HD-3 running now but no reverse?
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43363
Printed Date: 26 Jul 2025 at 7:23pm
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Topic: HD-3 running now but no reverse?
Posted By: hilltop615
Subject: HD-3 running now but no reverse?
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 12:33pm
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When i started the motor was stuck due to being out in the weather and rain going through the exhaust. I pulled it down and now have it running but i have found the reason it was parked in the first place. I can move the shuttle stick forward and the tracks move forward like they are supposed to but when i pull the shuttle to reverse i get nothing. The shaft that runs from the bottom of the shuttle lever into the rear end is turning smoothly forward and backwards but whatever it does after that i guess is where my problem lies. Does anyone know what kind of issue i might be looking at? I haven't got a repair manual for it yet so i don't know whats in the rear end that could be causing this. If anyone has any ideas that might be helpful or knows of a common problem that might be causing this i would greatly appreciate the help. also if anyone has a manual they would sell or knows of a good place to download one from that would be great. Someone said a place called "Minnpar" might be a good place to order one but if there is a place to download one i could get on with this a little quicker. Thanks for any help.
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Replies:
Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 1:30pm
| just a thought but, have you checked to make sure that the transmission is in first gear and not third. i changed engine in my hd4 and thru it all the trans. was put in third gear. had me worried for a while till i figured it out. also check fluid levels. randal |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 2:11pm
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I didn't know that it needed to be in 1st gear in order for reverse to work so i went down to make sure that it was in 1st and tried again but still nothing. The fluid level is a little bit low (on the add line) so i will have to pick some up in town (does the shuttle just take regular hydraulic/transmission oil?). When i went back down i was easing the shuttle lever back and forth and noticed that it moved a lot easier into the reverse position than it did forward. Then when i moved it back into forward it all the sudden got easier to move just like it is in reverse but now it stays in forward. Even with the shuttle in the neutral position as soon as i release the clutch it starts moving forward. Does this mean i have something broken or stuck, or is this something that a low fluid level might cause. Thanks for the info. Luke
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Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 2:56pm
| kind of sounds like the adjustment on the shuttle lever is not centering up. if it is moving forward when lever is in neutral. there could be some blockage in the shuttle controls. may need to clean some how. randal |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 3:53pm
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It could be something like that. It's just weird that neutral and forward both seemed to be working as they should and then all the sudden all i have is reverse no matter where the lever is. I guess i just need to order a manual so i know whats in there. I guess i was just hoping i could find a downloadable version i could buy but have had no luck with it. The dozer sat for probably4-5 years so it's a definite possibility that something in there could be clogged up and need cleaning like you said. I know nothing about the inside of the shuttle unit so i didn't know if there was anything to clog or if it was all mechanical. I saw an inspection/service cover on the opposite side of the shuttle unit (right hand side) so maybe i'll have a look in there tomorrow and see if there is any visible problems or buildup unless some one gives a better idea between now and then. Also are any of the paper service manuals better than the other? I've seen 3 or 4 different ones. Thanks again.
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Posted By: Randaleky
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 4:04pm
| where are you coke ? i know you can help. randal |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 4:08pm
| Okay keep in mind i'm very knew to the forum but i have seen several post calling on "coke" is this what your supposed to do when you get stuck and don't know what to do next lol? |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 4:14pm
| Your HD3 is basically a D15D tractor with tracks. Sounds like the tapered set screw in shuttle shift lever has worked out or shift fork is worn or broke. If it stays in forward or reverse only I would check it first. Heavy or cold tranny fluid will turn the shaft until warmed up. HTH Tracy Martin |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 4:24pm
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 4:26pm
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Tracey, Can the screw and shift fork be checked without pulling the shuttle unit out of the machine or am i going to have to pull this thing down?
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Posted By: D-17_Dave
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 4:28pm
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I agree with Tracey. I'd check out the set screw on the shaft first. If the shaft isn't moving inside the lever then I'd pull the side cover off the right side and give things a look see. The shuttle control should stroke the linkage the same aount bothe directions. Something has come loose or all the clutch disc's in the clutch pack have worn or a couple pf them have come apart. ------------- Yea, I can fix that..... |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 4:33pm
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Dave is telling you correct what to check. Let us know what you find. Tracy Martin
------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 4:33pm
| The shaft is moving with the lever like it should as far as i can tell. When i mover the lever it kinda feels like its not moving anything inside the case if that makes since. I will double check the set screw tomorrow but i feel like the problem is inside the case somewhere. |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 4:43pm
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Thanks for the help guys! I think i will have time to run out to the property and fool with it some tomorrow afternoon so i'll check back in then with details. Hey Tracey, you don't have an extra manual you want to sell or know of a place in our area that i could go order/buy one from do you?
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 5:15pm
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H-3 isn't in my class of I had one machines .. So can not help much on this . I had the HD4 with the Hyd shuttle and on mine when I lost reverse it was a broken spring in the valve . When lever was moved to reverse spring would not move the valve spool into right port selection. Afraid any info would be a guess only . Minnpar might have the repair manual for it. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 5:20pm
| Thanks i'll put a call into Minpar Monday morning unless someone comes up with an online edition. I've also got an AC500 forklift that i need to see about getting the pump rebuilt or getting a kit if theres no special tools required so maybe they will have everything i need there. |
Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 5:24pm
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I have a 1968 HD-3. The shuttle is a clutch pack and will provide forward and reverse in all four gears. When the lever is moved the clutch pack is compressed allowing the tractor to move in the selected direction. If you move the lever forward and into reverse you can feel the clutch pack compress and snap into the forward and reverse positions in the shuttle. It runs in oil for cooling purposes, however it is a mechanical clutch. Our tractor would not move forward so I split it last summer and replaced the plates in the clutch pack. It is the same system as is used in the I-60 and 600. Our 615 uses the identical system. If the clutch is not worn out, you will be able to feel the snap as it goes into forward and reverse positions.
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Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 5:32pm
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One more thing regarding the procedure. You have to move shims in the shuttle to obtain .040 gap in the clutch pack in order for the clutch to release properly. Do not discard any shims. The Maintenance manual dedicates about 3 pages to the procedure. You cannot do it without following the written procedure. When you split the tractor make sure you mark the shift fork / shaft. It you turn it 180 degrees the lever will be indexed below the operators platform. |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 5:36pm
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Ages, Is are there 2 clutch packs? 1 pack for forward and another for reverse? Because when i got it running this morning i could put it in gear and push the shuttle lever forward and it would kinda lurch or snap as it started moving forward. Even with the engine turned off and out of gear when i pushed the stick forward i could feel it engaging the clutches like you described but i didn't feel that in reverse. Now it's like i pushed the stick forward and engaged the clutches and they stuck there because even when i bring the stick back it still wants to go forward. Thanks for the help your description at least gives me a mental image of what i'm dealing with.
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Posted By: Ages Cat
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 5:38pm
| The shift fork uses two woodruff keys to connect it to the shuttle shaft. As I said earlier you will be able to feel the lever and determine if the shuttle is working. My clutch packs came from Kevin @ Ilinni. About $350.00 for the new discs. |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 5:42pm
| Thanks, i'll look into it and post what i find. I was hoping to not have to split this thing but it's looking inevitable. |
Posted By: D-17_Dave
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 7:09pm
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The clutch pack is one section. In this section you have 2 sections full of drive discs and driven discs seperated by the tension mechanism. the tension control is moved by a fork on the inside of the shaft as you move the lever control. The thing is that this clutch pack is the same as a D-15 tractor's high/low clutch pack. This is refered top as a Power Director clutch. Any D-15 manual will give you details of how this setup works. High section is forward and low section is reverse on the industrial and tracked versions. The reverse is controlled by an extra counter shaft forward of the PD clutch inside the torque housing. Sounds complicated but it's very simple and works very well. You may have problems in the counter shafts but since you don't feel the normal resistance in the lever when you pull backwards then you likely have a problem in the linkage for the clutch pack or in the clutch pack itself. When you pull the cover off it may be difficult to see all the details but you should be able to feel as much as you see. Provided you understand what your feeling and understand how it all works. I hope this information has helped with the later.lol ------------- Yea, I can fix that..... |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 7:51pm
| Perfect Dave! I should be able to pretty well figure out between taking the inspection cover off and your explanation. I will dig around some and see what i come up with. Once i get the cover off what your telling me will probably make perfect since. I've got quite a bit of mechanical and fabrication experience so i'm not scared to tear it down but the way my shop is built i can't get the dozer in it so whatever i do i'm going to be out in the cold with it. I'm from Florida so i don't do all that well with the cold weather lol. Thanks everyone for all the help!! |
Posted By: donw
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 9:14pm
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I went through something very similar on my HD3 only it wouldn't move forward. When I split the dozer in half, I found the large C-clip had come off and was laying in the bottom of the case all mangled up. When you pull that side cover off, leave the 2 hydraulic lines connected because it's easier. Remove all the bolts and the cover will pull outward and you will be able to see the clutch pack. My thought is that if all the shims are in the original location (3 in the middle section and 5 in each forward and reverse section) and you have no reverse than it is something other than worn discs. Mine was the broken C-clip but yours may be something to do with the levers inside the case. Here's some photos of the clutch pack for your viewing pleasure. The second photo show the mangled C-clip and the last photo is what it looks like installed. If you do end up splitting the machine in half, use 2 lengths of 1/2" all thread rod like as shown in the bottom photo. It'll keep the rear section from wanting to rotate upside down and will make your life easier. Don in WA   
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Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2012 at 9:37pm
| Thanks for the pictures. At least it doesn't look like theres a ton of tiny parts and springs to keep track of in there. I've got a JCB telescopic forklift that is big enough to lift and move it around to get it up off the ground a bit and get the tracks off and split it but i'm gonna have to figure out somewhere dry and preferably warm to do this. I may have to try and figure out how to get it moved to my house where i can get it in the barn. |
Posted By: brandon154
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 3:34pm
| Hilltop, I've got about five original manuals for the H-3 and HD-3, I still need them, but I could possibly make some copies and send them to you if you still need them. There are parts manuals, repair manuals, and a general service manual. |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2012 at 10:47am
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Brandon i ordered a repair manual the other day so i guess we'll see how accurate it is. If it's okay i would still like to have a copy of the parts manual and would be more than happy to send you money for the shipping and copying cost. It's not a rush on it so if you find yourself with nothing to do one rainy day and want to make the copies just let me know how to get you the money. Thanks Luke
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Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2012 at 11:09am
| Okay guys, I couldn't figure out how to get the HD-3 into the shop so i bought a portable 10'x20' shelter and moved it over the dozer. Yesterday i took the shuttle case inspection cover off and i have figured out what the problem is (kinda) The clutch pack is fine but where the "shift fork" slides the pack back and forth is the problem. It will go forward and perform like it should but when you pull the shuttle lever back to the reverse position the part that the shift fork moves just slides back off of the shaft it rides on. Either that or it's not a shaft meaning that the part is broken completely in two. my repiar manual should be here today they said and the mail should be coming any minute so i will be able to better tell what has gone wrong one i look at that. Does this sound familiar to anyone? |
Posted By: Travis(NE)
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 1:59am
I have seen the center of the brass shift collar wear on tractors allowing the clutch to engage enough that the tractor will move but not fully engage when pushing forward on the stick. Then when you pull back on the stick nothing will happen. The other thing could be the fork that moves the brass piece has wore out or broke the front half of the fork. You should be able to see the parts mentioned through the square adjusting cover on the right hand side.I copied Don's picture and circled the brass piece.  HTH |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 7:48pm
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I suspect that the brass collar is whats wrong and can see but some but fairly limited. I can see the shaft the the brass collar rides on and it looks pretty rough. When i push the stick forward the fork moves the brass collar forward and seems to engage the clutch as it should. When i pull the stick to the reverse position the fork moves the brass collar rearward to where it seems to almost come of the back of the shaft but when. Also when i move the stick to reverse the brass collar slides back on the shaft but it does not pull the clutch pack with it of effect it in any way. Travis does this go along with what you were saying? I have not had time to really start splitting it yet but i have it on blocks so i can start splitting the tracks when i get the time. I sprayed penetrating oil on the track adjusters because they won't budge at all. Is there any trick to this? I have loosened up the 2 flange bolts on each side that the adjusters run through but still couldn't move the adjusters.
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Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 8:04pm
| I was just thinking, what holds the brass collar to the rear of the clutch hub? |
Posted By: D-17_Dave
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 9:07pm
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The brass collar has a groove cut into it that rides the hub that engages the clutch pack. If you look at the picture, you can just make out that the brass sleeve is in fact 2 half sections bolted together. If you take your time with the help of the manual you may be able to remove the brass collar and see the total damage. If it's just the collar you may be able to replace this without splitting the tractor. You may have to remove the cross shaft that holds the fork in place. This can be done on the tractor, but I'm not sureit can be done on a crawler with the track frame out board of the transmision. Others may chime in if I'm incorrect. All this is much easier to see on the ag tractors. ------------- Yea, I can fix that..... |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 10:16pm
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The manual i bought is not much so i'm not much better off than i was without unfortunately. I see what your saying about the groove, i think i'm seeing through that hole beside one of the bolts. I might could replace the collar in the machine as long as i could get a wrench on everything but that still leaves that shaft in really bad shape. I will take another look at it before going any further on splitting it though. As for the tracks being in the way i will say that a man sure looks funny with his head stuck through the undercarriage! If anyone else has anything to add bring it on. Especially about the track adjusters being stuck. Thanks Dave
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Posted By: ac-mike
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 7:53am
| Usually it takes a good wrench or pipe wrench, a long cheater bar and heat (lots of it) and some patients. I am almost finished restoring an HD-3 using 2 to make 1. I should have the parts you need. I would say when this tractor was built they started with the clutch pack and built the tractor around it!!! |
Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 8:45am
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ac-mike, I've just not had much time to work on it because of work travel the last few weeks but i have noticed the common ingredient in every ones suggestion is liberal amounts of heat! Also i think your right about building the machine around the shuttle clutch, It's right in the middle and has stuff bolted to the top, bottom, sides and both end so i think it is fair to assume it a starting point.. You said you probably have the parts i need, I can tell from what i can see through the inspection cover that i will at least need the 1-rear clutch pack housing with the tail shaft 2- brass bushing that slides on the tail shaft, and probably any clips, bushings and bearing that are connected to that area. If the price is right i would just buy the whole shuttle clutch pack assembly from you. I see your in Kentucky so your most likely within driving distance of me. Let me know what you are asking for related parts and i'll get back to you on it. Thanks, Luke
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Posted By: fglass
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2012 at 8:46pm
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Just wondering how you made out with this. Some mechanics that I know have changed out that clutch sleeve without spliting the case (on D 15 shuttle clutch tractors) and your inspection cover is similar, so I'm guessing it's possible to do (with some newly invented words). Just curious if you wound up splitting it?
FGlass
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Posted By: hilltop615
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2012 at 9:25pm
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Fglass, I just got back from looking at some parts machines today and i think i'm going to pick them up. As for splitting the machine, i'm guessing it's easier to get at the inspection cover on the tractor but reach through the undercarriage is pretty tough. I'm sure someone really familiar with what they were feeling around on could make it happen but i don't think i could do it. Plus i can't really tell what all is broken in there so i would just be hoping i was getting everything without actually getting the clutch pack completely out. I've been working out of town for most of the last month so i've not had any time to put into it. Hopefully i can get these parts machine and some time soon.
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Posted By: nzer
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2016 at 12:07am
| i have had the same trouble i found that shuttle clutch contol had the ridge worn off common on this model part number 1003771-1 if you remove the side oil cooling plate to the shuttle clutch you will see that the fork is not pulling the clutch into reverse but will push into forward.If you search the part you will see how it has worn.sad news if it is this you have to split the tractor in half cheers duncan |