Anyone a engine mechanic for WD45?
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Topic: Anyone a engine mechanic for WD45?
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Subject: Anyone a engine mechanic for WD45?
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:20am
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I have a WD45 with loader, I was out moving some dirt around, I parked the tractor for 10 minutes, I went to restart the tractor and it would not start? It fires and the second I let off the starter it quits? here are the things I have done. Rebuilt and Cleaned Carburetor. Mag tested good for spark. Has good clean gas. I put oil down the cylinders. Checked valves and all are opening and closing as they should. put in a set of new spark plugs. it is getting plenty of gas to the plugs. The tractor has never burned any oil, so I wouldn't think it would be the rings, when I pull out a spark plug it is wet with gas, so I should be getting fuel? the tractor has always ran great with no troubles until now. If any one has any ideas please let me know, |
Replies:
Posted By: David Gibson (OH)
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:26am
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Check to see if you have coolant in the oil. It might be a cracked block or blown head gasket. ------------- David Gibson http://www.darkecountysteam.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.darkecountysteam.com 1956 WD45 |
Posted By: Goose
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:27am
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First thing I'd check is if it had spark. I'd take out a spark plug, or all of them, attach them to the spark plug wires with the bases resting on a grounded part, and use the starter to whirl the engine over. You should see good spark at each of the spark plugs. If not, you know that the problem exists in the ignition system. That would be the first place to look.
If you have good spark, then you have to examine to see if you have compression, proper amount of gas (carburation) and unblocked exhaust.
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Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:28am
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My first guess would be to check for a ground somewhere. Try the On/Off switch first. Wires on coil, inside mag, wires running to and from. Next, have you checked the points for spark and wear? Replace the condenser? Sounds like everything else is covered, gotta be an electrical problem... ------------- "Allis-Express" 19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
Posted By: Goose
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:28am
| In re-reading your post, do you think the engine is flooded (too much gas)? |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:43am
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Does it backfire when you are trying to start it? If so is the mag cap cracked or showing carbon tracks? Is the fuel flow sufficient to the carb? Your sure there is no water in the gas? Or accidentally poured in a can of kerosene? BTDT. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Gordy
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 11:44am
| If this tractor fires when the starter is cranking and if it has a 12 volt battery it could be a bad resistor that cuts the ignition voltage to 6 volt when running |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 12:05pm
IH used that system but A WD doesn't unless the mag is converted to external coil and battery ignition and has the key switch and wiring that bypasses the resistor when starting. I don't know of any Allis that used that system. Just so you know. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Gordy wrote:Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 12:59pm
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There is spark on every plug, gas is clean and I put a additive in it to make sure there was no water. The mag has been converted over to an external coil but don't think that has anything to do with it because it is giving of a really big blue spark on every plug. It does sometime backfire out the carburetor. There is no fluid in the oil, so it shouldn't be the heads or block. Every one I talk to around here have no clue what happened? I have had several people look at it and no one can figure it out? Thanks for everyone's help |
Posted By: wkpoor
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 1:52pm
| I agree it could be flooded. Maybe needle seat isn't tight or float drops. Either way easy thing to check for. Shut off gas supply and drain carb bowl. Then crack engine for a minute to see if it clears and tried to light off. If so open supply and on you go. |
Posted By: Rfdeere
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 1:53pm
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We'll you got fuel and fire. If you were using it and it was running fine it was surely in time. Has compression. The only thing left is air. Have you taken the hose off the carb from the air cleaner and tryed it ? ------------- Randy Freshour,Member Indiana AC Partners, http://www.rumelyallis.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.rumelyallis.com |
Posted By: Goose
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 1:54pm
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I'd say that ignition is not the problem. You might want to check the timing, though.
If it is backfiring out of the carb, you might have a very rich gas situation. If I were you, I'd try starting it with the fuel petcock shut off and see what happens. If it runs good until the bowl runs out of gas, then something might be wrong with the carb, such as a stuck float needle.
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Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 2:33pm
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There is no additive that ensures there is no water in the fuel. Additives like HEET trap the water and allow it to run through the fuel system to the engine. If there is significant water to start with, you'll need to drain it. I would still put new points and condenser it it. If it's just puttering while cranking, you can try advancing the timing. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 2:36pm
Exactly right. I added about 3 or 4 bottles of Heet to a gas tank once that had water. Wasted the Heet. Still had to drain the tank. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: BobHnwO
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 2:48pm
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Sounds like it's flooded,shut off gas,take out plugs,run starter couple rounds,clean plugs with ether,install plugs and start.
------------- Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow. |
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 3:17pm
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I shut off the gas tried to start it and nothing. I removed the plugs, turned over engine several times, cleaned plugs and still nothing. I gave it some ether and then I gave it some propane and nether helped? I'll keep thinking, Thanks for the info |
Posted By: Gordy
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 3:18pm
poster said it is a 45 so should have distributor not mag, easily changed to solenoid push button start and pick up for 12 volt ignition start 6 volt run |
Posted By: junkman
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 3:54pm
| What kind of plugs are you running? Also might try running a jumper wire directly from the battery to the mag just to make sure you are not loosing current when you let off switch. |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 3:58pm
| Do you have a crank to crank start it? If so pull the plugs and hand crank it and see if it still has spark w/o using the starter. I also thought being a 45 it would have a dist. Look at the points and condensor. If it starts using starter then dies when you let off it's related to this somehow. My 45 takes on condensation worse than any other tractor I've ever seen. Look at the sediment bowel for signs of water and smell the gas in it. open the drain on the bottom of the carb and see what it smells like. put your finger under while it's running and you can feel the difference between gas and water/gas. Let it run until it's good gas or drain the gas in a jug so you can save it and try new gas and if you do this open the drain on the carb and let it run a minute with the new gas. |
Posted By: Teddy (punchie)
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 4:32pm
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Plugs type and number , AC 44, 45, 46, 47, 48 work well. Autolite are ok Not sure of the number. Chanpion are a pain.
Now spary the plugs with gumout and clean, spary again let dry. Now spary with ether on the plugs and replace wet with ether. Try to start. She should fire, if it does and doesn't start repeat. Now if you are takeing out the plugs, wet from gas. Turn off gas and repeat, also no choke if plugs are wet.
Drain bottom of carb , see if it has water in it.
Bad Gasoline?
Timing? I don't think so.
Coil (mag) only making good spark when jumping??? Try to make it junp some, place the plug wires on just a little back from being the hole way on the plug.
Try pull starting ???
Hope you find what going on !!
------------- Ac D-19, a Number of WD's, One WD45, Two 444 balers, Ac plows and etc. |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 6:44pm
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if it has been changed to distributor with coil, it sounds to me as if it is losing voltage to the coil once the starter is let off. try a jumper wire directly to the coil to be sure it is getting voltage. sounds like ignition to me. did the rotor crack and let it get out of time? are the plug wires on the correct cylinder? make sure you are tracing the rotation of the dist in the proper direction. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 7:29pm
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I have replaced the points and condenser, When I am cranking over the engine with the starter the plug wire throws a spark 1" long. This tractor is a 45, it had a mag when I got it, I then switched it over to the external coil right after I got it. I haven't had any troubles with it until now? I looked through the mag and I didn't see anything that looked broke or out of place. I am going to go talk to the local tractor mechanic here in town and see what he has to say. Thanks for everyone's help |
Posted By: Auntwayne
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 8:33pm
| Make sure your fuel cap is vented, sounds like vapor lock !!! Vent hole blocked ??? |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2011 at 9:00pm
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From your description of what it does, dadsdozer hit the nail on the head. Run a wire from the battery to the coil, bypassing the whole wiring system. Try starting it. I t could be anything from the ignition switch to any of the wire before or after the switch.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 4:40am
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do not let the fact that it has spark when you crank it fool you. if it fires when you crank it and then it dies when you let off the key it is loosing spark. try leaving one plug out but still hooked up to the wire and turn it over and see if it loses spark when you let off the key. if it starts then you let off the key and the spark goes away, it is a power feed issue. if your tractor has an external coil, it does not have a mag, it has a distributor. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: BobHnwO
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 5:59am
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Check for defective ignition switch.
------------- Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 6:49am
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I'm coming in on this kinda late, but wet plugs are usually an indication of an Ignition problem, unless its obvious fuel is running out the bottom of the carb flooding the engine. 45's normally were equipped with a Distributor. To me, you need to emphasize whether or not it definately has a Mag in it, or its normally equipped Distributor and go from there. An external coil can be used in either application, but the symptoms of a no spark problem will differ between the two applications if the problem is in that area. I've repaired many a Mag that had an external coil used with it. Send a picture if you can. A picture is worth a thousand words...
mailto:Steve@B&B - Steve@B&B
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Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 7:11am
| I dont like the smeel of the converted mag thing, check timing something may have "slipped" inside old mag when you shut it of. |
Posted By: Richard
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 12:04pm
| Be sure the cylinders don't have an excessive amount of gasoline in them although if you cranked the engine with the spark plugs out if that were the case at least some of the gas should have come out. This condition can happen if the float valve doesn't stop the gas flow since this is a gravity flow system. I'd put a tube in the cylinders and try sucking out any gas that might be in there. We worked on an engine quite a while one time on a D15 before finding out what happened. |
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 2:31pm
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Here are some pictures of the mag converted to a distributor. [TUBE]http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb81/Tobemeghan/Pictures039.jpg[/TUBE] |
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 2:33pm
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The yellow wire goes to the POS side of the battery, when the engine is cranked over it throws a 1" spark. [TUBE]http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb81/Tobemeghan/Pictures041.jpg[/TUBE] |
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 2:36pm
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The black button on the "Right" side of your screen is the "Kill" and the chrome button on the lower right is the "Start" button, the other switches are the headlights. This old tractor doesn't have hardly anything for wiring, what you see is all that is there. [TUBE]http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb81/Tobemeghan/Pictures042.jpg[/TUBE] |
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 5:42pm
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OK... I'm getting closer, I tried removing the spark plugs and turning over the engine to get out the gas in case it is flooding, I the spun the engine for a lot longer this time and then put back in the plugs and tried to start it. It started but it was rough, it ran for about 10 seconds and then quit, the more I tried to start it the less it would run. I am now thinking the float in the carburetor needs adjusted, does anyone know where the float should be adjusted to? Thanks for everyone's help |
Posted By: dadsdozerhd5b
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 7:21pm
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with the bowl off and the carb upside down the float should be parallel to the bowl base. basically level. try blowing in it with your mouth to be sure seat is working and not just slowing the gas down. ------------- HD5B, HD5G, (2) FARMALL A's, CUB. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, IGNORE THE LAUGHTER. FLANNEL IS ALWAYS IN STYLE. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 7:54pm
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Once after I went through a carberator I somehow bent the float so that it hung up on the inside of the carb and caused immediate flooding. Scratch my head on that one til I took the carb off again and just happen to notice I didn't hear the float jangle when I turned it upside down and back again. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 8:27pm
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It is definitely flooding. When I try to start the tractor it tries to run, it pops a few times and then quits. I did notice when it quits it runs gas out the air intake on the carburetor. I sunk the float in hot water and I didn't see any air bubbles so I don't think the float is sinking, the needle isn't sticking and the needle seat is tight. What would make the carb flood like that ??? Thanks for any info |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 8:58pm
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Did you check to see if the float is hanging up? Can you try another carb from a running tractor?------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 9:21pm
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I'll check to see if the float is hanging up, I don't have any other carburetors to try. I'll keep looking, Thanks |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 10:44pm
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Disconnect the air cleaner and try running it. If the air cleaner is plugged it will run like it was choked. I have had a carb (not on an Allis) that the float would stick down when it dropped and flood the engine. Is the choke connected to the rod properly? It isn't sucking the choke shut when it starts is it? ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Burns-Tractor-Sales
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2011 at 9:23am
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someone said if it has a rubber tipped needle (which it does), to tap
the needle into the seat so it makes a ring on the rubber tip, so it will seal tighter. I did
that this morning and I had the tractor running for about 20 seconds,
(longest it has ran in a long time) then it flooded again and then would not start? I checked and the float is not hanging up, the needle and seat are new so there shouldn't be any thing in there. The float is bent right, so I still don't know why it is flooding? when it fires and then quits, it blows all of this gas out of the air intake? Thanks for the help |
Posted By: BobHnwO
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2011 at 11:57am
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Check the float for a hole!
------------- Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2011 at 10:13pm
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When the carb is assembled, if the drop isn't set right on the float it can drop too far and hang up on the bowl. I know of no way to check this other than to set the drop to the manufacturers specifications. I just went through this on my 35 WC. It would flood real easy sometimes when trying to start it. The bowl was 1 7/8 deep and the float dropped 2" when separated from the bowl. I bent the tab to hold the float to about 1 5/8" and it seems to be working fine. Your carb may be different so you have to find the specs or measure the parts and figure out what should work. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |