Cloudy OIl again Please Advise ..Thanks
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=203310
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 10:43pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Cloudy OIl again Please Advise ..Thanks
Posted By: Albertfitch
Subject: Cloudy OIl again Please Advise ..Thanks
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 10:39am
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Dear fans of Allis .. Please what are your thoughts on this new
development . I had the head milled flat , new gasket and reassembled Your last advice saved the day ad I was up and
running I checked the oil a few times over the first 3 days ..looked
perfect but when checking the oil a week later it was very cloudy again .I
drained the oil pan and out rushed a quart of clear water and then 4 qts of
cloudy oil.
Should I re-torque the head bolts ..the
tractor manual I have on the D10 didnt mention it but but a car
mechanic did. If I need to , do I back them off a little in the
reverse sequence and then take them up to specs in the assembly
sequence. I also used a modern composite gasket and was told to put
it on dry , no sealer. Though the manual said lather it on and then
lastly I reused the head bolts . I drained the pan dry left the plug
out , filled the radiator, put a clean bucket under it and no water is
leaking into the pan after 3 days of just sitting . where did I go
wrong . All the best to you and my many thanks ; Albert
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Replies:
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 12:11pm
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that is a small leak. I have used BARS 1109 Copper Block Sealer for small problems withe gaskets, radiator, o-0rings on liners, etc... A 18 oz bottle cost about $10. ... You can use half of it and should solve your problem. It mixes with the antifreeze, no need to drain...
Dont get the pellets, the black gooie crap or silver flakes.... This is the right stuff.  ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 2:06pm
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Thanks Steve I'll give it a shot tomorrow . It sure beats lifting off the head again and lining up the push rods have you heard if it's necessary to retorque the head bolts after a few outings Thanks again for stepping in with such a quick and simple solution . All the best Albert |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 2:45pm
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I have SAVED 3-4 different tractors for $8. that had a "LEAK" problem.. Just last week my sickle mower B had 2 quarts of antifreeze in the oil.. I pulled the valve cover to see if the freeze plugs were OK... no problem there , so its the head gasket or o-rings on the liners.. The BARS works GREAT on those areas ! ... still got 1/2 bottle left for next time. And i did check the head bolt torque with the cover off.. Everything was TIGHT, so i dont really know what happened. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 7:10pm
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Steve thanks so much again for the suggestion , the picture, and the confidence from all your field work. It almost makes me wish my sweet Allis had more than 2 complaints over the the last 25 years , faithfully in harness...then I'd have more chances to go on the forum and enjoy the kinship from all you fine brothers . I'll get get back soon and again thanks for the help ; Albert |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 7:27pm
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I've never had much luck with those composite gaskets installing them dry. Always seem to leak. i always give them a good spray with copper coat gasket spray, then they are usually OK. And best to re-torque the head bolts after running it and getting it warmed up. Let it cool down first, then re-torque to specs. |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 8:09pm
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Alberta Phil I wish all you Allis brothers were just around the corner ,enough , to drop off a loaf of souerdough . If I had to explain the strength that made this country's character so great and successful ....I would send them here. Lord it's so refreshing to know you're all still there!!! Plan B if the down the radiator bottle isn't up to a larger problem ( fingers crossed ) Alberta Phil your help is on deck and thanks for the re -torque advice ; Albert |
Posted By: KMAG
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 8:46pm
| Visit an Advance Auto or Autozone and rent a cooling system pressure checker. Remove the oil pan. Pressurize the cooling system and look for leak(s). Check each cylinder o-rings - if no leaks and head freeze plugs were good, then head gasket failed/surface issues or block crack. |
Posted By: GreenOrange
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 7:05pm
| I don't know that I saw your original thread/post, so I may be way off base here... just trying to rule-out something simple - is this tractor parked outside and has it rained between when the oil was fine and when it was cloudy? I've seen significant water get into the engine through the muffler & manifold. I once had about 2 quarts of rainwater in a B engine over the course of a month due to it not having the correct style muffler on it, to shield the connection from the rainwater. |
Posted By: KMAG
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 7:36pm
Great suggestion - your clear water in oil pan must be from rain, unless no coolant being used. |
GreenOrange wrote:Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 8:09pm
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Hi Green and orange why can't I get medical advice like this anywhere, anymore !! If only their consults were 10 minutes away, as probative and insightful , generous and enjoyable as the prognosis I get at this forum from all you dear fellows . all out of goodness. If I was a mental depressive I'd be posting anything here every day and getting of those meds , I hadn't thought about rain down the pipe but you are so right . I did have a flapper cap on top and this all took place during an unusual dry stretch up here . i I followed the first suggestion of Bars copper sealer and fingers crossed tomorrow , Thanks again for all you good Help I'll post the results; Albert |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 8:14pm
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Thanks for weighing in KMAG wow I've learned so much from all of you no I only use my Allis from May to November without antifreeze and then drain it for the winter but you made a great observation . Appreciate you help and all the best Albert |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 8:25pm
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Hi Kmag again I took your advice today drove to the only Advance auto within 45 miles of my Little Hague , Ny and that was one tool they didn't have as a loaner though my store in Md does. So I borrowed one from a retired friend - auto garage only to find the rubber ring that scrapes the cylinder wall , even after a little added oil managed to creak out about 2 psi after furious pumping and hold it for 5 seconds . I went with the Bar sealer and if that fails I 'll follow your excellent procedure .. Thanks for all your thoughtful help all the best Albert |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 9:32pm
| cooling system should pump up to 7 to 10 psi and hold that for a week |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 9:58pm
| If you are running water with no conditioner instead of antifreeze you are rusting things up inside. Why do you not run antifreeze and be done? |
Posted By: KMAG
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 10:34pm
| The cooling system kits connect at radiator cap location to pressurize system. |
Posted By: ekjdm14
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 6:46am
The way the post was worded almost got me too, the cylinder wall & o-ring Albert's referring to is the pump part of the tester NOT of the engine  I wouldn't trust the results of the 2psi leaking down so soon, more than likely the pressure tester needs stripped, cleaned and resealed so it may still have passed had the pump been working correctly. The recommendation to run antifreeze is a good one, as they do contain a corrosion inhibitor which will preserve things & not require winter draining. Hopefully the Bars does the job OK. I've always had good luck with their products, but then again I've also had great success with a couple of teaspoons of ground black pepper!
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 7:50am
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draining out the radiator and block for the winter and letting things DRY OUT, "COULD" lead to a problem also.... The new "LONG LIFE" antifreeze (yellow) is good for several years. Only need 1 gallon and a gallon of clean water to fill and leave it in there FOREVER.. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 1:36pm
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Sounds like youv'e escaped major damage so far... I'll second the guys' notes on running no antifreeze, and draining it out. It was a common practice on big locomotive engines, if shutdown between October and May, to fully drain the engine of coolant, to prevent freeze damage... but they rarely shut down. Your Allis has seals on the cylinder sleeves, and when they dry out, they shrink. Leaving a 50/50 antifreeze in it, helps protect those O-rings and maintain the seal... so I recommend keeping the system full of 50/50. If you're shutting it down for any length of time, make up a slip-on cover for the stack. For flapper-tops, I use about a foot long piece of 4" SDR35 plastic drain pipe with a cap.... USUALLY it's big enough to totally cover the flapper. Spray some aluminized paint over the plastic (UV is it's worst enemy). Don't use a steel can- it'll rust through, and become a funnel. Aside note- if you're getting moisture into the intake path, and it accumulates in the oil-bath air-cleaner, and freezes in the wintertime, you'll have a devil of a time getting the engine started... until you disconnect the air cleaner from the carb... (don't ask me how I know)... ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Boss Man
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 3:14pm
| Engine is supposed to be brought up to temp and then let cool down. Retorque the head and recheck valve adjustment. Dont back the bolts off, just retorque. The bolts aren't stretch to yield like the new stuff. You can reuse them several times. Even if the stop leak works I'd still retorque. Thats standard procedure on the old stuff |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 3:52pm
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I've had a flapper on my B for years, but still throw a Folger's plastic coffee container over the flapper just for extra protection. Had to change a couple out over the years due to the UV rays, but as long as Jo Jo keeps drinking Folger's I'm in good shape for a exhaust stack cover! LOL!  Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 9:17pm
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Hi Steve followed your plan bur to busy and travel away to even start her up ..but will tomorrow sorry for such a late thanks but too tied up and just back home now All the best and gratitude ; Albert |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 9:21pm
| Hi Steve thanks for the concern and advice but to busy and travel away to even start her up .but will tomorrow sorry for such a late thanks but too tied up and just back home now All the best and gratitude ; Albert |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 9:23pm
| Bossman just the insight I needed if the sealer fails and thanks for the concern and advice but to busy and travel away to even start her up .but will tomorrow . Sorry for such a late thanks but too tied up and just back home now All the best and gratitude ; Albert |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 9:26pm
| Thank you Dave and hope I can uncross my fingers on this soon But if the sealer fails thanks for the concern and advice but too busy and travel away to even start her up .but will tomorrow . Sorry for such a late thanks but too tied up and just back home now All the best and gratitude ; Albert |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 9:13am
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Thanks Steve I drink folgers too ..lots of it my shed is filled with old cans with roofing nails , grass seed , small carbs . I lost my first flapper a few years back going under a pine bough ,,lucky it didn't hit a deer it would have dropped it looked for it for days LOL |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 9:22am
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Posted By: jvin248
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 12:22pm
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. 2L sodee-pop bottles have about the toughest durable plastic. Costs ten cents but I trim the top off and wiggle it over the flapper top when not using the tractor. Being taller it's less likely the wind can lift and blow it off. Those bottles hold around 40psi. .
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Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 7:55pm
This is my rainguard! Have been using it for 50 years. When not in use it stays in that cubby hole in front of fuel tank on WD45. So it is always with the tractor. I think I deserve 1st prize for this but I know Iām biased!!! šš
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Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 8:35pm
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Hi Ed clearly love your sweet Allis as I have mine ..after her first 10 faithful years under a tarp I moved her into the barn . After 20 I let her share the garage , and moved my fickle chevy out . Last year I took the couch and my wife;s lazyboy and stored them in the driveway pod and then moved old faithful Allis into the living room . She's , a 65 yo Italian beauty still stunningly beautiful If you dear helpful brothers on the forum spot her please let her know I moved Allis out from in front of the TV You're all great I ran her for 4 hours today after the re-torque and Bars sealer and I think it worked All THE BEST ALBERT |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2024 at 11:58am
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Ed you surely are disserving of some award, unless your tractor never leaves the shed. I always feel lucky if don't have to find a new exhaust cover every time I use a tractor anymore. I am now down to hobby farming, so maybe I could keep a flapper on top of a exhaust. But to many trees in my life to not get them ripped off if really used.
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Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2024 at 4:09pm
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Hi Steve my girls been on the bottle now for three days has had her head screwed down 2 lbs, tighter , run around those days for 2-3 hours up hills and bush wacking and thanks to your advice and the help of so many other generous forum members her oil is staying clear . As a note , if helpful, to others . After the first days run I let her cool down completely , the dip stick looked good ( thanked the Lord ) and took off the valve cover , ready to follow the advice of Bossman and the others ..RETOUQUE !!! my knees buckled when I saw streaks of cloudy oil , small but numerous ,on the inside of the cover near the push roods . Yet the dipstick oil was crystal clear . I kept working her and checking and the dip stayed happy. It then dawned on me that there must have been tiny amounts of the original cloudy oil clinging about in the block , that did not drain out after a week of the drain plug removed . Anyway ,again so many thanks for your guidance and patience .."WE " are all better now and all because of You; Albert and Allis |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2024 at 4:22pm
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Hopefully this will be a LONG TERM FIX and you wil be good for a few years... I had a truck engine that was BAD BAD for this and i had to "Redo" once every 18 months.. I have had minor leaks on a couple tractors and the FIX has been good for several years. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Albertfitch
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2024 at 5:25pm
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Thanks Ekjdm 14 Yes it was the pressure pump ..you would have laughed to see me even attempt to get it to 2 psi much less hold it for 3 seconds . The plunger seal was so bad it wobbled around in the cylinder and Advance auto out here in the wild north didn't have a loner. I followed a couple of the alternate approaches and in the end the oil is holding clear at last and the bullet dodged . Thank you for taking the time to help me ..your advice was the first step I would have taken All the best Albert |