Allis chalmers 190xt steering problems
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=204646
Printed Date: 25 Dec 2024 at 12:41am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Allis chalmers 190xt steering problems
Posted By: Allis Eli
Subject: Allis chalmers 190xt steering problems
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2024 at 1:34pm
Hey everyone, had a question on my allis Chalmers 190xt Gasser. I just bought the tractor as a nonrunning project. it have around 5k hours. It had a loader on it that I already took off. The previous owner told me the hydraulics went out on it and it was parked. Before I tried to start it, I removed the pump and took it apart. I also made sure that the engine was spinning the pump. Started it up and pump was pumping oil. However the problems starts when i try to turn the steering wheel the tractors front wheels and the steering wheel will turn a little. However when I turn the wheels more than 3-4 inches the steering wheel jumps back in the other direction. Is the steering system need a special priming method or?
Thanks
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Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2024 at 5:14pm
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No priming needed other than turn the steering wheel. So, what did you do to the pump while you had all 100 parts scattered on the bench ??? A seal kit for each of the three sections ?? Those pumps aren't for a novice as there are several different ways to reassemble them WRONG.
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Posted By: Allis Eli
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2024 at 5:23pm
I labeled each section, put line up and marked each section and took a photo before i took it apart. It has pressure, the steering wheel just jerks out of your hand when you get to a certain point. I tried turning the steering wheel a lot. The remotes and high and low work fine. I will check pump again tommarow. Could it be someting in the steering colomn?
Thanks
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2024 at 5:26pm
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Doubt it. Make sure the vertical priority valve spool on the rear of the pump is free to move up/down and the spring pushes the spool down into the bore. No new seal kits ???
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Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2024 at 9:50pm
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Are you sure the axle spindles aren't rusted tight or packed full of old hard grease?
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Posted By: Allis Eli
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2024 at 10:41pm
the spindles are free. Also have a question of the 190s pumps. Is the priority valve the assembly under the 7/8 inch plug on top of the pump the priority valve? when I took the pump out of the tractor I first removed that plug and there was no spring. Am I just not looking deep enough into the furthest back section? I did not take the whole back part apart only the front three sections. Am I missing something in the pumps back? Also on the seal kits I did put new orings in the groove but not new plates and composite seals. The little plates where still straight and had no scratches or grooves on them. Do you think is should open the pump up again and replace the little plates and composite seals?
Thanks for the replies DrAllis and youngorange2000
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 6:14am
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The vertical spool must be free to slide up and down. There is a spring 3 to 4 inches long that fits inside of it, then the plug compresses the spring. This must be correct for steering to work. At this point nothing else matters until there is a correct spring and a free sliding spool.
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Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 8:05am
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If this tractor is old enough to use the port plate on the back of the pump,make sure that you don't have a couple of the lines mixed up with their corresponding locations.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 8:26am
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I'd forgot about that possibility and have seen it done before. Those 2 steel lines at the rear of the pump cross-over one another, not outside to outside and inside to inside.
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Posted By: Allis Eli
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 9:42am
thanks guys, i will check the lines and spring. If my pump is missing the spring, where could I get a replacement? is it just a spring you could get at a hardware store if you knew the dimensions?
Thanks everyone for all the replies
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Posted By: Lynn Marshall
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 10:18am
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I may have a used port plate assembly. I can check tomorrow.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 10:44am
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Not just any spring. A specific relaxed length, wire thickness, coil count and spring pressure at a given compressed length.
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Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 6:59pm
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I guess first we should determine what style of pump it has as there were a few different pumps used on different years of XTs and it is possible to have been replaced with a 200 or 7000 maroon belly pump. Do you happen to have the SN on the tractor it's on the driver's side of the bell housing.
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Posted By: Allis Eli
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 7:15pm
Posted By: Allis Eli
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2024 at 7:16pm
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the tractor also has a three section pump. That is there are three sets of gears and thick plates in the pump
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Posted By: Acdiesel
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 11:06am
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If the supply and return lines are hooked-up backwards you will get the same results, with the steering wheel being ripped out of your hands when you start to turn it.
Dan
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D19 diesel,D17 diesel SER.3 D14 NF,D14 WF, D15 SER.II wf
D15 SER.2 DIESEL,D15 ser.II nf
D12 SER.I, D10 Ser.II
2-720'S
Gmc,caterpillar
I'm a pharmacist (farm assist) with a PHD (post hole digger)
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 1:01pm
If it’s a wide front it could also be a problem in the steering cylinder at the wishbone.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Posted By: Allis Eli
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 4:19pm
okay guys here is an update on the 190xt. the lines cross over each other like they should. I opened the plug and there is a spring in the top of the back plate. just to make sure it was primed, I cracked the lines at the steering cyl and oil did come out. It is filled with hydraulic fluid. So now I think either i screwed something up in the pump, Something is wrong with the spindles, or the steering cyl is messed up. I also ran the tractor around the yard today and it stopped ripping the wheel out of my hand. I just slowly turns and the steering wheel sorta vibrates.
Thanks
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Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 5:48pm
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I know they are different but my 7040 acted like that last description. I replaced the filters. Problem solved. You didn't mention whether you had done that or not. Maybe we're supposed to assume you did since you had the pump apart
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2024 at 11:12pm
Also sounds like the pump may be starving for fluid? Did you cycle the steering wheel to full lock left and right which bleeds the system? As said above was the filter changed and the sump screen cleaned? The screen often gets overlooked and they will become clogged if proper maintenance hasn’t been done. As Dr Allis said those pumps should be rebuilt by a qualified technician. Please understand I’m not saying you’re not qualified but they have to have the proper clearances and fitment to perform correctly. I sent mine to SLI to have it completely rebuilt due to steering issues and hydraulic issues. I couldn’t believe what a huge difference it made and everything works like it should. That was back in 2016.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Posted By: Allis Eli
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 2:14pm
thanks everyone for all the replies. I just got a new filter for the tractor and i am going to install it today. It was backordered for a few days. Thanks for the suggestion AC720Man, i have considered sending it in to get rebuilt, How much did it end up costing you. And what did they replace?
Thanks
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 3:21pm
Mine was a $850 repair, full rebuild. They also had to replace a few plates and the pump gears in it. Made a huge difference in how my tractor performed, not just the steering. A new good quality pump is $2,300. A friend of mine just bought one for his 190 because his could not be rebuilt.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 3:48pm
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The spin-on hydraulic filter isn't connected to the steering circuit. I hope it helps, but don't think it will. Are you FULL of hydraulic oil ??
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Posted By: Allis Eli
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 5:46pm
Yes it is full. I turned the wheels a bunch today and it seemed to get better. Now it just turns really slow. I also did clean out the screen under the pump. is that the screen everyone is talking about? or is it somewhere else?
Thanks
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 5:59pm
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If you still have the screen inside the left side frame, GET RID OF IT !!! That was an idea that was soon scrapped as it was nothing but trouble. Spline in a piece of exhaust pipe and throw that thing away !!! making sure there are no air leaks.
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Posted By: Allis Eli
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 6:02pm
okay I will, where is the other screen? or is there only the spin on filter. or do i need to clean some other screen.
Thanks
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 6:30pm
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Think it's like my 220...screen on end of suction pipe inside rear housing.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 6:30pm
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The other screen is under the belly where the suction tube connects to. It will require a gasket to remove and clean it. Why don't you try the elimination of this one close to the pump first. 45+ years ago I was taught whenever you see one of those GET RID OF IT !!!
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Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2024 at 10:13pm
Screen I am referring to is the sump screen under the transmission. I put some sealant on the bolt threads as well as the gasket that hold the sump on when I replaced the gasket. Dr Allis did they delete the screen that you are referring to in later models? The earlier 190’s had that screen you are referring to but my late 1968 doesn’t have that screen.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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