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What to do with cracked 426?

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Topic: What to do with cracked 426?

Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Subject: What to do with cracked 426?
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 10:29am

The block in our 8030 froze during the last cold spell, I can see at least 3 small cracks on the left side. Would it be best to try to weld or find a good running engine? Tractor has 6600 hrs. it is FWA PS, engine never been apart. Don't know if we want to spend the money on a new engine or Reliance engine with that many hrs. on the tractor. Anyone have a good 426 to put in?

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Replies:

Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 10:36am

Jordan I have a cousin who last winter waited to long to add antifreeze to his john deere farm tractor. We simply ground a groove making a valley along the cracks . Then applied belzona 111 supermetal in the valleys let it cure painted the block and he farmed his tobbaco fields with it this summer with no promblems. Its a relative cheap fix that may work for you also.

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Posted By: Eric[IL]
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 10:41am

My 79' 7060's block has a 4 inch weldment on the upper rear right of the block about inch or 2 below the head gasket. I did not notice it when I purchased it. I have but 200 hours on it since I bought it with no evidence of trouble. So, it must be possible to weld the cast? I have heard some people heat cast to cherry red, then just use a regular 6013 welding rod?

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Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 10:54am

if weld it you need to use a ni rod . arod that has a high nickle content.

Posted By: BrianC,Ont
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 12:04pm

If you are going to weld it, get someone that knows how to weld cast. After it is cleaned like an operating room, then welded, it needs to be covered with heat blankets so it will cool at a slow rate and not crack.

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Posted By: michaelwis
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 12:38pm

GOOD LUCK !!!

Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 4:00pm

Like Brian C says welding cast iron is an art form. It takes nickel rod to do it. Knowing how much to heat it, weld it, and cool it down takes skill. Midwest Cylinder Head in Colo Ia has someone who knows how to weld cast.

How bad does it leak? When I rebuilt my Oliver 60 engine I noticed an expanded spot on the side of the block. It never leaked so I figured it was a casting flaw. It's a crack. It seeped a little after running all day on a tractor ride. I put some GM seal tabs in the radiator and haven't seen any seepage since. Not the most correct way, but it worked for me. Might take a few more than the Oliver, but if it keeps it a workable machine until you trade it/overhaul it, at least you still have the use of it.

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 4:31pm

Midwest Cylinder Head is in Nevada, IA, not Colo. 1700 W F Avenue. 515-382-2791 I believe they use a furnace to control the temperature changes and to anneal the block or cylinder head after welding. They probably also can line bore and mill mating surfaces to correct for warps that happen from that heat treatment.

Gerald J.

Parallelizability sclerenchyma guv stringed gamut tubule enevelope orcein lawyering. Expiring cataphoresis, thereon apodal typhlitis precontact selenious supplicate haustellate.

Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 7:20pm

I stand corrected. I knew they were up that way.

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

Posted By: DreaminGA
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 7:29pm

With that many hours on it, and never been apart, i'd use the Belzona. Make sure you use a grinder or Dremel tool to clean and vee the cracks, so the Belzona has enough surface area to bond with. If the engine still runs right, and isn't getting water in the oil, or on top of a piston, you may get many years out of it with no more problems. My C has several cracks on the manifold side, spanning nearly the entire length of the block. Someone ground it out and filled in with JB weld before I got it. Hasn't leaked yet, and i've run the crap out of it, loaded hard.

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It wasn't me! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me!

Posted By: DaveCinIN
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2009 at 8:10pm

You can grind a groove where the crack is then weld it with bronze rod and an acetylene torch. Same as brazing only with a higher temperature. Thus the term welding. I get bronze rod at TSC if I only need a small amount.

Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2009 at 10:36am

If the cracks are not leaking, leave it alone. That means it is stressed but not broke. An attempted fix can cause more problems than you got.

Now. Why did it need pure water added to dilute the anti-freeze mix? Just curious.

Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2009 at 9:38pm

Cracks are leaking. It was loosing 2-3 gal. in 5-6 hrs. of chiseling, plugged it in when it got cold but apparently the block heater quit. Dont know where it was all leaking.

Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2009 at 10:48pm

Undo the oil plug a little and see if you have water in the oil. To me, that would be a big factor of whether I would try to repair the block or not.

Hurst

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1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours

Posted By: Jack(Ky)
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 4:25am

Someone spoke of Belzona, we have used it at the machine shop where I work a few times to repairs shafts that we couldn't weld on. It is a very good product.JP

Posted By: cotncrzy
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 9:00am

I have got a 505 cummings! they tell me it can be done.

Parallelizability sclerenchyma guv stringed gamut tubule enevelope orcein lawyering. Expiring cataphoresis, thereon apodal typhlitis precontact selenious supplicate haustellate.

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C, WD45,WD puller, 185, 200, 7060 Red Belly, 7060 Black Belly,8010, and a R52 Gleaner, AND PROUD OF THEM!

Posted By: BrianC,Ont
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 10:35am

I know things are different in parts your country, but why wouldn't that tractor have anti freeze in it. Up here there is never any ?, always replace with 50/50 mix.

Parallelizability sclerenchyma guv stringed gamut tubule enevelope orcein lawyering. Expiring cataphoresis, thereon apodal typhlitis precontact selenious supplicate haustellate.

Posted By: jls
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 10:55am

50/50 mix has a lower freezing point than straight ethelene glycol, doesn't the back of the antifreeze jug have a chart anymore?

Posted By: BrianC,Ont
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 11:00am

jls; Yes it does, but you are not supposed to run straight anti freeze. 50/50 mix works for any temps around here. I think maybe they mix it 70/30 up in the Yukon and Alaska.

Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 11:38am

50/50 -30f 70/30 -60f 80/20 -50f 90/10-20f 100% 10f ethylene glycol freezing points.

Posted By: Gary(WI)
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 11:47am

I have several 426 blocks for sale it would just as cheap and easy to replace the block if interested give me a call or email $550 would have block cleaned and crack checked for the same money Gary Roidt 920 253 8192

Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 12:30pm

I have welded more than one block. I have had to weld the first one a second time (didn't get all the crack the first time). If you are looking for a D15 diesel block you may want to take a chance on welding one up. But a 426 is different, especially when you can buy one that is already checked out for a reasonable price. You are only out your labor and maybe gaskets as opposed to welding and how much would some one charge for welding a block and guaranteeing it??????

Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 12:48pm

Straight antifreeze does not freeze. Just another one of those myths...

Parallelizability sclerenchyma guv stringed gamut tubule enevelope orcein lawyering. Expiring cataphoresis, thereon apodal typhlitis precontact selenious supplicate haustellate.

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford

Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 1:28pm

Straight anti-freeze will turn to a slushy crystal mixture that will not move or disapate the heat within the engine. It is more like syurp and will no move in radiator or be pumped through block.

On welding a block the cracks need to be isolated by drilling holes at end of cracks to stop spread, then a high ni-alloy rod used after grinding V to weld into. Short welds to allow heat disapation, removal of sl*g, then short weld in other area , lastly stitching areas together also in short welds, preheating to about 400 F helps as does slow cooling or blanket covering to reduce heat loss. Allstate rod can be found for most materials , SS rod will work on some cast but i like Allstate #8 for most cast work.

Parallelizability sclerenchyma guv stringed gamut tubule enevelope orcein lawyering. Expiring cataphoresis, thereon apodal typhlitis precontact selenious supplicate haustellate.

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Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something.
"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."

Posted By: Dave A
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 2:36pm

My father sells belzona we have fixed many engine blocks. The important this is to stop the crack by find the ends and drilling them( use a dye penetrant). Next drill and tap 1/4 bolt threads every 1/2 " to 3/4". Notch your bolts so they break off in the block. The tension it creates in the crack is important. "V" the crack out just a little. Clean the block with the belzona cleaner and heat. Then fill in the crack with Belzona. Mix like it tells you to. One part of the mixure one way or the other makes a big difference.

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Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game.
Winston Churchill

Posted By: Dave A
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2009 at 2:38pm

If you weld it with a Nirod. still find the crack ends and drill and tap the block along the crack. And make sure it is clean.

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Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game.
Winston Churchill

Posted By: Rawleigh
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2009 at 11:40am

Check out this process and read their information about welding cast iron as well. It works well.

http://www.locknstitch.com/ - http://www.locknstitch.com/

Posted By: phlynt
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2010 at 1:03pm

I have an allis chalmers 426 Ci that is in an N5 combine I stiopped using. The engine has 3200 hours on it and runs good. If your interested give me a call. The last ime I started it was lst summer when I drove into the corner of the shed. I have been taking parts opff the combine to fix a few thing on my new N5 that I plan to sell when I get everything fixed on it. Flint Grahl 920-251-6510.

Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2010 at 5:01pm

Antifreeze should be run year-around.....it also raises the boiling point.

Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 12 Mar 2010 at 5:23pm

Anti freeze also has rust inhibitors. Even a weak mixture of anti freeze will not break blocks or do other damage because it remains slushy enough to flow to relieve pressure when crystallization begins as it freezes. You run into problems after you start the engine because the slush does not want to flow through the rad and the engine soon overheats and boils over. Been there, done that

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Jack of all trades, master of none