you, OldOrangeIron for being so cool.

Dex


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Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 9:10pm
Here is how I posted this tractor on Craigslist.

I wanted to be as accurate as possible on the tractors age.  I could have done it without all the helpful suggestions and information that you ALL provided.

Thank you so very much.  Check it out and see that I have done it with as much accuracy as possible.   At first, I thought that his asking price of $1,500 might be high, but there are a couple other WD's in the immediate area on that same craigslist and one is $1,000 more, at $2,500, the other at $2,200.  http://semo.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=Allis&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=" rel="nofollow - http://semo.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=Allis&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=

With grateful appreciation,

Dex

http://semo.craigslist.org/grd/3236189482.html

http://semo.craigslist.org/grd/3236189482.html" rel="nofollow - http://semo.craigslist.org/grd/3236189482.html



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KEEP YOUR OATH TO DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION

LIVE FREE OR DIE!


Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 9:13pm
More than likely, the original tires were filled with calcium chloride like most Allis tractors of this vintage. If there ever was a leak from any part of the tube, the fluid would eat away the rims if not rinsed off thoroughly and immediately. It could take 50 years for this to happen but when it did, the combine rims were cheaper than replacing the original 28 inch wheels. Look at the tires, I'll bet they are 26" not 28 and they are NOT original to the tractor or any ALLIS for that matter. YEPPER, from a JD combine.

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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF


Posted By: Dexter Peabody
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by CTuckerNWIL CTuckerNWIL wrote:

More than likely, the original tires were filled with calcium chloride like most Allis tractors of this vintage. If there ever was a leak from any part of the tube, the fluid would eat away the rims if not rinsed off thoroughly and immediately. It could take 50 years for this to happen but when it did, the combine rims were cheaper than replacing the original 28 inch wheels. Look at the tires, I'll bet they are 26" not 28 and they are NOT original to the tractor or any ALLIS for that matter. YEPPER, from a JD combine.




Thank you, CTuckerNWIL,

If nothing else, this tractor, with the John Deere Combine rims, and eradicated serial numbers has a very interesting history behind it.

dex


-------------
There is a voice in defense for our Constitution, our rights and our freedoms. http://www.infowars.com   http://www.prisonplanet.com

KEEP YOUR OATH TO DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION

LIVE FREE OR DIE!



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