welding 300 gal fuel tank
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Topic: welding 300 gal fuel tank
Posted By: Sandknob
Subject: welding 300 gal fuel tank
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 7:52am
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I have a pinhole in our 300 gal gasoline fuel tank. Can I run a quick bead (with MIG of course) and be okay or do I need to fill with water and then weld? The tank is clean on the outside. I have heard about running exhaust thru them as well. Any ideas.
Thanks
Adam
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Replies:
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 8:08am
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fill it with a constant purge of argon or carbon dioxide. they will swell large with just water . Be carefull. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: roughstock
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 8:18am
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I have had success with JB weld on truck gas tanks. No risk of explosion. Just prep the areas with sand paper first and it last. Brian |
Posted By: NEJim
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 8:29am
| If you have a pinhole in it now you will have more shortly. It is rusting out from the inside. I don't think it's worth taking the chance of blowing yourself up over it. Only way I would try to fix it is with JB Weld.... I have seen what happens when one explodes. It's not pretty........... |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:02am
| Welding is NOT a good idea. You do and your new ID here may be EL Kaboom |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:10am
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There's enough of them out there for sale, I wouldn't mess with trying to fix one. J.B.Weld isn't a permanent repair. I've repaired gas tanks with it and it lasts about 1 1/2 years. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Roddo
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:19am
| If its a saddle tank and rotted where the straps surround it I've seen tanks repaired with bands welded around the tank where the straps sit. Its usually done on aluminum tanks as they are substantially more expensive to replace, but it could work for you on a steel one. Just make sure the bands go well outside the area that is corroded to get into some good metal to weld to. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:26am
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If it's 'just a pinhole', I'd drill it out a bit,clean the area REAL good, mix up some JB Weld,spread it over the area, then screw in a bigheaded selftapping screw into the hole,and laying some more JB Weld over it. Wait couple of days for it to get good and hard.
In the 'old dayze', I would've just cleaned the area and got out my 250Watt soldering iron and done the deed. Guess I'm getting wiser the older I get.....? ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:30am
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If you weld it, listen very carefully for the sound that indicates an impending problem...
KABOOM! ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Sandknob
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:35am
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We used to fill many of them with water and cut them in half with a cutting torch to make burn barrels. Never had a problem with the water doing that, thats why I asked.
Thanks for the replys
Adam
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Posted By: Sandknob
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:37am
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Its actually clean on the inside, it is just a bad seam weld.
Adam
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Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 9:40am
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pankey has it right, the only way to do it is with an inert gas purge. My father and I used to repair gasoline tankers quite often, buy a tank of liquid nitrogen and start pumping it in to purge the oxygen out. The nitrogen was cheaper but argon or co2 will work as well, just make sure you purge it well and keep it purged as you weld. I would take a chipping hammer and pick the area that you intend to weld with the sharp end. This will tell you where the extent of the rust damage is. You may need to cut a large section out and weld a new one in. |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 10:11am
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According to one shade tree VW repair manual I used to have, you just rub the area where the pin hole is with a bar of handsoap and that will hold for years. Its almost sure that one pinhole is in a cluster of thousands almost all the way through over the whole bottom of the tank. That pretty much makes it scrap iron and the iron man isn't happy with the prospects of it igniting and expanding rapidlly as he cuts it up. Gerald J. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 4:42pm
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I would have thought a former buisness agent of the pipefitters would have known how to weld up a fuel tank without the kaboom. . We welded a six inch diesel line up this summer . we drained it purged it with argon and welded it . after welding it we blew our purged down .the volume found about ten gallons of fuel that we didnt have drained due to a low spot. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: elalr
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 6:57pm
| filling it with exhaust will work or the water will work but it is still risky. you have to decide whether the risk is worth it. i can tell you it still can go wrong. i work with a man whos father was killed and his shop was destroyed in the 90's. his father was experienced in repairing these. something just went wrong that day. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 7:30pm
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yes the promblem with water is fuel and vapors is lighter goes to the top and finds air. the promblem with automobile exhaust is it can have unburned fuel in it that when combined with air oxygen can relite. A continuos flow of inert gas at 2 psi with a oxygen monitor alarming no oxygen at purge tape is the only way to weld a fuel tank safely. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 8:25pm
| I used to weld diesel tanks same way, I will gladly waste argon to keep my hair and not see the inside of the tank from the outside without looking in a hole. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 11:28pm
| My grandpa and his neighbor bought an old gas truck one time to use for hauling water. After hauling water in it for 2 years, they decided one day that they needed to do some modifications to it (i.e., weld on it). They backed it into my grandpa's garage to do the work. His neighbor crawled up on top of it to do the welding, and grandpa walked out of the garage and around the corner (Thank God he went around the corner). The neighbor barely struck an arc, and the whole end of the tank blew out. Fortunately no one was hurt, but I know it'll be a cold day in he!! when I strike an arc of any kind on a tank that has ever had gas in it. Darrel |
Posted By: Dave A
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 6:49am
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on steel tank the gas soak into the steel a little when you put heat on it it sweets out the gas and bvad things happen unless you can keep a good purge going. Don't think it is worth the chance. ------------- Play the game for more than you can afford to lose... only then will you learn the game. Winston Churchill |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:07am
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I am speaking for myself but i dont think firebrick or dmiller along with me would post a method on enternet that would cost someone their life. ever weld up a live natural gas line? ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: bigallis1
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:28am
| Adam, DON'T try to weld it. Why take the chance? |
Posted By: jjwo
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:50am
| Believe it or not, we have peened them shut. Propane tanks, Just start working the metal slowly. |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:51am
Plankey is 100% correct. I learned this from old timers when I was growing up and was also taught this in high school ag classes, in college and on the job. Another method for doing this repair: If the hole is on the bottom of the tank, here is one way to weld a leaky tank is a combination of techniques. 1. Drain the tank of all fuel. 2. Use an epoxy to seal the leak. 3. Fabricate a metal patch which is six inches larger than the damaged area. 4. Fill tank completely with water. 5. Fit the patch into position and weld. 6. Drain the tank. 7. Once tank is dry, refill with fuel. |
mlpankey wrote:Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:53am
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There is a way to weld anything in any condition or with any content, it just comes down to cost or preperation to value of finished work.
Guy I worked with tried welding on 265 oil tank after all the methods he heard about were used to purge it , took one side of garage wall out and him and son were 4 days in hospital and he was month off work.
Then neighbor was cutting up railroad tank cars, cut over 100 of them with torch, no problems at all as they used steam cleaing, nitrogen purge, and other safety measures to insure no explosive fumes or residue was left in cars. ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 8:13am
| mlpankey, I certainly was not accusing you or the others of posting a method that could cost someone their life, but I was just stressing the importance of using a proper method, and speaking for myself when I say that I would not weld on a gas tank. I do know that knowledeable people weld em up all of the time, Darrel |
Posted By: WC7610
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 8:41am
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300 gallon fuel tanks sell for next to nothing on farm sales. Get another and scrap this one. As someone above posted, if you have one leak now, you'll keep getting more... ------------- Thanks Most Bad Government has grown out of Too Much Government- Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 10:20am
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nitrogen is lighter than air argon is heavier than air guys. use the right procedure and its safe deviate from procedure and its not good. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 10:31am
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A good article on Nitrogen, and I learned something also ..LOL .. it is lighter than air (as it is 78% of air already)
yet it is used as a purge gas as it will absorb any other fumes into itself and dispell them into surroundings in less than explosive amounts.
http://www.uigi.com/nitrogen.html - http://www.uigi.com/nitrogen.html ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 11:03am
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nitrogen will work its promblem being lighter than air so it doesnt want to stay in the tank your purging as well as argon does argon being heavier and wanting to stay down low . So if in a garage its safe to say when the nitrogen rises to the cieling and causes the oxygen level to fall below ignition sources in the garage at tank level you have passed out as well. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Jeff(WD45-SATX-TN)
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 2:35pm
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I would opt for buying a new tank. While purging with CO2 or Argon is best, O2 monitoring would be an absolute must. Both for you as well as the inside of the vessel. N2 will rise. Argon and CO2 are indeed heavier and will pool. One thing to be aware of is it pooling in your shop as well. You need to be well ventillated. The CO2 and Argon will slowly fill you shop area like a bath tub. You kneel down into that invisible volume of gas to work. One breath and you are out like a light, done, end of story. Keep in mind that the environment we breath is only about 20 percent O2. Deviate either way and it can be your end. All of these gases are inert, do not smell, and are invisible. I work in the compressed gas business, 15 years now. Usually deaths from asphyxiation happen in 2s or 3s. Rescuers get to the victim down not knowing the environment, they to become overcome and die. Would need about 5-6 peoples figera to count the times I have heard about McDonalds or other fast food chains having O2 displacement deaths due to mis handling of the CO2 for the beverage carbonation. Same in the refining industry, huge pipelines are inerted with N2 and Ar. Someone avoids a confined space entry or even somthing as simple as looking in a man way is their end. Cant see the gas or smell it. They stick their head in to see whats inside or going on, breath normally and are gone.
Not worth the time, money, or risk. We go over these types of incidents just about every safety meeting.
My few cents..... ------------- 1954 WD45 NF "Iron Tater" |
Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 3:08pm
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We welded gas tankers 99 percent of the time it was weld a patch over a dent/tear or weld crack. The tanker was pressurized to 1 or 2 psi and with on of the tankers many fittings open to vent. You never can get aluminum tank clean due to its more porous nature of its oxides compared to stainless or steel. So we would let it purge for an hour of so and keep it purging while we worked on it. This would take better than half of an liquid nitrogen tank for a full sized tankers. For small tanks argon in a standard 110lbs would probably be better. If it had separate sections/tanks we purged them all to ensure no explosion. This was done in a 3 sided shed so there was no danger of suffocation. |
Posted By: FredW
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 4:32pm
| I have welded several with using CO2 and even just stick the air hose in the opening and weld, but I dont think I will do any more. At 66 why push my luck. I would just get another tank. Fred |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 7:30pm
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Filled a tank with watewr right to the top and thought it was full since water was coming out of top corner leaking seam. Put the torch to it and solder. Just as the solder melted, there was a woompf inside the tank and it buldged. ... and didn't leak anymore either.
Another fellow had brazed up a diesel fuel tank on an old army 6X6 and just as he closed the hole shut, it expanded. was funny to see a nice square tank with steps on the driver side and on the passenger side the tank was rounded with steps in it.
Then there was a guy that welded lots of tanks and he would put a hose into the tank blowing air from a vacuum cleaner. had one tank blow up in all the years was when the hose fell out and he didn't notice it.
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Posted By: roughstock
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 5:44pm
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What is the cost of purging a 300 gallon tank with Argon? What is the cost of a new 300 gallon tank? JB weld cost 6 bucks. ($12 perhaps if you need to re-repair it in a year or two) Just my $.02 Brian |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 7:47pm
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Before you use an epoxy, check the chemical resistant chart for the epoxy. |
Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 12:46pm
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Posted By: firebrick43
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 12:50pm
How much does 10 or 20 gallons, maybe even the whole tank full of fuel cost when the JB weld does fail. Rental of an argon tank and a plate of steel is realitively cheap even in comparison to the cost of a new tank. |
Posted By: roughstock
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 3:03pm
Touche..... I didn't consider that. lol Brian |
Posted By: SC Dan K.
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 7:25pm
| Just go to the auto parts store and buy fiberglass fuel tank repair K I T. even comes with a piece of sandpaper. I repaired a big tractor fuel tank over 30 years ago with one. Still holding when I last saw the tractor five years ago. Inexpensive and no explosion. |