190 XT Gas tractor issue
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=205596
Printed Date: 13 Mar 2025 at 3:52pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 190 XT Gas tractor issue
Posted By: 6wheeler
Subject: 190 XT Gas tractor issue
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2025 at 3:00pm
| Hi all. I got my remanufactured carburetor back and it is finally warm enough outside to put it on. I put it on and set the idle air screw to the factory setting 1 1/2 turns. The problem I am having is, I believe a fuel pressure issue. When I crank it, the fuel just lightly spurts out of the fuel line. I think the pump may be bad. I am not getting gas in the crankcase. So, I wonder if it is just a bad diaphragm. Is there a kit for them? Or, would it be better to just put on an electric pump. I believe the system only makes about 2 to 4 psi. But, how many gpm pump would you all suggest? The tractor fires off nicely with a little sniff of happy juice. Just seems like it is not getting enough fuel. There is fuel in the carb. I just don't think it is enough. Any help is appreciated. Thanks. Pat |
Replies:
Posted By: Northern Hoser
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2025 at 3:20pm
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Hey Pat, if there is fuel in the carburetor bowl then there is enough fuel for starting. a fuel pump issue will show up if the fuel level in the bowl is allowed to drop enough that it causes a lean condition, usually when its using more fuel under load. If it's pumping at all while cranking over I'd say that's normal, but I don't know about the 190xt specifically. If in needs canned heat to light off it's probably another issue Matt
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2025 at 4:36pm
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A manifold/carb gasket leak is a possibility. IF not then the mixture needs to be richer probably - turn the idle bleed screw in and try again. If you can't crank the unit there is not enough vacuum or an idle circuit is stopped up. If it has no leaks - use ether while idling to spray around manifold to detect leaks - send the carb back. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: JimWenigOH
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2025 at 5:59pm
| Is it the Holley or a Zenith? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2025 at 6:56am
| If the fuel pump moves any fuel at all, it should start and run. At wide open throttle sitting still (no load) the engine will consume 2.88 GPH or .048 GPM. So if the fuel pump provides 6+ OUNCES a minute, that is enough to keep it running. Now, when hooked to a plow, the fuel burn rate goes up to 8.03 GPH or .134 GPM ( 17 ounces per minute at full load). |
Posted By: 6wheeler
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2025 at 9:27am
| It is a Zenith Carburetor. 13303A to be specific. I know I have a good seal. When I spray starting fluid around the base it doesn't make any difference. It seems like it is not putting any gas up into the intake at all. It doesn't matter how much I screw in or out the screw. I am starting to think it could be the carburetor has an issue. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2025 at 9:49am
| Choke is fully closed tight when you try and start it ?? Throttle must be open some, not a dead slow idle. |
Posted By: DanielW
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2025 at 11:15am
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'Then and Now Automotive' in Weymouth, MA has fuel pump kits for them. I believe their part number is CK-42-20, but they can look it up and check. They're very helpful and can cross-reference and build a pump kit for pretty much anything. Before I rebuilt the original mechanical fuel pump for my 180 gasser (same engine and fuel pump as the gasser 190) I used an electric pump. If you go that route you want as low a psi as possible: 2-4 psi max, and even then you'd better have a good needle valve & seat and they can sometimes be overpowered. And I suspect you're right that the original pump diaphragm is bad and letting gas enter the crankcase - same problem I had. If I were you, I'd rebuild the original with a kit from Then and Now.
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Posted By: DanielW
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2025 at 11:32am
| I just re-read your original post and see you said you're NOT getting gas in the crankcase. My apologies. I thought you were. It's still probably not a bad idea to rebuild the pump. The rubber of those old diaphragms doesn't hold up to modern fuel very well: The pump on my 180 and a couple diaphragms from a few gas Fordsons I had all turned spongy and permeable with new gas - they all started leaking gas into the crankcase at some point. |
Posted By: 6wheeler
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2025 at 3:50pm
| I have an update. I hooked and electric pump up directly to the carb. with a line into a gas can. And, it lit right off. So, I took my air hose and blew the lines out back into the tank. When I looked into the tank afterwards, There were alot of rust chunks that went back into the tank. When I looked into the tank before that? It looked very clean in the bottom. The only thing in there was a piece of the cap gasket. But, it was nowhere near the sediment bowl port. The rust chunks must have came from the line. Or, were trapped in the sediment bowl inlet. For information, you can only see the left side or second sediment bowl inlet through the cap. Not the right hand side one. But, after that? The pump still wouldn't pick up fuel. I hooked the electric fuel pump up to the fuel line to the carb. I let it draw fuel through the line through the factory pump until fuel came. The line was dribbling steady. So, I cranked the engine and, voila! We have fuel, a steady stream. I hooked it back up to the carb. and, it runs fine. So now? The next step will be pulling the sediment bowls off and putting screens in the inlets to keep the rubbish out. It looks like that will be a job getting under the tank. But, I will make it work. Thanks alot for all of the advice. Just glad I got it running. Thanks Pat |
Posted By: 6wheeler
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 1:32pm
| Ok. So,for some reason it ran out of fuel again after sitting. I have spoken to the folks that sell the kits. I sent them everything they requested for a kit. 2 weeks later no response after several emails. I need the tractor. So. Does anyone have an electric pump you would recommend for this tractor? I will convert it. I just need to know an idea of what to use. Thanks Pat |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 1:44pm
| Just a 12 volt gasoline electric fuel pump that can pump at least 10 GPH (gallons per hour). It can pump 100 gallons an hr and that's ok. Just has to be 10 GPH minimum. I'd say 2 psi is enough. 5 psi might be plenty. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 3:00pm
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I don't like to push much over 5 PSI into a carburetor |
Posted By: 6wheeler
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 3:55pm
| I aa couple of Edelbrock 2-3.5 psi, 30 gph pumps that I used to get it running. Would one of these be adequate? And, not overpower the needle? At 30 gph it should pump enough fuel to keep it running under load I think. Am I close? Or will this over fuel? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2025 at 4:57pm
| The 30 GPH is what it is CAPABLE of. The 3.5 psi will not overpower the needle/seat. It will work just fine. |
Posted By: 6wheeler
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 12:30am
| Thank you. That is what I thought. 30 gph is what it would only run unrestricted. 2-3.5 average is what I was looking for. Maybe the pump repair place will respond someday. But, until? I will put the pump on tomorrow. Downed trees to move.....Thanks for all you help all. Pat |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 8:10am
| The rust in your tank is the root problem and won't go away on its own.My solution with all old gas tractors that has worked well for me is to take the sediment bowl off replace it with a 3/8 nipple then run screw on a T to the nipple.Out the side of the T I put on a nipple that fits the gas line hose then on the bottom I out another nipple with a brass valve in the end.Most of the rust that comes out the tank into the 3/8 nipple will fall directly into the lower nipple then the valve can be opened to let the rust out.On the line going to the carb or in your case the fuel pump I install a clear inline filter so I can see what has come out of the tank into the fuel line.This keeps anything out of the pump and/or carb.If the gas quits flowing thru the filter its either stopped up with crud or the gas had water in it and swell the filter shut.Replaceing the filter is simple and costs next to nothing.BTW I ran a D19 for years that orginally had a fuel pump with no fuel pump just have to keep in mind not to let the gas get below half a tank. |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 8:49am
Just get the tank cleaned out. Problem solved. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Gary Burnett wrote:Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 8:52am
Probably the best solution but then again it won't stop things from being in the new gas or other things that seem to be able to get in a tank.Or keep the tank from rusting in the future.Its surprising the things I have seen show up in fuel filters.
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Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 9:05am
After having the tank cleaned, have it lined. It will prevent any rust from forming. I do it to all of my tractors and use fresh fuel. Sediment bowls are as clean as day 1, some are going on 10 years with no issues. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 11:49am
| sounds to me the tank needs to be cleaned or the problem will never go away, you can blow back the line every day the stuff in the tank will still find its way to the inlet and plug it off |
Posted By: ekjdm14
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2025 at 4:21pm
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My solution to dirty tank thus far, has been to use a short chunk of copper line pushed into the the inlet of the sediment bowl/petcock & cut to about an inch higher than the original inlet. This allows drawing fuel from a little higher up & the heavier chunks of rubbish just stay in the bottom of the tank. Quick & dirty fix but does the job. A clear inline filter (Wix 33003 or similar) is also a good safety net
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