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AGCO Orange Death nail

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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3659
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Topic: AGCO Orange Death nail

Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Subject: AGCO Orange Death nail
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 7:13am

http://thegatheringoftheorange.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=7 - http://thegatheringoftheorange.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2010-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=7

From letter wars on there:

Dear AGCO Dealer:
As you may know, Martin Richenhagen, CEO, was recently quoted saying that “we are pretty much on schedule with the reduction of our many brands in North America and we will bring it down to two only and they are Massey Ferguson and Challenger. All the rest will be integrated into those two brands”. To some, this statement was perceived as a logical extension of AGCO’s stated strategy to consolidate the number of global brands to Massey Ferguson, Challenger, Valtra and Fendt. To others, this message fueled concerns about the future of certain North American brands and products.
As a result, I wanted to use this letter and future regional dealer meetings to address your questions and concerns regarding the brand transition.

Achieving the right balance for AGCO North America and our dealers has been challenging. By focusing resources on fewer brands, AGCO can improve the impact of its marketing and engineering, and also improve its global competitiveness, which ultimately directly impacts you and me. At the same time, brands like Sunflower, Hesston, Gleaner, AG Chem, Fendt and others have long established customer loyalties and represent a substantial amount of sales volume to AGCO North America and its dealers.

It has been in our strategic plans to increase market share in North America. To accomplish our goal, we believe it is important that we approach our customers with strong dealers representing strong full line brands. We believe this will require us to realign some of our traditional brands through cobranding, such as what we have done with Hesston by Massey Ferguson. It will also require reducing the number of brands we offer in North America by phasing out certain brands. Accordingly, AGCO Corp. has been reviewing the AGCO® Brand name. Although the timeline is still being determined, ultimately our strategy is to have two full line brands in North America: Massey Ferguson and Challenger. At some point in the future and over a period of time, we will be phasing out the AGCO® brand name and line of products and promoting the Massey Ferguson and Challenger names for the comparable products.
While the precise timeline for this transition is still undetermined, you may rest assured that products under the AGCO® brand name will continue to be built and supported in accordance with the current practice until the withdrawal is complete. I can tell you that as you develop your business plans, we foresee AGCO® branded products being manufactured and offered in the marketplace throughout 2010 with our commitment for aftermarket support continuing thereafter. As we approach a time for phase out, you and your customers will be a part of a comprehensive customer retention program.
AGCO will cooperate with all current AGCO® dealers seeking a workable solution on an individual basis. Options may include arrangements to continue as a dealer for comparable Massey Ferguson products, as well as benefit from the full product line offering provided by Massey Ferguson.

Additionally and very importantly, dealers need not be concerned about the future of the transverse Gleaner product line. Many performance characteristics of this combine cannot be matched. Silver Gleaner combines are a big part of our current business model and are expected to continue to play a role in our future combine harvester business.

I hope this helps clear the air. I realize this is a difficult subject for all of us, as many of your dealerships have a history with the orange line of tractors. However, the market has changed and AGCO is also required to change. As farms continue to consolidate, customers expect more and more from their dealer and their manufacturer. Our long term success will depend on our shared ability to create brands strong enough to win over a very demanding customer base in a highly competitive environment.

Dale, Jim (IA), any other dealer guys confirm this letter? In my world this doesn't make any sense. It sounds like to me they want to get rid of dealers as much as a color. Around here they spent a million dollars to have a CAT company bring in a dealer. Their screwing the dealer I go to big time. Anyway, here it is. They just shot the value of any orange AGCO in the foot too.

Replies:

Posted By: Bob D. (La)
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 7:26am

Guess AGCO just doesn't share our enthusiasm for the Orange brand. When Allis ceased operation, that was the death knoll, AGCO is now trying to bury it. God Bless.

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When you find yourself in a hole,PUT DOWN THE SHOVEL!!!

Posted By: Dale-OH
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 7:38am

Byron I have never seen this letter before, and I would like to know who signed it. As far as the value of the orange tractor only the customers can kill that. I know this because I am still selling used White tractors at comparable prices to that of comparable AGCO tractors. As long as there is a customer for the used AGCO equipment it will hold its value. As far as getting rid of dealers, most of the dealers that they have gotten rid of needed to go. For example in our area there used to be farmers who were Sunflower dealers and there was an old dealer that hadnt ordered any new equipment in 5 years but still had a dealership. Neither one of these circumstances was good for the loyal AGCO dealer or the company. I also know that in this time there was a few good AGCO dealers that gave up the contract. I have not heard in 6 months or so but the last I had heard AGCO has closed less than 10 dealers, all of them for non payment or for not following the rules in the contract.

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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 8:03am

Dale,
I have about four AGCO dealers in 70 miles. One sells AGCO tractors but is doing MF for smaller. One does AGCO but is doing Kubota for whatever range Kubota offers. One hardly sells any orange. One is almost all orange and used to be an Oliver dealer. All but the one who hardly sells any are family owned. This Spring AGCO forked over a million to Ziegler CAT to put a Challenger dealer right smack dab in the middle of them at an old car dealership. Around here, to me, it feels like they don't want the family owned dealers they want one big CAT dealer.

Either way, I've gotta think about my options. I'm glad your white's still sell but in my opinion if you don't make them still people won't buy them unless their collectors. I'm not at a point in my life to be a collector. Would a Massey guy buy an orange Massey?
Only if he got a great deal at my expense.

Byron
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Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 8:20am

CHALLENGER???!! WTF!!?? In the last ten years, I don't think I have seen more than five Challenger tractors. All were at farm shows. To me Massey Ferguson means mickey-mouse hydraulic systems, fifty dollar woodruff keys and shoddy dealer service. They can keep 'em both.

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Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 8:32am

BrettPhillips. The Massey and Agco tractors are the same except for paint.

I would still not want to see the orange go though.

Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 9:14am

Yes, we got the letter today. Orange tractors will be built through 2010 and through 2011 per customers orders. What could be an even bigger mistake is they are taking out Fendt too!

Heres the good news. They say in the letter that "AGCO is committed ot the Silver Gleaner transvers combine. Dont let anyone tell you its not." That is an exact quote from AGCO. They say they have done alot of updates in the last few years and also say "The best is yet to come".

I'm not gonna say anymore, there will be enough complaining. All I can say is dont go out and buy green and if I ever meet Richenhagen in person he is gonna be called alot of names by me, a fair amount of them will be four letter words.

Jim

Posted By: BrettPhillips
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 9:17am

Spud, You're right about them being the same. I should have been clearer in stating my prejudices. The mickey-mouse hydraulic comment is rooted in the older Massey products where hydraulic pumps were stashed haphazardly in the bowels of the tractor, and the woodruff key and dealer comments still apply, although my Agco dealer just took on MF, so things may be improving for MF in this area. Having read the above letter, I believe that he must have been shown the writing on the wall and "gently" forced into a MF contract. BTW, this is the same VA dealer that Byron referrred to in another thread. Darned good folks, and I don't like to see them being pushed around.

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Posted By: Hurst
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 10:49am

As long as they don't consolidate it down to only the Challenger tractors. As I've said before, Cat dealers are not very farmer friendly... I refuse to use them for anything. I'm kind of surprised they're getting rid of Fendt. That seemed to be a brand that was picking up some speed in the US. I think what AGCO needs to do to keep from losing customers is to make sure they explain the Massy tractors are identical to the AGCO tractors, just different colors. Not sure if a similar statement can be said about the Fendt tractors, but if they do that, I feel those who had loyalty to Allis and AGCO will have a slightly better reason to stay within the AGCO company for future purchases.

Hurst

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-------------
1979 Allis Chalmers 7000
5800 Hours

Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 11:34am

Yes the Massey 2000 series had a bad reputation. I am not sure about the 3000 series if they were good or not. I know they build good gear now but a bad owner experience in the past is very difficult to overcome.

Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 11:38am

I know a lot of European farmers in Canada love their Fendts. They would not like to see it go. What about Valtra?

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Posted By: PeteMN
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 11:49am

I find it amazing that a company would be in such a hurry to eliminate good brand names in favor of poor brand names. If they can't market equipment differently in the US and other countries then they should fire their marketing staff. I just wonder what kind of stuff those folks are smoking in their boardroom. Looks like its all down hill from here.

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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 1:25pm

I bought AGCO equipment because I assumed they were the Allis Gleaner company and committed to orange tractors. I know the new AGCO's are in almost all cases identical to the Massey version. But I WILL NOT buy a Massey painted red. I bought a Sunflower grain drill because they were with AGCO that was Allis. I guess I'm nuts. But they've lost me. I don't know where I'm going yet but not there. It was the orange paint but it was more than that as it WAS the Allis Gleaner company. Now it belongs to the shareholders.

Brett,
That dealer, (in VA), was the coolest dealer ever. His name escapes me now but he was the most knowledgeable salesmen/owner I've met and a nice guy. He thought AGCO should make different colors available before I even mentioned that I thought the same thing. He of course loves Olivers and said he guaranteed he could sell more tractors if they were Oliver green. He sold a bunch of AGCO GT's and when they stopped offering he took on Deutz as their the same tractor. I think he bought out a closing MF dealer for the parts but I didn't think he was going to sell them. When I was there he got a shipment of MF brochures that he DID NOT order and he wasn't happy about it. He's an Oliver guy so I don't know if this steams him but I know other things at AGCO do.

I think most people on here collect tractors and most probably don't even own an orange AGCO on here. So they don't care and that's fine. But you look at all the shoe horning AGCO is doing and you don't think they will shoe horn the old Allis's via parts price increases or elimination thinking they can shoe horn you in to buy a new Massey? It's a coming.

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Posted By: mfendtguy
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 2:50pm

Fendt is NOT going away.

I have had the chance to see the dealer letter and this is very explicity addressed. Fendt, although is not a huge player in NA, serves a very important niche for AGCO.

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Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 4:02pm

I did read that incorrectly, they are not quitting Fendt in the American market. But it looks like they are not going to expand it either. They kindof said the same thing about the AGCO line five years ago!

Jim

Posted By: John_SWPA
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 4:07pm

It's all incredibly sad. I understand that the Agco brand has looked like a bit of a clustermuck for years. Ford bought out New Holland equipment in the 1980's, Ford sold it's involvement in teh 1990's to Fiat and with that, wanted there name removed by the year 2000. Now, we have a bunch of blue tractors with the New Holland name. None of which bears any resemblance to the Ford product offered in the past. Some of their machines are junk, some are exceptional, but there is no continuity aross the brand.

The same thing has plagued Agco since the demise of the American factory. Agco took on a lot of brands, not necessarily because the brands were failing, but because they were profitable in either name, or product. What they did with the brand after obtaining them, is their choice. They bought the companies lock, stock, and barrel. They can be a big bunch of idiots. They could be pivotal to the success of the brand, but the point is, they own them. If they don't learn, they loose customers. If they do learn, we fuel the fire for them to aquire more brands and competition.

Like I said, it's all sad to see it end, but it's big business.

Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 6:19pm

Well Well Well. That sure is interesting to see. Fendt is huge for AGCO in Germany and other parts of Europe I hear, so I highly doubt that is going away. As for the AGCO line of tractors, I have no experience with them. I do not live on a farm, but I can tell you that on our properties we have the need for a small compact. Sadly, finding a Compact tractor made by any AGCO brand name around here is like shooting at a fly in the dark. Do any of the AGCO brands even make compacts?

If AGCO were to buck down and get smart, they would create a good line of compact tractors that the people dedicated to the AGCO heritage companies such as Allis, Oliver, White, Massy Harris, and others, would buy in an effort to modernize their properties. It would be great if a color schemes were an option on some of the AGCO tractors. As for me caring about AGCO, they have ruined a good name, and their CEO lost my support way before this whole thing started. Glad I did not decide to buy any AGCO stock.

As for the Challenger tractors: WHY would you DUPLICATE something you ALREADY HAVE simply by putting a new name and color on it. You can't change peoples loyalty to a brand, color, or heritage. That is very evident on this here forum. In the past years, AGCO has made some terrible mistakes. Coming from the family who owns a business, duplicating services and calling them 2 different things is the worst idea for your company you can possibly do. But to come out with a new brand that is a duplicate, and then kill the one has been around for years, is just plain CRAZY and the WORST business decision I can ever see anyone make.

When everyone here buys 51% of AGCO stock, I would like to run to be the new AGCO CEO. I'm young and innovative, but loyal to the small family farm and heritage brand names. Who wants to be my campaign manager?

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Posted By: TobeMo
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 6:25pm

We got our letter yesterday. While I hate to see them go it is my opinion they quit building true orange tractors in 84.

Posted By: naylorbros
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 7:11pm

I bought a new small square baler this year. I would have bought it with only the Hesston name on it but now you have to buy "Hesston By Massy". I will not by anything that is Massy red. I went out to the Cat dealer and bought a yellow one. My experence with my Cat dealer has been much different than many of your. Wheeler Machinery has always been good to work with.

Thanks

Ken

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Posted By: Oldoug
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 7:59pm

Each time I read this letter I get a little more upset. AGCO sucks, more importantly Martin Richehagen sucks. I think at the time AGCO was founded they were on the right track, bring back some of the A-C hertiage to get people back in the door and over the past few years they have been pushing that away and trying to force feed you Massey and now Challenger stuff. They talk about phasing out lines so they can focus on improving marketing, AGCO doesn't understand how to market anything. Every time I order products for our showroom floor something new comes without a AGCO logo, the hand soap, battery cleaner, filters, alot of parts boxes come without AGCO logo's on them, I mean they don't even promote their own name. Just plain stupid, instead of looking at it as an expense to put the AGCO name on a jug of hand soap, they should look at it as free advertising. AGCO used to stand for the ALLIS-GLEANER Company, they say it doesn't anymore. I know AGCO isn't A-C, but when I started at our dealership I used to come to work and feel like I had a connection to A-C and I felt good when I would look at that AGCO logo, now it is Massey red and it's Your Agriculture Company, what a joke, and the way the letter sounds I won't even be looking at the AGCO logo at all, maybe I'll be looking at a yellow Challenger logo we already have been forced into that fricken Massey logo on our sign. I'm glad that I was born early enough to be able to walk into a real A-C dealership, see the A-C logo on everything, a lot full of orange equipment and Gleaner combines and you were expected to know and carry parts for only one brand. This letter today is gonna kill the North American market, I can even stomach the Massey line if I'm forced to, but, to drop the AGCO line in favor of this Challenger stuff is down right stupid. All I know is the John Deere and Case IH people have to be laughing their asses off right now reading this. AGCO has the equipment in my opinion right now to compete with John Deere, Case IH, or any other brand out there and they are just gonna "phase it out".

Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 8:21pm

I'd just say screw then all and go buy a Kubota tractor. The quality is there and it's the right color anyway.

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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 9:04pm

Ok for my two cents...

I can see the rational for reducing the number of brands. But to dump the NAMESAKE brand AGCO has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Its like hearing Ford say they need to reduce the number of brands so they are dropping the Ford brand and calling everything a Mercury. WTF!!! To even make it more crazy doesnt the AGCO brand have a better following in the states than Massey or Challenger? Dont they sell more AGCO tractors than Massey or Challenger? Makes no sense what so ever.

If I was King I would divide the tractors into three sizes. Small, Medium, Large. Massey brand for the small, Allis-Chalmers brand for the medium, and AGCO for the large. Dump Challenger. Gives each brand a unique niche with no phoney baloney "re-badging" and the extra expense that comes with it, and takes advantage of brand loyalty to a degree. Have you cake and eat it too. Each dealer carries all three brands, so each dealer can serve all markets.....Am I crazy or is AGCO management a prime example of the "Peter Principle"?

Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 9:26pm

I've felt sick about this so I gotta let it go. I've tried to make sense of AGCO for some time and they don't. They have a double standard. Their orange outsell yellow and red in big tractors in North America huge. They have an AGCO-Allis brand just for Argentena. They keep Fendt, (albeit a great tractor), when it's technology is being put into other of it's brands. So, the unique stuff left in it is pretty much the engine which I believe is Deutz. They offer Valtra with many different color options. All these things would say to me that if you do it for them why not for AGCO tractors? Doesn't make sense. What does make sense is the CEO wanting to make the company look bigger to Europeans and CAT has prestige so they want that. It does make sense that they must want to get rid of more dealers thinking that fewer dealers the money spent on tractors won't be split between them so they can advertise. Deere has that philosophy and it's backfiring big time here. Sloan implement has moved in for Deere and there were a bunch of Deere tractors being traded in to other dealers. Anyway, it makes sense, in a stupid sick way, but it's hypocritical. Anyway, I should have listened to others when they said AC died and not bought AGCO equipment. I gotta settle down and think about it but I know I won't be going back to AGCO. I just gotta figure out where to go from here. Believe it or not it puts a big crimp in my AC tractor/equipment plans too. I have a gut feeling they'll push out the old parts like they pushed out the new. If they follow their pattern they'll also dump Fendt and Gleaner but probably not for a couple of years.

Posted By: 620Doc
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 9:30pm

For what it's worth, on Wall Street AGCO's stock rose 0.21% today.

Posted By: Oldoug
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 9:42pm

I think you're right Byron Gleaner is on the chopping block next, why keep anything around with ties to A-C just bury it all. I also think that the older parts will be gone soon also probably pushed off to Obsolete parts depo's around the country. AGCO's stock might have been up today but I'm not sure this letter has hit the stock market or all of the public yet.

Posted By: EdW
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2009 at 10:32pm

Sounds like a sad day for sure! It even makes me remember the 1980's. That was a very painfiul time for my family. We closed our AC dealership in 1983 and I had to sell out the farm in 1987. This is starting to sound like a rerun! All I can say to all the dealers that are effected by this is that ther REALLY is life after Allis Chalmers. You don't have to give up your love for the orange, just keep in touch on this site and trust in the Lord and good things WILL come your way!

Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 12:11am

I have to agree with you all. It is so strange that AGCO is going the direction they are. I wonder if having leadership from Europe, running a US based company has something to do with it. Do you suppose Mr. Radcliff was bought out (or sold out) after his next in line was killed in a plane crash. I don't know who is on the board but I doubt if they understand agriculture.

This whole thing with Cat also has me wondering exactly what is going on. Cat came out with the rubber tracked tractor which was/is a good machine but they didn't do a good job marketing it. Going in with AGCO gave them more potential dealers and, I think, cheaper labor to build them. I suspect JCB regrets not buying Perkins when they had the chance. I'm sure it hurts to pay Cat for engines for the machines the new JCB engine doesn't fit. JCB doesn't seem interested in building smaller tractors. Even with market share shrinking and a few brands dropping off, there are probably still too many brands on the world market. I still think AGCO is making a mistake dropping the Orange line, along with Hesston but things could change with time. We only have one AGCO dealer in the entire state of Colorado and he only took on the line when he lost Case after they got bought out by Fiat. I expect to hear any day that they will be closing their doors. Sorry for the ramble's.

Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 2:54am

What does Kubota have to do with anything? It isn't about just the orange paint, but the whole Allis Chalmers legacy. They are treating dealers that stood strong for the AGCO Allis brand when things weren't very rosey, just like dirt. I am convinced the Massey line won't sell here in central Iowa. You wanna know why? No dealers. DUH. I want absolutely nothing to do with Massey.

How do they expect to sell a short line combine? Who would shell out 300 to 350 K for a machine that might not have any dealer support? When you pull the AGCO option from the dealers, you can be pretty sure they won't be as excited about selling/supporting a Gleaner. Richenhagen might like Massey, but around here Massey is pretty much just a punchline. Sure wish John Shumejda was still around.

Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 5:47am

Redline,
I agree, it is about the AC legacy . That's why I bought AGCO equipment. Like I've said I always looked at it as the Allis Gleaner Company. But now I agree with others that it died. That's the saddest part to me. Looking back, unlike others, I think it still lived on up until the last few years through it's employees, dealers, orange paint and heritage parts. Now the employees are gone, don't care or don't have a voice. The Dealers are getting shoved out and the orange paint is gone. They still have parts but for how long?

Why Kubota? Right now they seem to be the best option out there.

Believe it or not John Deere fits my profile in that I pay more to buy American made products. I probably will look at them to see which tractors are actually made in the US and if they just assemble some foreign parts or if it's actually made here. If I like what I see maybe I'll go there though that is hard for me to imagine stomaching right now.

CNH products are inconsistent. They have a nice bi-directional tractor, (from Versatile), I've always liked and I like their new 8N. I don't care for blue and the Czech made red tractors seem like junk to me. You can get their bi-directional tractor yellow and that would match up well with Landoll and Vermeer.

I like Mahindra but doubt I'd go there. Their a heavy built tractor with value and I've had a soft heart for India since I've had some friends from there.

McCormick is nice but I just found out their owned by the Italians now and their tractors are made there too so I gotta base their tractor on merit and I don't think it'll stand up to Kubota or Deutz.

Deutz/SAME/SLH whatever is actually pretty interesting to me. They have opened up two small dealers close to me in the last couple of years. They have been around a long time and haven't had the latest transmissions but their engines have been hard to beat. They offer some models that run on SVO which really appeals to me. And, I bet shortly you'll be able to get an orange one in the US as I would think the AGCO contract will go out and the orange and green ones are made in the same factory.

Versatile is too big for me and I think their owned by the Russians now or something like that.

JCB is very appealing to me. I think their tractors and skid steers are high quality, unique and have great features. With AGCO bowing to investors and dumping farmers I LOVE the fact that JCB is still family owned. Their smallest tractor is like 130 PTO which I could make work.

So back to why Kubota? In most cases their cheaper than AGCO, JD and Case. They have an excellent reputation for quality. They make their own engines, transmission, etc. which most companies don't. Their fuel efficient. I have more Kubota dealers around me than anybody else and all but one is family owned. And, as a bonus, their orange.

I will tell you that I won't buy the AC 7000 now and I won't ever sell my grandpas WC but doubt that I'll buy another AC. Dealer support is dwindling and I truly believe, as I've said, I think AGCO will shove out the parts like they've shoved out the orange. They may just do it by raising prices but probably will just make more and more unavailable. I emailed AGCO back in June about the rumors that parts were going away and orange paint was going away. Based on an email I got from AGCO's Todd Stucke saying parts will and orange paint will be there as long as people buy them I bought an ST compact with loader, mower and a tiller. So he lied about the orange how can I trust them about keeping parts?

Thanks for the therapy guys. I doubt many read my long rant but it's good to vent right now.

Byron

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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 6:22am

When they drop the parts, aftermarket suppliers will pick them up ; alot cheaper too !!! Agco,s screwing up big time to gain North America market share ; In the early 90,s AGCO ALLIS was going to promote the Heritage tractor line, it was in the Landhandler and big news , then came MF and down the tubes, ; I had a bad feeling when the Landhandler magizine was changed to Advantage or whatever; then ALLIS got dropped on the name, the new Agco logo with MF red ; now this ; screw em all, just rebuild the old AC,S ; Im gonna have a real hard time even buying parts from them jokers for rebuilding though ; cant worry bout things out of your control, but you can sure let your voice be heard , raise some hell to the new MASSEY \ CHALLENGER company ; cause it,ll prolly be named that before to long ; I would like to see some numbers on how the new AC lawnmower sold but Im afraid it maybe dissappoiting cause its just a sticker on a machine ; not the true AC manufactured machine

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Posted By: Hudsonator
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 7:29am

I became a Massey Fan, but then I'm a small-mid size tractor user. We went to Louisville to the machinery show this past February - and they lost me right there on the spot with the Sisu engine. Massey had the best package of time tested ruggedness and simplicity out there for the money in that size tractor, they've gone and screwed up hopelessly.

I hate to say it, but AGCO's days as a US concern are numbered unless they wise up.

I think I've said this before, but I had a long conversation with the Massey folks at Louisville and really gave them a hard time over the loss of the Perkins engines. They had a good explanation, the tractors are manufactured in India and India won't allow engines built out of their country to be used in tractors meant for sale in India. So, to comply and get the smaller tractors built in India for sale in the country- the Sisu had to the be engine.

My only reply was, "America should have some laws like that". The conversation ended right there.

Mark

-------------
There isn't much a WC can't do.

WD's just do it better.

Posted By: JERRY-KS
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 8:00am

Yes, the letter came to us as an e-mail. Sounds like more doom & gloom. The only good that seems like may come from it is they say they are committed to the transverse flow rotary Gleaner. I guess time will tell. JERRY-KS Receptology dehydroisoandrosterone rattan exactitude autolysis continuation dapsone wpb, algomioclonism dipped oligoarthritis collegative waistline misy groundsel.
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Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 9:42am

Hello Byron. You say you want to buy American made but Kubota is made in Japan.

I use a lot of Kubota engines in generators and think they make a good engine but the tractors are very lightly built. Just not enough iron in my opinion.

The deutz/SLH could be alright for utility and livestock work. I don't think they would make a good field work tractor though.

My first pick for non Agco would still be McCormick. I do like Massey though myself. My first tractor ride on my dad's lap was on a MH33.

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Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 10:05am

They use Sisu in Agco because they own Sisu. Massey sold Perkins to Cat before Agco bought Massey. If they could have hung onto them a little longer, all Agco gear would be running Perkins today. THe sisu is a good engine.

Deutz no longer offers the air cooled diesel in their tractors which is a shame. It is a good engine.

Posted By: mfendtguy
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 10:38am

Hudsonator wrote:

My only reply was, "America should have some laws like that". The conversation ended right there.

I believe the tractors you are referring to (the MF 2600 Series) use a Simpson engine - not a SISU engine - if you would do your research you would know that Simpson engines are and have been a Perkins licensee for over 40 years. Yes they are built in India, but if you would strip the decals off, you would find you are looking at a Perkins engine.

By the way, if the 2600's had the SISU engine that would be the best utility on the market. It's tough to beat the SISU motor, probably one of the best available worldwide.

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Posted By: Ron(WA)
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 11:15am

As a purchaser, it would make no sense to me to buy a brand that I knew was going away. This announcement will shut the doors on the Agco brand sooner than they plan. Nothing personal, just good business. To fall in love with a brand is personal, and somewhat foolish. To announce that they are going to shut down the brand is very honest but unwise, as it will kill their sales of that brand much sooner than they want, plus generate a certain amount of animosity, pronounced in many of the above posts, that will hurt their future sales.

Posted By: ih330
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 7:12pm

JimIA wrote:

Yes, we got the letter today. Orange tractors will be built through 2010 and through 2011 per customers orders. What could be an even bigger mistake is they are taking out Fendt too!

Jim

Posted By: ih330
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 7:26pm

Where did you get that idea that Fendt is going away in N. Am.?

The only place Fendt in North America is mentioned in the letter to dealers (the letter partially posted at the beginning of this thread -- the posting does not include this part of the letter) is in this sentence: "

At the same time, brands like Sunflower, Hesston, Gleaner, AG Chem, Fendt and others have

long established customer loyalties and represent a substantial amount of sales volume to AGCO

North America and its dealers."

Posted By: MI8050
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 7:30pm

It sucks that they are dropping orange, they just don't gget it. Massey sucks and Challenger is a made up brand, in a company that already had too many.

Asf ar as Kubota, MI. has tons of dealers, most family owned and their tractors are very well built. I got an M9000 this summer and it is my favorite already, never thoguht i'd say it but I love that Jap tractor. Deere could take a hydraulics lesson from them.

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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2009 at 9:19pm

Spud,
All things being equal I give bonus points. Bonus for American made. Bonus for American owned. Bonus for company family owned, (i.e. not Wall Street). Bonus for dealer support. Bonus for dealer family owned. I gave a ton of bonus points for AC stuff but that's gone.

Byron

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Posted By: wdallis
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 8:53am

The big question is, 'What about parts??' We need someone to answer this! I farm with all orange, but if I can't get any more parts, then I will have to change!

Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 9:03am

WD - I emailed AGCO on it in June. I asked them if parts were going to continue to be made and if orange tractors were going to continue to be made. They said yes to both and now orange tractors are gone. Do you think I believe their going to keep parts too? Their montra now is shoe horn people and dealers either out the door or into Massey. Don't you think they'll try to shoe horn old equipment people into new tractors? Awhile back someone brought up that a part wasn't available any more and that AGCO wouldn't release it to have others sell/make it. I don't know how they could do that but I think if they can do that you'll see that more and more with parts. All of our orange AGCO and AC tractors took a hit in value this week IMO.
Byron

Posted By: JimIA
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 9:54am

As long as there are dealers and parts sales there will be parts for the orange tractors. I had a guy come in to work on Friday and order a bunch of parts for an Oliver 66. Thats a tractor that is fifty years old and has been through three corporations now. So like I said as long as there are dealers there will be parts.

Jim

Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 10:43am

I have been slowly loosing faith AGCO for a long time. While it surprises me they can be this naive in their thinking, dropping the orange doesn't. They haven't been interested in Allis for a long time. Big blow was when the guys were killed on the plane. All along they said they couldn't name a tractor Allis-Chalmers because of naming rights, then they drop Allis from the name. Then Briggs can come out with a lawn tractor with Allis-Chalmers and the logo on it, but AGCO can't use the name? Yeah right. Shows me they never were interested in using the name.
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Instr flanger mortgageable. Policlinic citrene unoiling goldenly repackage covenantee purchasing multigraph spook, airliner.

Posted By: Hudsonator
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 12:03pm

mfendtguy wrote:

By the way, if the 2600's had the SISU engine that would be the best utility on the market. It's tough to beat the SISU motor, probably one of the best available worldwide.

Sisu or Simpson, the point was that the world takes isolationist actions to protect their own mfg base. We don't seem to be that smart here in the Us, now are we? The details weren't nearly as important as the overall message.

Mark

Instr flanger mortgageable. Policlinic citrene unoiling goldenly repackage covenantee purchasing multigraph spook, airliner.

-------------
There isn't much a WC can't do.

WD's just do it better.

Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 12:37pm

Jordan(OH) wrote:

All along they said they couldn't name a tractor Allis-Chalmers because of naming rights, then they drop Allis from the name. Then Briggs can come out with a lawn tractor with Allis-Chalmers and the logo on it, but AGCO can't use the name? Yeah right. Shows me they never were interested in using the name.

Yep that thought ran across my mind too when I heard about the lawn tractors.

Maybe it will take the North American sales to tank from this bonehead move to make them see the light on the value of the Allis brand. I wonder how well the lawn tractor has sold overall. I have heard nothing but positive news here from some dealers, but that doesnt give me the complete picture..

Posted By: ACD19farmboy
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 2:01pm

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO if i ever meet Martin Richenhagen i nock his lights out!!!HEY everybody on this sight if we were to come together right now and ask if he will keep the AGCO name???????!!!!!if they do get rid of AGCO brand name i will not start my SOOOO wanted AGCO dealership!!!long live orange power!

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Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 5:13pm

It is important to know one fact about this entire travesty, one man is responsible for it all. The stubborn prick from Germany! Nearly all of the company personnel knows what a mistake this is. The brand that is a distant 3rd in NA sales - MF, The brand the was fabricated a few short years ago and their CAT distribution which now appears to be crumbling - Challenger, and with all of these facts, this knot kills the golden (Orange) goose. I think the best thing to happen is for bankruptcy! Maybe this will wake up the "good old boy" club which is the board of directors.

Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 6:20pm

Look at this bozo's compensation:

http://people.forbes.com/profile/martin-richenhagen/2153 - http://people.forbes.com/profile/martin-richenhagen/2153

I didnt realize stupidity had such high market value....

Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 6:29pm

If anyone want to send a love letter to AGCO:

Public Relations

Rebecca Fabian

Stockheim Media
501 Fifth Avenue, Suite 2108
New York, NY 10017
USA

E-Mail: mailto:rf@stockheim-media.com - rf@stockheim-media.com

Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 9:07pm

It's encouraging to see I'm not the only one that thinks this is nuts. I don't have much hope for AGCO but maybe one day they'll either loose or give up the rights to Allis, Oliver, Moline, White and Cockshutt. My guess though is that they'll keep them until they die just so no one else can prove that they blew it.

"As long as there are dealers and parts sales there will be parts for the orange tractors." Jim, with all due respect, I don't think so. Many people said the same thing about orange tractors and it doesn't fit AGCOs character to keep heritage things that make money. It is in there character to drop those things and subtly force you to either get out or get into the shoe they want you to wear. I could be and hope that that I'm wrong but I'm not banking on it.
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Posted By: Nate, Chicago
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 9:41am

I bet the Rumley people were this upset too. And the United Tractor people. Didn't Allis Chalmers buy the Buda Engine Company too? Wasn't there a time when AC was the huge corporation gobbling up smaller companies and killing brand names?

That being said, My folks own 2 DT 240's, a smaller agco allis, and they're great tractors. I was proud that they were built by the Allis Gleaner Co. BUT there's nothing like farming with my brother who runs an 8070 and R62. And hearing the UC growl on the auger makes me smile.

I'm really going to miss orange paint.

Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 10:00am

Big difference, AGCO is killing its own. It would be like AC buying Rumley and keeping the Rumley brand and killing the Allis Chalmers name. Besides, the AGCO orange tractor has been the best selling AGCO tractor in NA. Most competent people would not kill their most popular brand. Thats why this is about a German knothead with an agenda!

Posted By: Austin(WI)
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 2:09pm

One way to get AGCO's attention is to use the media. I know that may seem a little far fetched or stupid...but you get the word out that people are not happy....they will listen. Write AGCO a letter/email. WE are what keeps them going..they need US! Let them know that.

-------------
"Better By Design"

Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 10:54am

A question that needs to be asked. AGCO is now telling their dealers that Gleaner is not going away, but the company is going to 2 brands in NA market. Which is it, is Gleaner not going away or are they going to 2 brands? We have a major corporate oxymoron going here. What are they trying to do now, a little egg on their face or the typical incompetence in Duluth? They are also now telling dealers that AGCO orange tractors and Gleaner combines don't go together. They must have some good hooch they are smoking in Richenhagens office!

Posted By: AgcoDead
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 11:14am

AGCO lost my faith earlier in the year. I proudly purchased a White 6144 in the late 90's. Soon the BRAND was no longer important and was phased out. Then the troubles started. This tractor was nothing but a nightmare to get parts for. Over the past two years it was in the shop for 18 months. They could never find the matching part number. It took them months to find a simple driveline coupler to match. They would have to send the broken part off and have special built. It was almost comical as if this machine was a prototype built from non production parts. The dealer was super frustrated and I was irrate. lots of $$$ later I finally made the decsion to get rid of it for a JD. I have never owned a Deere but felt no other choice. We will see how it turns out but I have decided that AGCO, a company I want to succeed, will have to prosper without my particiaption. I hope the WHITE issue I had doesn't repeat for all of you AGCO guys. Good Luck.