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Allis ingenuity ???

Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=204428
Printed Date: 27 Dec 2024 at 12:47am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Allis ingenuity ???
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Subject: Allis ingenuity ???
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 6:55am
Many people have thought of this but,
Only an Allis chalmers guy would do this....

IMPRESSIVE !!!

Practical...

Legal ?????????

Definitely an eye catcher .



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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate



Replies:
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 7:07am
I'm thinking DOT wouldn't like that setup!!!

He needs to invest in a bigger, safe trailer. I put three tractors (occasionally four) on my gooseneck with no problems and DOT doesn't bat an eye.


Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 7:17am
Well it doesn't look practical to me


Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 7:44am
I have seen several trailer sales places do something like this with empty trailers but never with loaded trailers...

Balls of steel and an expert on weight and balance still thinking this is a jack knife in the making...
I am still IMPRESSED !!!



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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate


Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:03am
Just checked, LEGAL in Ontario ( pickup, <75', <4600Kgs ,black plates) !
Looks like rear trailer has hydraulic(inertia ?) brakes, assume front has electric.
Provided it's loaded right, no different than a 'B-train'.....


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:23am
I probably should clear some things up for the nay-sayers. Legal in the state I reside in. Been used this way since 2016. Electric brakes on all six wheels. Each trailer can be used by itself or as a twin configuration. Ramps to the 2-wheel trailer span between the trailers for easy loading/unloading. Ramps are carried in the pickup box for weight on the truck. Rear trailer I built in 1997. Front trailer was built in 2016 with this possible configuration in mind. Both trailers have tor-flex axles. I used the front trailer more this summer than the rear, as I don't have the WD puller anymore. Front trailer is for narrow front end tractors only. The rig pulls very nice. Each trailer has marked chains so the load is ALWAYS where it belongs. After the first summers use, I moved the axle rearward 4 inches on the front trailer. I was able to offset this during the first summers use by adding 200 lbs more of front suitcase weights to get things where I wanted them. Yes. I can back the twin set-up into a parking spot if I have to. I try to avoid doing that, but I can do it.


Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:28am
I should have known it was yours Doc.

IMPRESSIVE !!!

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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:33am
Forgot to mention the truck is an F-150 !!


Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:33am
Dr did I read that right and the front trailer is built by you.
When first seen picture, was thinking that I never seen one like that before 


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:39am
Im sure Dr has it covered..... i would be concerned about the BALL and HITCH on the  truck as you have  basically 10K of weight behind it... Some ball  / hitches are rated for 5-6K..

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: DanielW
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:46am
Originally posted by jaybmiller jaybmiller wrote:

Just checked, LEGAL in Ontario ( pickup, <75', <4600Kgs ,black plates) !
Looks like rear trailer has hydraulic(inertia ?) brakes, assume front has electric.
Provided it's loaded right, no different than a 'B-train'.....

Only legal for in Ontario for registered commercial vehicles (and if the driver has a CVOR). And the MTO officers are always a little confused as to whether a pickup with a GVWR of over 20k is 'commercial' or not. They're sometimes happy to ticket you for driving an F250 past a weigh station without pulling in, even if it's registered for personal use only and has no load or trailer. But other times you'll be pulling a float with the same F250 and you'll pull into a weight station to do your due diligence, and they'll get angry and ask what the heck you're doing pulling in. Driving in Ontario has so many trivial laws, loopholes, regulations, and counter-regulations that even the MTO can't keep them straight. One page on the MTO website lists double trailers as legal and mentions nothing about commercial permits being required. Another link to the highway traffic act lists it as legal for motorhomes (which are NOT registered as commercial vehicles in Ontario). And yet another link on the MTO website says it's illegal to tow any double trailer setup unless it's a commercial vehicle. A trifle irksome for the common man to figure out.


Posted By: Ted J
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 8:54am
Dan, that is just CRAZY!!

Dr....NICE!!  I imagine it is just like backing a hay wagon??


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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17


Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 9:01am
looks like somthing i might try.    so all i have to say is,    just gitt'er dun


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 9:04am
2 5/16" ball on the bumper, WITH brackets joining the receiver hitch frame to the bumper underneath the ball, so both are pulling and supporting the ball.  Both trailers are homemade. The big advantage of the front trailer design is no one wants to borrow it for anything. In my state, this is considered recreational/personal and not commercial. I have never once been pulled over in 8 years by anyone...county, city or state.


Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 9:11am
dr.,  you are right about that front trailer i have a neghbor that set his axles all the way to the very back  he claims he can haul more, his truck is allways doing a wheelei down the road,        but no one borrows his trailers


Posted By: ekjdm14
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 11:27am
Doc. That is truly impressive & very much a contraption after my own heart. 

Don't think we'd get away with something like that over here in the people's republic of England, otherwise I'd be tempted just to see if my old 1.9D Citroen would pull two at once!


Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2024 at 12:57pm
Ford 150 ????

I belive Ford could use this rig in an advertisement !!!!



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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate


Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 4:58am
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

I probably should clear some things up for the nay-sayers. Legal in the state I reside in.


You sure it's legal?  I thought to pull doubles the first one had to be a 5th wheel/gooseneck?
AaronSEIA


Posted By: Kenny L.
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 7:15am
I've help Dr. unload and load them trailer and all I can say is when he builds something it's build with a lot of thought for safety and usable. 


Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 10:16am

Here's another shot.
I was unaware of how the setup worked.


Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2024 at 11:28am
My late Father-in-law frequently pulled a small camp trailer plus his 16' fishing boat behind a 1967 F-150 here in Idaho for many years; he also went into Montana as well. He had a CDL and did all of the research as to legalities, he never was hassled by the police for this setup.


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 8:03am
The Iowa DOT book reads differently than in 2016. But, still allows two towed trailers behind one truck/pulling vehicle. As long as total overall length is under a certain amount, all is good. THREE towed trailers are not allowed and that is in the very first paragraph.


Posted By: Oldwrench
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 8:04am
Backing up a setup like that for any distance must be quite the skill set!  Smile


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 8:33am
Auto trans is a MUST !! lots of back and forth sometimes.......


Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 8:14pm
DrAllis, that is a cool rig. With good functioning trailer axle brakes, in most cases if they were set at high activation, they’d anchor the f150 during hard braking. So then there is minimal Jack knifing potential. I’m guessing it’s loaded GVWR (17.700lbs ?) as follows:
F150~6200lbs,
One-Seventy~5600lbs,
Front trailer~500lbs,
WD45~4000lbs,
Rear trailer~1200lbs
How far off am I? Kinda thinking you’ve also installed a Jake brake on your f150 ? What year / engine is your f150?


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2024 at 9:52pm
One-Seventy at 5400 lbs. Front trailer is 1700 lbs.  WD-45 is 3600 lbs. Rear trailer is 1600 lbs with an aluminum deck plate floor. With front trailer ramps in the truck the F-150 should be 6250 lbs depending on fuel tank fill.


Posted By: Straanger
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 5:55pm
The state of Michigan requires a doubles endorsement. I know other states don’t. Just need to know the laws for the states you’re driving in.


Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2024 at 8:30pm
Curious about a Jake brake on f150?? Some sort of exhaust brake maybe? 


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 6:01am
Nope. None.


Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 7:08am
There's two visually imposing things that get peoples' hackles up necessarily:

First is that there's two trailers.  Not a complicated or difficult deal.  Backing up can be a challenge, but the key to ANY trailer backing, is having the proper proportions of distance between the tow vehicle's hitch to centerline, and the first trailer's hitch to center of axles.  If the tow axle distance is extremely short (or directly on) the tow vehicle's centerline, the tow vehicle's angle can be changed significantly with no impact on trailer vector, but if there's a long distance between, the swing of the tow vehicle's hitch WILL cause significant change in trailer vector.  Having an extremely short trailer 'toungue' length will make it nearly impossible to back up without significant adjustment.

once that first trailer backs well, then the same applies to the second trailer-to-first trailer relationship.  To back it, all you do, is focus on where the REAR trailer's hitch ball is going, and steer the FRONT to direct the rear... it's not that difficult if that front trailer's proportions are correct.

The second visually-imposing circumstance, is that they're TRACTORS... they're tall, and wide, and look ghastly heavy... but they're not.  When there's no ballast in the tires, no extra iron, they're actually pretty light.  I went to shuffle my WD up to the front shop last night with my little Kubota BX1800, it picked the nose of my WD right up and pushed it like a wheelbarrow.

As Doc's numbers show, it really isn't a heavy load.  Those two trailers, overlapped (nose to nose) on a tandem axle trailer would be no different in most any other circumstance, just a heavier trailer to carry both at once, and probably not as easily balanced.

His front trailer is the special one... a single axle, looks to be 8 bolt, that's usually 7000lb capacity.  10% rule means the hitch would be carrying 700lbs, which for the F150, is entirely reasonable... it's a Class 4 2" receiver, good for 1200lb tongue weight and 12,000 towed capacity.  He's at 12,300 gross towed... but 700 of that is on his hitch ball, not the trailing axles.  

The front tractor  is 5400+1700 for 7100lbs, but again, 700 on the tongue means 6400lbs on the 7500lb axle.

Now add the rear trailer, that's 1600+3600 for 5200lbs, but 520 of THAT is on the tongue to the FIRST trailed, so add 520 th the 6400lbs there, and that makes the front towed unit 6920.

The loading here is impeccable.  It'll tow wonderfully, and having brakes on every axle means it's slow just fine.  The F150 will have to work to climb and bring it up to speed, but will have no problem keeping it under control.  ;-)


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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.


Posted By: Cernunnos
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2024 at 10:39am
Excellent explanation Dave...I learned a lot.

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1951 CA, 1952 CA with cultivator, 20 Series 8' disc harrow, 2 bottom pick-up plow, forage blower, 2-row rear mounted drill corn planter, Allcrop grain drill, No. 80T sickle mower, MN No. 130 barge box



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