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Hydraulics fundamental

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=205766
Printed Date: 13 Mar 2025 at 12:16am
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Topic: Hydraulics fundamental
Posted By: brkfldj
Subject: Hydraulics fundamental
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2025 at 4:44pm
I’m considering the purchase of a used dump trailer. The pictures of the trailer show two hydraulic lines to the cylinder. My CA and my D15 each have a single remote connection. Will a vented plug in the place of the return line permit the dump system to function using my tractors?
Thanks.
Jim

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ——— Ben Franklin



Replies:
Posted By: dkattau
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2025 at 5:21pm
You won’t be satisfied with the performance. Your CA and D15 use high-pressure, low-flow hydraulic systems. The box will raise really slow and you may run out of oil before it gets all the way up. A CA only holds 2 gallons of hydraulic oil.


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 8:33am
Yes....the vented plug will work


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 9:09am
Yes, it will work. However if the tractor develops more pressure than the cylinder is designed for, you will start seeing oil expulsion from the vent as the cylinder reaches maximum stroke and "bottoms" out; that is if the tractor has enough oil capacity to extend the cylinder fully. You really don't want to run the system low under pressure. When this happens, "Cavitation" takes place and things break from the extreme pressures involved.

Pressure moves the load, flow dictates how fast that load is moved. A two hose system as you reference uses flow/pressure to both extend, and retract the cylinder. A vented plug will allow gravity to drop the raised bed in theory, but not always the case once wear comes into the picture and the bed can "hang" in the air. This all depends upon the design and included angles of the design but usually hydraulic systems that are "double acting" are in place for a reason. The hydraulic down pressure also controls decent rate, and more/less holds the bed down when not in operation.

My unsolicited opinion is you would be much better off spending two to three hundred bucks on a double acting hydraulic pumping unit mounted and plumbed into the system.


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That's All Folks!


Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by brkfldj brkfldj wrote:

I’m considering the purchase of a used dump trailer. The pictures of the trailer show two hydraulic lines to the cylinder. My CA and my D15 each have a single remote connection. Will a vented plug in the place of the return line permit the dump system to function using my tractors?
Thanks.
Jim

It should work if its like my dump trailer it has a standard 8" stroke cylinder and doesn't require much oil to go full stroke.I have a cylinder on my trailer sickle bar mower and it works just fine with my D15.My dump trailer has an electric over hydraulic unit that has one hydraulic line and comes back down by gravity,have never had it not come back down.As far as the pressure thing I guess in theory it could blow a cylinder but I have used the AC tractors like WD,CA,D15 etc a lot over the years with various generic and other tractor brand cylinders and never had a problem.The cylinder on my trailer mower BTW is a factory New Holland cylinder,works fine no problem.


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 10:28am
Unless someone built it with old-style high-pressure/low volume implement cylinders, I concur with all the above, with the following notes:

What you PROBABLY have, is a double-acting cylinder on the trailer.  One hose goes to the port which extends the cylinder.  The other hose goes to the 'back' side of the piston, it retracts the cylinder.

You CAN install a vent on the back side of the piston (retract) and just use the front side as a single-acting cylinder (gravity down).  My dump trailer's electrohydraulic unit does this, and the cylinder has a vent directly ON the cylinder.

In doing this you'll need a significant volume of hydraulic fluid available in your tractor's pump, and due to your pump's design (high pressure/low volume), you'll be screaming the engine and waiting a long time for that cylinder.

IF, instead of venting, you connect that back-side of the cylinder to your tractor's reservoir, and cycle the cylinder a few times, adding fluid to the reservoir, the back-side of the cylinder will become additional fluid volume to compensate for your tractor's small lift displacement capacity.  Doing so will NOT give you down-force, it'll just take up the extra fluid you'll need.  Of course, if your hose couplers don't seal, this will immediately all flow out on the ground when you disconnect the lines... so you'll want to couple them together or cap them.

And it'll be slow... VERY slow... but It will generate significant force ...And as others noted, the cylinder will be a risk of blowing seals IF you ever 'top out' the cylinder (stall it at end of travel) or if you overload the dump box.

As for 'return', I have had circumstances where MY dump trailer did not want to retract... just a little too light, and the cylinder packing was a bit too snug, and oil was a bit too cold, it took some fussing to get it to come back down.  At that point, I DID wish for a double-acting setup... but it doesn't happen often.

IF I was building a dump trailer specifically for use behind a tractor, then I'd set it up to run off the tractor's auxiliaries AND use it for extend and retract.  I use my current dump trailer behind my D17 all the time, but I pull it on the road with my pickup too, so the electric unit works just fine.  I can operate the trailer dump from tractor seat using the pendant control, it's got a 12ft tether, I just hang it on the axle tube.  Uses a common car battery, and I have a little solar cell atop the battery box, with an inexpensve MPPT charge controller in there...  If I'm running it hard, I'll connect a charger to it at night, but during summer it takes care of itself...


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.



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