HD6E Sprocket loose
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36927
Printed Date: 26 Nov 2024 at 8:32pm
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Topic: HD6E Sprocket loose
Posted By: oljoe
Subject: HD6E Sprocket loose
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 10:42am
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I have an HD6E that I have been running for the past few months. Last week I noticed a noise coming from the right rear of the dozer. When I checked the under carriage I noticed that the right sprocket had about ½ inch side to side play. I brought it to the shop and pulled the outer bearing cover. The bearing was good so I broke the track, raised the dozer and inspected the sprocket. It appears the sprocket has become loose. The sprocket nut “keeper” was in place and still had the bolts in it. I removed the keeper and I could rotate the nut by hand. I could tell someone had been working on it before because the nut that holds the outer bearing had a ¼ inch bolt in place of the pin retainer. Now for the question. Will tightening the sprocket nut solve the problem (2200 ft. lbs.) or will the sprocket need to be replaced? The book that I have stressed that the sprocket had to be tight on the shaft or it will cause premature sprocket failure. |
Replies:
Posted By: mdtractormechanic
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 11:14am
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It may have damaged the spines beyond repair but I would try to retorque the nut. I assume it has a straight spline since you didn't mention it needed pressing. You may be able to use shim stock around the spline to help make up for wear. Check before torgueing that the threads are ok. It's worth a shoot given the price of parts.
The crawlers I've worked on in the past required the sprocket to be pressed on by a number of tons with the use of a hydraulic ram. This was done on taperd splines. ------------- Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU |
Posted By: oljoe
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 11:24am
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Thanks for the reply mdtractormechanic. The shaft is tapered. The book said the best way was to press the sprocket, but it could be put on by tightning the nut to 2200 ft. lbs. if a press wasn't available. |
Posted By: Rawleigh
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 11:49am
| 2200 foot pounds!!! How long a cheater pipe would that take!! |
Posted By: mdtractormechanic
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 12:09pm
------------- Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU |
oljoe wrote:Posted By: oljoe
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 1:32pm
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Rawleigh, The book says that if you use a cheater pipe putting 287 lbs. at the 8 foot mark of the pipe measuring from the pivot point will give 2200 ft. lbs on the nut. I may need to eat an extra large lunch. J mdtractormechanic, I think the torque multiplier would be the best bet…..if I can find one. I guess the next thing to do is make a wrench to fit that big of nut. |
Posted By: mdtractormechanic
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 2:36pm
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I'm sorry I don't live closer as I have all the tools you need for the job. Good Luck, Joe ------------- Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU |
Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 6:44pm
| Using the pipe method does work on HD6, but not on bigger tractors. When you are getting up close to required torque, hit the srocket hub on opposite sides with a 10 or 12lb hammer, torque up a bit more, then hammer again. Repeat this till you are up to torque. the sprocket will then be properly seated if the sline is not damaged from coming loose. Mac |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 7:46pm
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I have used the pipe method in the field on older Cummins engines 2 piece crankshafts and a few marine gears, does work if you set the part with a sledge. I was taught by my dad, he was a A&E mechanic and used it on prop nuts on Douglas DC 3s and 6s radial engines. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2011 at 10:23pm
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The sprockets on the HD5 are the same, the splines are tapered and a coarse spline unsless they are the old HD5 first used small spline. I have used just the nut to tighten the sprocket into axle. O used a 10' pipe 2" size over the handle of Ridgid nut style adjustable wrench. guess I was off some on torque but figured my weight on end of 10 ft being about 11' out from axel center was about right.
After doing sprockets on D6 CAT and having to rent a push/ puller the AC is easy. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 12:09am
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Midway through HD6 production, they changed spocket and shaft to fine spline. Many older tractors got the fine splines fitted later on. They say it solved the problem of breaking off the end of the shaft. I think that problem had a lot to do with incorrect torque on sprocket installation, and how the tractors were used. I broke one years back. An oldtimer on AC tractors then showed me the error of my ways; I had been winching big timber with no standing trees to hold the tractor I was chaining the blade to low stumps out front of me. The load transfered to the track frames which were flexing the shaft ends. Never did that again. welded a hitch on front of chassis for any time I couldnt sit on a tree or bank Mac |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 11:50am
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On HD5B I bought the axle broke where it is supported by outer truck frame bearing . One of the problems with outside frame dozer where any shock or push load is taken on truck frame rather than dozer frame itself.
The the HD4 I had sheared off a couple axles as the wight of the backhoe was put on rear sprockets and transfered to the small bearing surface of the final drive, no outside support for the tractor weight to transfer to truck frame. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: Mactractor
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 3:58pm
| By the time we have learned all we need to to run our tractors trouble free Coke, we will be too old to run them! |
Posted By: gemdozer
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 4:13pm
| OLJOE make sure your sprocket center is't crack some time when you thight to much the nut you stripp the tread or the sprocket center crack |
Posted By: oljoe
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2011 at 11:26am
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I got a chance to look at the dozer this weekend. I tried to tighten the nut and discovered that it had expanded to a point where the threads wouldn’t take hold on the shaft. The threads looked good on both the shaft and the nut but it wouldn’t start. I found a nut locally at Zimmerman’s Tractor that still had the seal with it and installed it on the shaft. The new nut started good and didn’t have any slop in the threads so I tightened it with a big pipe wrench until it was snug. I made a wrench out of ½ inch plate and with a long cheater pipe tightened the heck out of it. I used Mactractor’s method of hitting the sprocket with a sledge hammer and retightened it 6 or 7 times. Each time I hit it I gained a little. The nut didn’t slip on the threads so I think it may be OK. gemdozer, I checked the sprocket for cracks and there wasn’t any around the hub but I did find a crack between two of the teeth. I ground out the crack and welded it. I forgot to preheat the area so I hope it doesn’t crack somewhere else. Thanks everyone for the help and advice. Joe |
Posted By: oljoe
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 9:11am
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I ran the dozer for a couple of hours yesterday and everything looks good.
Thanks again for all of your help
Joe
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Posted By: mdtractormechanic
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2011 at 2:45pm
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Good to hear it all worked out. ------------- Joe's 1939 Model WC, 1940 Model RC, 1944 & 1950 Model C's, B-125 PU |