12 volt regulator
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48479
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Topic: 12 volt regulator
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Subject: 12 volt regulator
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2012 at 7:24pm
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I put a new 12 volt voltage regulator on my D15. Polarized it per instructions by touching Bat. to Gen. post. It will charge at high idle, but when you lower it to slow idle it discharges. How do you set the regulator to charge properly? It is a Delco regulator. Thanks Tracy Martin ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Replies:
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2012 at 7:34pm
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Tracy, I found this on a motorcycle forum and thought you might get a kick out of it. Or maybe not?
1. Adjusting the mechanical regulator is very much a trial and error experience, with the emphasis on error.
2. After making your initial adjustment, you will find that the voltage changes when you replace the cover because the cover is steel and it influences the magnetism of the relay, so you have to make another adjustment, replace the cover, check the voltage etc. etc.  3. Then, you have to check the voltage under various load / no load conditions, like, with the headlight on and off and the battery fully charged and right after starting. 4. Then, you have to check the voltage at high RPM, like, above 4,000 or equivalent highway cruise speed because the alternator is capable of producing more amps at high RPM's so therefore the field current, which is what the "regulator" is regulating, becomes very sensitive to change.  5. Then you have to check the voltage at various temperatures because the resistor in the regulator changes its value when it gets hot. 6. Also, the regulator will produce a different output depending on the condition of the slip rings, so you have to clean the slip rings often to maintain any consistency.  7. Also, the relay and the resistor in the regulator draws quit a bit of current, which deprives the rest of the electrical system of a few amps.  8. While doing these adjustments, you will have to start and stop the engine about 100 times and wait each time for the battery to recover before checking the voltage. The engine will overheat and boil the oil, necessitating a complete engine overhaul...  So, like RG says.....here are the steps to a happy and trouble free regulator life: 1. Carefully remove the 35 year old mechanical regulator. 2. Sell it on Ebay to someone who has not read this. 3. Use the proceeds of #2 to buy a new solid state regulator with a one year warranty for $20 or less. 4. Install the solid state regulator and observe a perfect 14.5 Volt reading...  5. Use the money left over from #2 and #3 to buy a six pack of your favorite brew..  6. Ride. Enjoy. Life is simple... 
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2012 at 8:14pm
Thanks Charlie! That makes me feel good! Tracy Martin ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: D-17_Dave
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2012 at 8:51pm
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Tracy, I've found that older regulators were adjustable with little wheels on the tabs that hold the spring tension on the various points. I've had some success adjusting regulators by placing my finger on the springs one at a time to add tension to the points. I use this reaction to gauge what adjustment to make by slightly bending the tabs that hold the spring tension. You should be able to adjust the cutout voltage so the regulator drops out sooner. And as stated above replace the cover and do a finale test.
On a side note I am dissapointed in new regulators due to the steel rivets on the bottom that crimp the resister down. These rivets rust and the regulator fails. I have started to coat this area with some grease, (just the edge of the tab on the resitor) to prevent such an obvious failer. ------------- Yea, I can fix that..... |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2012 at 10:09pm
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The regulator isn't the problem. The generator needs to turn faster, needs a smaller pulley. The discharge comes from the ignition load and the reverse current it takes to make the cutout open. With a really good ammeter I found a reverse current just above engine idle in a VW of up to 10 amps (6 volt). When I swapped engines for one with a 12 volt generator, I built a solid state 6 volt regulator with diode for the cutout and solved that reverse current. But the fundamental that will improve your situation is to turn the generator shaft faster. A diode cutout can help cut the reverse current but makes it bit harder to charge at low engine speeds. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2012 at 10:13pm
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Gerald, It is the factory generator that worked for years. It has the original pulley on it. Why would it now cause a problem. It worked great up until it stopped charging. I am puzzled, are the regulators not adjustable? Any help appreciated. Tracy Martin ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2012 at 12:41am
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Regulators are not intended to be adjusted in the field. I have successfully. Before testing the regulator check the circuit to see if the field is connected to the A terminal or to ground. Then try applying full field voltage depending on the generator internal connections. If the field is connected to the A terminal of the generator, the F terminal gets grounded for full output, but if the field is grounded intentionally (the other circuit option) the F terminal gets connected to the A terminal for full output. The wiring diagram in the manual may show the generator internal connection. Its crucial to know it because if the regulator is supplying armature voltage to the F terminal and you test by grounding that terminal you will probably burn the contacts in the regulator. Applying full field should get maximum output from the generator, that's why its a good test if you can do it without frying the regulator. If the generator is wired so the regulator grounds the field, then a jumper wire from A to F won't do any damage but won't increase the output. And grounding the F terminal should increase the output if the regulator isn't doing its job. The brushes could be worn down so short they are only touching the commutator part of the revolution. There could be a problem with one field coil shorted out to ground to reduce the output or a ground in the armature. Tt may be time for the generator to be tested at an automotive electric shop if you can find one. The regulator voltage is adjusted by adjusting the spring tension on the clapper of the coil with the fine wire. Bending to increase the spring tension raises the voltage. I raised the voltage on a nearly new replacement regulator so it charged decently after starting and then tapered to zero current while my volt meter showed about 14 volts. 14.2 volts is optimum with the battery current tapered to zero. More than 14.2 is too high, less than 13.8 will never get the battery fully charged. And that regulator has been working fine for me for over 20 years. Way long ago, regulators had screws and lock nuts for adjusting the spring tensions, but that cost too much money to build and could vibrate loose. A bent spring bracket is not harder to adjust at the factory and stays in adjustment longer. Gerald J. |
Posted By: GregLawlerMinn
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2012 at 9:18am
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The folks at the gennie repair shop inform me that the new regulators need some tuning to properly charge on a tractor. They set up the gennie and VR on the bench (with meters) and tune the VR at various speeds when one buys a new VR from them. Thus far I have had good lick with their VRs. Found this out after a few new VRs did not work propwely. Gerald...can you share the make/model # of the solid state Voltage regulator with us? The ones I have seen seem to be replacements for the ones mounted inside alternators. ------------- What this country needs is more unemployed politicians-and lawyers. Currently have: 1 D14 and a D15S2. With new owners: 2Bs,9CAs,1WD,2 D12s,5D14s,3D15S2s, 2D17SIVs,D17D,1D19D;1 Unstyled WC |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2012 at 9:34am
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might find some info on VR adjustment in this site , lot of good info on AC Delco charging systems . http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/electrical/49dr324/index.htm" rel="nofollow - http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/electrical/49dr324/index.htm
------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2012 at 11:10am
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I've generally built my own solid state regulators starting about 1968. My first one used all transistors, my second one used an IC, and my latest one (riding on the Chinese locomotive of the Boone & Scenic Valley) uses a very common IC and a power FET. I did one for an AC 120 volt alternator for computer power isolation once too. Some of the metal cased regulators from auto stores are solid state inside and not adjustable or returnable. They are not as robust as the older magnetic regulators but have a good change of better precision in the regulated voltage which often leads to far better battery life. Back in the 70s the SAE standard said acceptable charging voltage was 13 to 15 volts. 13 volts means a battery is never fully charged and 15 volts means the battery is cooked. I know Steve in NJ has solid state cutouts, and I suspect he has solid state regulators to fit most all vintage tractor generators. Both are polarity sensitive and can't be adapted to reversed polarity and survive. Gerald J. |