Run fine and quit
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47815
Printed Date: 23 Aug 2025 at 9:07am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Run fine and quit
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Subject: Run fine and quit
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 8:16am
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All... I have a problem with my B. It will start up nice, and run and idol. But after about half hour it will quit. The motor will sputter a little and then just shut down. I can restart it okay and it will run fine. If I pull the choke out all the way, sometimes it will run better. My other B will do the same but seems to be worse. After about a half hour it will start to do the same thing. I will restart it and it will run for about 5 min and shut down again. Is the problem Mag, Carb, ?????? Thanks Rich
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Replies:
Posted By: Pa.Pete
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 8:38am
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If it runs better with the choke then it sound like some type of fuel restriction to me. It could be in the carb, sediment bulb (check the screen) or something in the tank. Just some suggestions, I'm sure there will be more. Pete
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Posted By: scott
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 8:52am
| I'm agreeing with Pete. Probably have crud in the tank that takes a while to plug up the tank outlet fitting. Turn it off and the suction ceases and the crud releases back into the tank. |
Posted By: Chuck(ONT)
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 9:37am
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Air vent on gas cap could be plugged, run it with cap loose to check.
------------- Never take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway! 1C 1 WD45 1 AC180 |
Posted By: George Davenport
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 10:43am
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I went thru this battle about 2 years ago on my B. After not being able to solve it in the ignition system, I sent the carb. to Steve at B & B ( who is a vendor on this site) and he cleaned and rebuilt it and when it was returned, It worked perfect and never had a cut-off since. I could almost time it cutting off at 45 minutes. I'm sure you will have other post, but would bet it is in the fuel system.
------------- Life is what happens while you are making plans for the future |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 10:51am
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If choking helps, its almost sure to be fuel starvation. A coil or condenser heating up won't recover rapidly. A fuel restriction can be anywhere from the screen in the tank to the float bowl. And there can be multiple restrictions in the vintage tractor. Junk in the tank can float to that screen above the shut off valve or sediment bowl. The screen in the sediment bowl can be nearly plugged with varnish and dirt. As can the pipes. Most carburetors include a screen on the inside end of the inlet adapter and that screen is notorious for plugging. I've seen one plugged so solidly it wouldn't pass air at 60 psi. Then there's a sticky float needle or float and the gas gap that's not venting. The gas cap though will shut down more rapidly with a full tank than a near empty tank. Besides running a long time a good check is when the float bowl has a drain plug. Pull the drain plug and there should be a steady stream of gasoline about the size of a pencil in diameter for as long as there's gas in the tank. Any less shows a restriction to be found. Don't smoke while doing this test. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 11:35am
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Thanks guys That is what I'm thinking it is the carb... Rich
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Posted By: Boogerowen
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2012 at 12:00pm
| Bet the problem is between the carburator and the gas cap....... |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 12:16pm
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Well fellas I had a chance to work on my B this morning to see if I could fix the problem. I took out the old Champion plugs that were in there (Dad put them in there) and replaced them with AC 303's. I cleaned out the sediment bowl. It had a lot of dirt in the bottom. I cleaned out the air "cup" and put new oil in there. Started her up and it seemed to run great. So I though I'll try mowing with it. I have a Woods belly mower under it. Started out good. and then all of a sudden it quit. So I got the crank out gave to cranks and it started right up. I went another 20 feet and she quit again. Hmmmm......So I got the crank in her and she started right up. So what do you guys think I should next. I didn't want to take the carb off until I was sure I can get it back on and not have any trouble. It seems to run but then for no reason it will cut out... Thanks Rich
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 12:23pm
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Remove the drain from the bottom of the carb bowl and see if you have fuel flowing free for a minute or two. You may want to catch this and please don't smoke:) If the fuel slows down or stops, you have a restriction somewhere between the float seat and the gas tank. If it flows free, you have a problem in the carb itself.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: BoBMeL
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 12:49pm
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Had a similar problem on my d 12 it ended up being a nozzle in my carb it looked like you took a knife long ways down a straw replaced that and took pea gravel to my gas tank and then shook for a while cleaned it out let it dry out. Put some sea foam in the tank and ran it wide open for a while and haven't had a problem. That was a year ago hope this helps |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 3:37pm
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Okay.....I opened up what looked like a "wing" nut on the bottom of the Carb. I had flow for just a little bit and then it just bubbled a little and flow was really faint. So I opened what looked like a bolt in the bottom and got a good stream for about 20 seconds. Then it just trickled a little. I don't know if I was imaging things but the gas looked dirty. So how hard is it to take the carb off and clean it. I am afraid of losing my settings on the pin valves (idle and such). Or do they stay set when you drop it down from the manifold. Rich
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Posted By: BoBMeL
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 4:02pm
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What kind of carb do you have, if its a zenith model they are easy to remove and take apart ive done it on mine a couple of times also make sure you check your fuel line and back itright have rust in it |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 4:09pm
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Bob I think that is what it is. Do you suppose the copper line that comes from the sediment bowl has restriction? I never took one off but I am willing to give it a try. Rich
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Posted By: BoBMeL
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 4:29pm
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Yes sir if it is a copper line of pull it off run some cleaner through it and maybe if your AChas a sediment bowl I'd clean it out real good. I use seafoam. Fuel additive sold at any auto parts store or walmart. Also my grandfather told me that due to the shape and thickness of gas tank, not to leave in llsudirec t sun due to evap and condensation. Don't know if true buton |
Posted By: BoBMeL
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 4:30pm
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Don't know if its true bit it works for me I hope this helps if you need anything else let me know glad to help |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 4:37pm
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Thanks Bob Anyone else have any encouragement.... Rich
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Posted By: George R. (MN)
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 5:29pm
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Rich,
Shine a flashlight into your gas tank. Sounds like a lady bug or muddabber is plugging up the fuel line....a friend of mine had a problem similar to what you have described on his old C he uses for mowing. After he replaced everything he could think of his neighbor shined a flashlignt into the tank and lo and behold an asian beetle was plugging the fuel line at the tank! ------------- My tractor is not leaking oil, it's just marking it's territory! |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 5:39pm
Don't worry about taking the carb off until you have a good flow of gas to it. If you don't have a solid stream running continuously from the carb drain, you have a blockage somewhere between the float seat and the gas tank. First, is the sediment bowl shut off opened? If it is start by taking the gas line off at the carb and see if you have a good flow of gas from the tank to the end of that line. If not, follow it back and find the obstruction. If you have good flow at the carb fuel line, you may have something in the carb itself but check the flow from the tank first before you pull the carb off. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Rich Steiner wrote:Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 6:02pm
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Thanks guys I'll let you know how I make out tomorrow. Rich I am also going to see if I can get some oil in the spark plug holes on my other froze up B. Always something.... Rich
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 6:05pm
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There is a screen usually on the inlet pipe adapter to most carburetors. It often gets plugged by varnish and dirt. Next check, unhook the fuel line from that fitting and see if you get a good flow of fuel. Lines can be filled with varnish and dirt to the point very liss gas will pass just like screens and tank inlet. Lines can either be replaced or reamed with a wire and carburetor cleaner solvent. Didn't I say all this last week? Gerald J. |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 6:56pm
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Sorry Gerald..... I forgot that you posted. I need to get my head out of my .... I will try to see if there is good flow. I have a couple of tractors that are doing this... Will let you know.. Thanks Rich
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Posted By: David G.
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2012 at 7:39pm
| I have had a similar problem with a CA I recently purchased. This ethanol blended gas we use now will mess up a carb if it sets too long. Be sure to treat your gasoline with sta-bil. It seems to preserve the gas for a year or so. |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2012 at 12:07pm
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Okay, I did what you fellas suggested and I had good flow in the fuel line So I took the carb off, and cleaned it with carb cleaner. There was a good amount of crude in there, especially where the air cleaner hooks up to the choke. Got it all cleaned up put it back together, Started it up and it really ran good. No misses or nothing. So I thought that did it. Started mowing and it quit. I tried to start it and it would not start. Then it would run and quickly quit. Like it was out of gas. 1. Would the float be not opening? 2. There is a spring on the rod that controls the throttle by the carb. One end is hooked to the rod and the other isn't hooked to anything. Were does that spring hook to? Thanks Rich
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2012 at 5:54pm
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Float can be dragging on the side of the float bowl, but I BET its that screen on the inlet fitting. Been there. Gerald J. |
Posted By: AL35U
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2012 at 8:16pm
| Start at the tank and work your way down. Just from experience I'd bet you find it before you get to the carb. Gerald's probably right, the screen on the inlet. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2012 at 8:59pm
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Okay, I did what you fellas suggested and I had good flow in the fuel line So I took the carb off, and cleaned it with carb cleaner. How long did you let it run? If there is something in the tank floating around, it might take 10 minutes before it plugs the outlet. I had a guy put gas in the CA once with a Clorox jug. The little cardboard gasket from the lid got in the tank and gave me fits till I found it. You never knew when it would run 10 seconds or 10 minutes. There was a good amount of crude in there, especially where the air cleaner hooks up to the choke. Did you take the nozzle out and clean it? How about all the little passages in the carb, they all need to be clean and free of any loose particles. Did you clean and inspect the inlet where the fuel line hooks up all the way through to the float seat? Got it all cleaned up put it back together, Started it up and it really ran good. No misses or nothing. So I thought that did it. Started mowing and it quit. I tried to start it and it would not start. Then it would run and quickly quit. Like it was out of gas. Right there you need to immediately remove the drain plug from the bottom of the carb bowl to see if you still have fuel. 1. Would the float be not opening? It's possible but I would say not likely. 2. There is a spring on the rod that controls the throttle by the carb. One end is hooked to the rod and the other isn't hooked to anything. Were does that spring hook to? The other end hooks to a manifold stud. this is called the anti surge spring and would have nothing to do with your engine dieing. Do you have the original steel fuel line from the sediment bowl to the carb? Some people replace this with a rubber hose which can cause problems and some add an in-line filter which can cause more problems if it isn't for a gravity flow system. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2012 at 11:15pm
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A good test for float needle and seat with the carburetor off and partly disassembled, is to blow with mouth at the fuel inlet. (cleaning makes it more pleasant). With the top half the carburetor right side up, gently raising the float should stop air flow and lowering the float MUST allow air at lung pressure to flow. Worn and new needles have been known to stick. Worn ones from wear, new ones from a rubber tip. That also checks the screen I keep harping on. A second check can be made with the top of the carburetor upside down. Same pressure source (lung) the weight of the float should shut the needle valve solidly, but lifting the float a little bit should allow lung pressure to pass, though it may take a bit more pressure to lift the needle when its not hooked to the float arm. Simple tests that take no special test equipment to check for flow with little pressure and for flow shutoff to prevent flooding. Floats tend to stick down more than up, but floats can also not float because of leaks. But that causes the engine to flood and it doesn't start. Usually just sitting with a float not floating the float bowl overflows. Different symptoms. On a neighbors, JD 2020 that screen would only allow enough fuel to get to the carburetor to run for a few seconds and then only if choked to the limit. Happened on a day when I had borrowed it and him to prune a walnut limb hanging over the LP tank. When I took out the screen fitting, I couldn't blow air through the screen with the 60 psi air in my portable air tank. He couldn't find a replacement so we ran a drill through the screen while JD delivered a new screen in a few days, and then the tractor ran fine. CHECK THAT SCREEN! Gerald J. |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2012 at 6:52am
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Gerald..... Thanks for the info. I forgot the screen!! Were the intake is there is a 90 degree fitting. Does this screw off? I am going to try this anyway.... What about the spring hooked on the rod. I have been running with out it for years I guess. I never saw it until I took the carb off. I guess I really don't need it hooked up. Will try those things and let you know... Rich
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2012 at 7:43am
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Usually the screen is on a straight fitting that the elbow attaches to. Take off the elbow, then unscrew that straight fitting. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2012 at 7:44am
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Thanks buddy, I'll let you know what I find.... Rich
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2012 at 3:57pm
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Do you have an air compressor and a blow gun? Try blowing some air back through the fuel line into the fuel tank. I found a big dead bumble bee in my tank once. Never leave the cap off the tank when you run out and go after a can of gas. That bumble bee must have seen the open fuel tank, flew in and died from the fumes. Every so often that dead bee would block the flow of gas out of the tank to the carb. Also take that elbow off that the fuel line attaches to on the carb. I had a dead fly make it all the way through the fuel tank and lines to the inlet side of the carb on another tractor. Same story, the fly was blocking the flow of gas from the fuel line to the float valve in the carb. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2012 at 4:24pm
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Okay here is what I found. I took the elbow off and took a light and shined in the hole, I didn't see any screen. I didn't see any fitting on there except the 90 degree. So I put it back together. Now I started it up and it started real nice. No misses. I started out to mow. This is what I found, when I had it almost to an idle it would run fine. I would try to push it up a notch and it would spit and sputter and sometimes quit. It would start right back up though. Two cranks on the handle and it would start. That tells me it is not electrical. The next thing I'm going to do is take it back off and put in a new needle valve and get a new spring on the throttle rod. I looked on my other B and it has a spring connected from the throttle rod to the bolt in the manifold. I am going to try the "blow test" too. I think it is in the float and valve. It acts like it can't get any gas when the engine asks for more power. Rich
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Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2012 at 6:56pm
| I'd unscrew the whole sediment bowl assembly from the tank and clean it and the tank with compressed air and carb cleaner. When you cleaned the carb did you get the air/fuel adjustments set back right? |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2012 at 8:54am
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No I didn't mess with the settings I didn't think I had to. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2012 at 3:41pm
| The adjustment screws should be removed and the screws and the openings need to be cleaned well when you clean a carb. Your problem could be adjustments but if it runs good for ten minutes and then starts to run bad probably not. Next time it starts to act up choke it a little and see if it helps. If it does it could be an adjustment. I still think you have a fuel delivery problem. HTH Thad |
Posted By: Rich Steiner
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2012 at 8:44am
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Thanks Thad for you reply. I'll try again and let you know what I find... Rich
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