here we go again!
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21985
Printed Date: 13 Feb 2025 at 1:27am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: here we go again!
Posted By: redline
Subject: here we go again!
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 12:34pm
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http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/agco-to-buy-cnh-from-fiat_5-ar12666 - http://www.agriculture.com/news/business/agco-to-buy-cnh-from-fiat_5-ar12666
Does this mean bye bye massey? ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Replies:
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 12:39pm
| Great link redline, one piece of advice: Please contact your congressman and senators and DEMAND this not be allowed to go through! |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 12:46pm
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It shouldn't be allowed to happen, but I doubt that anyone has the spine to stop it. Everything is headed toward huge monopolies. ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: Russ-neia
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 1:01pm
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First line: "Agco Corp. (AGCO) is interested in buying CNH Global NV (CNH) from Fiat SpA (F.MI), the chairman and chief executive of the U.S. tractor maker said in an interview published Wednesday in Italian business daily MF."
Since when??? ------------- The innovators offer what others will imitate. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 1:11pm
| One more comment regarding this "distraction". It looks to me like Dickenhagen is putting this out is to distract the investment community from his mismanagement in NA. I find it nearly impossible for something this disastrous to happen with the major financial issues in Europe, and the fact that AGCO would need something like Billions in the teens to make this purchase, larger than all of their other acquistions combined! With the SA gravy train about to come to an end, NA sales tanking and Europe questionable, why not flood the media with new speculation? |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 1:29pm
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I've got it! JD is paying Dickenhagen under the table! First to kill AGCO, now they want him to kill Case and New Holland next. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 4:02pm
| That would be a site to see only the BELOVED MASSEY FERGESON and JOHN DEERE tractors in the fields ; of coarse CASE IH + NEW HOLLAND tractor production would cease ; EVERYONE wants a MF they just havent realized it yet ; Dikenhagen will let you know |
Posted By: DREAM
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 4:20pm
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I have sneaking feeling that what Jordan is suggesting may have more truth in it than he knows. Only thing is Deere is not paying Richenhagen, he is just that ignorant. Or maybe he is just that anti-American. Seems like the perfect way to destroy another (former) American company. If that happens, there will only be green tractors in the fields. It's already that way in a lot of this state. Deere is the only manufacturer that most farmers here trust enough to believe they will still be around next year to get parts from. Just sad to see what they did to AC, Oliver, White, MM, and the rest. ------------- I didn't do it! It was a short, fat, tall, skinny guy that looked like me! |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 5:48pm
| Looks like used tractors for me the rest of my life. I thought New Holland was going to buy up AGCO when Dikenhagen relized that massey wasn't selling and he was going broke? |
Posted By: JoeO(CMO)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 5:55pm
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INTERESTING! There has to be cash flow under the table to and from somewhere besides what is in the article. ------------- |
Posted By: Unit3
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 5:59pm
| This afternoon soap opera needs a title. Any ideas? |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 6:07pm
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How bout "THE MONOPOLY" and put dikenhagen as the fat little banker |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 6:16pm
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Anybody registered on that site? Please leave a comment about the US tractor maker.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 6:19pm
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The Dumb and the Rest Of Us. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: ScottinSWIL
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 7:46pm
| As a owner of a NH tractor I hope this won't be the beginning of another screwed up mess like the whole Agco fiasco now. The CNH customers should be very worried. |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 7:59pm
| I don't just think CNH customers should be worried. Everyone should be. The price on equipment will go out of site. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 8:20pm
| We'll, I'll be going to Deere if that happens. I was hoping for a New Holland bi-directional but will wait to see what folds out here. I can't see this happening though. |
Posted By: Oldoug
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 8:39pm
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I think the first time I heard this rumor was in the summer of 2009 even before AGCO annouced the end of the orange, it's been going around a while I know. Never say never. ------------- Matt Folkers FOLKERS RESTORATION Restoring vintage things to last so the future can enjoy our past. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 8:44pm
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Here's Righenhagen saying it's not in the cards on October 15. CHICAGO, Oct 15 (Reuters) - The chief executive of farm equipment maker Agco Corp AGCO.N said on Friday the company is focused on improving margins, not mergers and acquisitions, as the best way to grow and increase its profitability over the next five years.Martin Richenhagen told Reuters in an interview that Agco might buy some smaller makers of niche farm products, such as sprayers or harvesters, in specific markets, such as Latin America, "to round out our product offering." But he said big deals -- such as the one he admitted last summer he was open to doing -- were not in the cards. But wait, that was almost two month before he changed his mind and is now interested in buy CNH again. Can anything he says be trusted? |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 8:48pm
| When the CEO says it, I think it"s more than a rumor. |
Posted By: Daehler
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 8:50pm
| He might be worse than a politition is, can never keep a story straight. |
Posted By: acwdwcman
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 9:06pm
| good post |
Posted By: acwdwcman
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 9:09pm
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who knows what the world is comming to..
right now all i care about is allis chalmers and my family.
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Posted By: EPALLIS
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 9:19pm
| Dickhagen? Good one. I think the whole thing is positioned to pump up the stock of both companies and "put them in play". My 2 cents. |
Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 9:39pm
http://agriculture.newholland.com/us/en/Products/Agricultural-Tractors/TV6070-Bidirectional-Tractor/Pages/Loaders_details.aspx - http://agriculture.newholland.com/us/en/Products/Agricultural-Tractors/TV6070-Bidirectional-Tractor/Pages/Loaders_details.aspx Here you go. They've had one sitting out front of the New Holland plant in New Holland, PA for a few months. I don't know if its still there or not but it looked pretty good.
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Byron WC in SW Wi wrote:Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 9:41pm
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All I've to to say is this is bound to materialize even more in a few months.... One of my friends father is an engineer for CNH and my friend is studying to become one too...I'll see if I can do some digging and find out something from someone in the offices...
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Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 9:47pm
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Another idea... Since AGCO's stock has had lackluster performance over the past month, and is auctally down today, maybe it was just a ploy to acclerate their stock again... After doing some more internet digging....I came up with this...Different source, same info, different article... http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/keyDevelopments?rpc=66&symbol=AGCO.K×tamp=20101208101200 - http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/keyDevelopments?rpc=66&symbol=AGCO.K×tamp=20101208101200
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Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 10:00pm
| IF agco gets this done, then there will be no chance of an orange tractor again. |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 10:05pm
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If it's like most companies, the employees are the last ones to find out anything. The bidirectional sure doesn't look much like my old Versatile 160. How is AGCO going to get govenment permission to purchase CNH when Fiat had to sell that European combine line to buy CNH. Plus Fiat had to sell Hesston so they could buy New Holland. If the deal did go down, there is a good chance Buher and Kubota would ramp up NA sales. You can bet JD won't let this happen with out a fight, I suspect they have a lot of politicians in their pockets. If nothing else, this could be very interesting to watch. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2010 at 10:13pm
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Yeah they couldn't get the hay line for sure. They'd probably have to sell off the big tractor lines too so maybe IH will come back into existence like Versatile did? Doubt AGCO would go through that much trouble and loose IH. Maybe they'll sell off the MF side and AC will come back? Too many parallel equipment lines. Yeah the bi-directional is cool and would work for just about everything I do. |
Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2010 at 2:59am
| i'll still be orange, thru my lifetime! |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2010 at 5:34am
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More and more monopolies are being allowed (look at Monsanto with 90% of the seed business) so who knows what the government will allow. Maybe they'll have to sell off big parts of either AGCO......oops excuse me I mean Massey Ferguson or CNH. If these companies are supposedly global then who makes the decision of what they would be allowed to keep? ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2010 at 10:17am
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Could you just imagine them attempting to convert CNH over to Massey / Challenger? I think that might cause a little more uproar among N.A. farmers than dropping the AGCO name and orange paint did. I know a lot of Case IH guys that don't know that IH died in 85, they gained Case not lost IH, LOL! They don't believe they own a Fiat now and they aren't going to blindly buy a Massey because it's now declared the "new" IH. Anyway, I can't see them pulling this off without shedding some brands or a division or two between the two companies, even with our almost nonexistant antitrust laws, the Euro govs will make them. How many lines of combines, hay equipment and planters/seeders can one company own? And how few options can there be before there's a monopoly in the equipment industry?
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Posted By: Kcgrain
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2010 at 8:40pm
| My Grandpa had a saying "Talk is cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey" and that sums up this artical to a T. How does david buy goliath??? Also when NH bought out Case IH, they had to get rid of the 4wd, and Genisis line to Bueler, The Case small tractors went to McCormick, Hesston had to previously be disposed of to Agco when fiat bought New Holland originally, plus numerous othe smaller lines had to be spun off to allow the anti trust, and monoply laws to not stop the aquisition. So if there was any merit in this , what would be left? There was talk that Fiat wanted out of CaseIH and be solely New Holland again, I could see something like that.....maybe, but even than it would need alot more resourses than Agco has. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2010 at 9:06pm
| Like I said in an earlier post, it is imperative to contact your legislative delegation from your state/area and head this thing off at the pass, this simply cannot be allowed to happen. The bullheaded clown at AGCO can't manage an outhouse let alone CNH combined with AGCO. He already has AGCO turned from a $8B annual company down to a $6.5B annual company since taking over. This, all during a period of a robust farm economy! |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2010 at 11:30pm
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KC grain nailed it. I can see why AGCO suddenly needs CaseIH, they aren't selling tractors in NA. Of course they could just have promoted AC, I don't think Case ever outsold AC until they bought IH, a year before AC went under. IMHO, the best thing AGCO could do is clean house in upper management, bring back the Orange tractors, along with an orange line of machinery, dump Challenger wheeled tractors and let MF be the small tractor line they have excelled at in the past. If they want to do things different in Europe and SA, more power to them, but don't mess with NA.
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 6:58am
Your comment on Kubota is interesting as well, I spoke to Kubota territory rep at HHD and they have new higher horsepower tractors in the works. That along with Versatile will fill my needs.
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Posted By: AC1
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 7:22am
| I don't want to start a big war on here, but this is an "old" allis website and I think we need to be concerned about part availability to keep the orange alive. All this anti-AGCO talk concerns me with regard to getting parts in the future. If you do not plan to purchase new equipment from AGCO or anyone else, then all this negativity is nothing more than babble. If you farm and buy new equipment, then you have every right to be concerned. For the rest of us hobby farmers and tractor collectors, simply keeping the orange alive is a priority. No matter who buys whom or vice versa, business is business and preserving history is just that. We have 3 AGCO tractors that we purchased new and all 3 are great. I bleed orange and hate what is happening, but it is what it is and you vote with your wallet. Please support your remaining AGCO dealers and keep the OLD orange alive. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 7:38am
AGCO is already discontinuing many many parts even for the 8000 series. I don't see the difference if they quit making parts on their own as they are doing now or if it's because they leave the North American market which when I think about it is their own plan also. They are not planning on being a player in North America. The best thing that could happen is that we are rid of them in quick fashion so maybe some other company will take over what is still there cause a slow death will put orange in the same category as MM. Wishful thinking maybe. I rank AGCO/MF has hated now as Deere as far as I'm concerned. If you want to blame someone for the hurt put on the good dealers blame AGCO. They hung these dealers out to dry. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 7:40am
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Another food for thought, is this a ploy for the dictator to try and get this done and walk away with a large golden parachute? At the least, I believe it is to get Wall street and the press focused away from his lackluster performance. There could be a silver lining in this deal if the stars lined up correctly however, if it went through and AGCO was forced to sell the Hesston operation along with Gleaner, Hesston and White planter. This would give a little hope again. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 7:46am
I agree with Lonn, AGCO and their daily dealings are supremely important to old and new orange collectors and customers. We need to keep as much attention as possible on this subject. If all of us are quiet, which is what he wants, the dictator will have won. "Strong man" dictators want all of their opposition silenced.
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Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 9:08am
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Dream. How can you say that Agco ruined Oliver and MM? Did those brands not die out in the early 70's. I think 1972. Agco came into existence in the early 90's after a management buy out of Deutz Allis. They bought the White line around 93. That is 20 years later.
This Agco hating is getting ridiculous. Better wipe the foam and spittle off your computer screen!
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Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 9:19am
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I think maybe Richenhagen is bearing the brunt of most of this "dislike" and anger. It is amazing how his management, or lack thereof, has turned some of the most loyal and trusting customers and followers into an enraged mob. In the middle ages we would have stormed the castle by now. I think we are showing incredible restraint. ;)
It is unreasonable to go angering the villagers and expect things to be fine and dandy. ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 9:31am
| The guys with all those Red tractors with black stripes will be PO'd, can't see any good to come of this except to boost JD sales and prices. |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 10:28am
You mean when the paint becomes Massey Red? Whats the big deal?! its only paint! LOL!
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Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 10:42am
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The only good I can see coming from the acquisition on CNH would be a much larger crowd expressing their displeasure. Maybe then there will be some changes in management. ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 10:47am
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: ac.d17iv
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 11:11am
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Here is an updated link: http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/EXCLUSIVE-Agco-CEO-says-CNH-deal-talk-was-theoretical-2010-12-10T002033Z-US-UPDATE-1 - http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/EXCLUSIVE-Agco-CEO-says-CNH-deal-talk-was-theoretical-2010-12-10T002033Z-US-UPDATE-1 |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 11:20am
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OK, so we have just had a "theoritical" discussion here. Why does he take such pleasure from screwing with people? ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 11:39am
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Told you it was a stock stunt... On another note, it's nice to see the author of the article explain how they trace their roots back to Allis. EVEN a REPORTER understands!!!!! Arn't they the ones who almost ALWAYS get something wrong?
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Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 11:45am
| Theoretical? This news release wasn't just theoretical, the story may be backfiring now and he rearranges words to take the heat off. Don't doubt him, this is his real intention and he is likely trying to soften up the opposition to it, and/or deflect attention to his disruptive management of the US market. This guy is a bullheaded snake in the grass! |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 11:53am
I think it was just a stunt. Doesnt make sense for AGCO or Fiat. AGCO cant afford it; anti-trust issues; Fiat giving up a moneymaker...
On the reporter mentioning Allis, I noticed that too. I bet AGCO wasnt thrilled to read that line as that would go against the history they are rewrighting.
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 12:06pm
Fiat has been wanting to sell of Case for some years now. At least that's what I heard a few years ago. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 12:07pm
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I wonder if mr. Kellher, the reporter, has a farm background with Orange tractors?
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 2:51pm
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Man Richenhagen sounds like a fool in that article. Some of the dealers once said that if Richenhagen hadn't opened his big mouth they'd still be making orange tractors. Sounds like Richenhagen has an inferiority complex and needs to think he's big dog and spout it off. Unbelievable. The comments in that article are truly mesmerizing from a mental health standpoint. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer so if I can pick up from this I'm sure the shareholders are too. I bet they also don't like being manipulated and they will feel that way after Richenhagens comments. Might be the big straw that broke the camels back for Martin. One can only hope. |
Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 6:12pm
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Lets face it, "theoretically" it's more likely Fiat would be looking at buying AGCO in a few years rather than the other way around.
N.A may be small potatos compared to the rest of the world but a management blunder here like discontinuing your best selling (and name sake) brand for no apparent, or would that be a coherent reason, makes me think it's only a matter of time before AGCO makes major marketing mistakes in other countries.
Whether you buy it or develope it yourself, engineering always seems easier than selling.
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Posted By: ScottinSWIL
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2010 at 10:08pm
| Can't you all just picture Martin kicked backed at his desk with a big fat cigar, so proud of his leadership. Proabably laughs his poor word choice off about us orange lovers and all the complaining we are doing. But I guess if you make the big bucks like him you deserve some heat. So what is Agco really-------an American based company, or an American company that is not worried about sales in NA?? I happen to be one of the few in the neighborhood running Agco orange and now expecting us to eventually change to MF is more odd yet. After awhile you get tired of fighting off the green and red (CIH). Those dealers want our business too. |