AC TL-16 vs. Caterpillar 944
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=203180
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 11:38pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: AC TL-16 vs. Caterpillar 944
Posted By: orangeman
Subject: AC TL-16 vs. Caterpillar 944
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 8:25am
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Looking at old school rigid frame wheel loaders and have narrowed the field to the two choices above. Would like to hear the pros and cons of these machines. The chosen unit will work on topsoil and move 1,000 pound boulders to aid in building a stone wall. Appreciative of any insights! ~ Orangeman
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Replies:
Posted By: Lee Bradley
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 10:50am
| I ran a TL-12 that like the 16 has very far forward operator position this makes getting in and out more difficult but I prefer the visibility that provides. |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 11:13am
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Since you are looking at 60 year old machines with limited parts available. How many are expecting to come out of the woods if you put a wanted ad out? You have a better chance to find Cat parts as they are still in business. But have found early wheel loaders used a lot of parts that are special to wheel loaders so they are hard to find. So look long and hard before spending your money. Then it will still be a guess which has the most life left. Good luck picking a winner.
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Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 6:02pm
| Lee and Ray54 - Thanks for the input. In the case of the AC TL-16 I have a choice of three non running - one with a cab. So likely would take all three to make one. The Caterpillar 944A has a cab and ran recently but has a pony motor for starting. As I understand, the early 944A machines came with a pony motor but can be converted to DC electric start motor. The 944 machines carried on as a 944B and may have served as the design basis for the Caterpillar 950 wheel loader. I also understand that Caterpillar has few if any parts remaining for the pony motor. So likely, that the machine would need to be converted to a direct electric start. There is also a AC 840B with Cab that is running nearby and working but not sure I can convince the owner to sell at this time. Again, certainly appreciate the insights. |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2024 at 9:48am
| all the old cat parts are shrinking fast but thier are more of the cat stuff left than the rest put together |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2024 at 12:05pm
| Hudco: thank for those good insights. Is the Cat parts availability better because they sold more units or just the fact that Cat still survives and had dealers that along with the company had stockpiles of parts and perhaps deeper stronger resources that allowed them to remain in the present rough and tumbler heavy equipment market place? ~ Respectfully, ~ Orangeman |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2024 at 3:39pm
I think your logic is a little off... Likely all three are wore out in the same places...  ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
orangeman wrote:Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2024 at 6:26pm
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I had a old 55 Pettibone T-11 machine for several years , and with a Detroit 3-71 , fwd /rev box, 4 speed transmission , torque converter with Allison box and clutch . Problem with any straight frame machine and rear steering is they seldom track in any movement without a lot of steering positioning. You could load from a pile . move to dump into truck , and not get back to where you loaded without a lot of maneuvering If it was me I would look for any articulated machine . A 1 ton rock should be no problem for any machine with a 2 yard bucket as for power to lift . Roading a straight frame means going in reverse as with steer in back they wander all over . All the old loaders with cab forward and loader arms behind operator can be widow makers , as access to operator station is over or under loader booms . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2024 at 9:59pm
| i spent many hours on a 966a and when all the steering was at its best you had to rode it in reverse the one i run run had zero brakes , i was real good at shuttleing it from forward to nutral to reverse for braking that was 40 years ago |
Posted By: 7580/190XT
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2024 at 11:54pm
Well its a A/C forum so most like my self like A/C also. Have had my TL-12 since early 90s although it wasnt beat to fk and was maintained, some have gotten abused. Built pretty tuff but if operated not to brake um eeeh. I havnt had to use my Bridgeport or lathe on it as much as newer crap.
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Posted By: ecosse23
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2024 at 4:44pm
| That's a great shot of a TL-12 in action. More often than not you see photos of them painted in industrial yellow rather than Persian orange. |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2024 at 6:48am
| 7580/190XT - That's a darn nice photo of what a TL-12 can do! Still very useful after all these years and doing some reasonable chore work. I had a look at the Caterpillar the other day - couple of tires down, has a pretty heavy fiberglass cab on it with forks and about a 4 yard snow bucket. Certainly too big for the boulders I need to move around. All the gauges were in very nice shape. This unit must be a very early one as it has the pony motor along side the D330 in it. Next visit will be to evaluate the TL-16's. I see a winter project in the making ~ Orangeman |
Posted By: ChrisR123
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 2:14am
| How much are they worth now? I've got one in great shape that's running and it's a monster of a machine that I was interested in maybe selling |
Posted By: jvin248
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 9:10am
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. I'd vote for the caterpillar path, just for parts available. Doing a restoration just for a restoration is different than getting a machine working to complete a project. This channel does a lot of rescues, might even have some AC content. Tracks will give you more grip than wheels. https://youtu.be/9YJ3XBuQNdA" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/9YJ3XBuQNdA This channel did this loader and I think a second one. https://youtu.be/g0rxHx0-xEM?si=yazkbirddGguL0J2" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/g0rxHx0-xEM Both may reveal common issues you'll find. .
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Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2024 at 8:32pm
| JVIN248 - Right On regarding the parts support for the Cat 944 and given the numbers produced that is why the Caterpillar 944 is even in this discussion! Thanks for the link to the rescues - I like working machines that aren't parade queens. The whole idea is to have something that can handle the task, has a reasonable long design life and parts either used or new can be obtained so the unit can run again and do work on a medium size acreage. The rock wall is for privacy and to define a future planting boundary. With my age slowly advancing and having a few minor (slow me down) health issues - now resolved - the open station of the Caterpillar for access and egress from the cab is far better than a climb, slide in cockpit arrangement. I also see that the front mount loader arms provide a very nice safety advantage and the dimensions on the loader supports look to be very stout on the Cat as well. At this point am leaning toward the 944, maybe add the AC TL-16's if my machine shed can be arranged to hold them - I do like the AC TL-16's and 20's they certainly would be a good choice too - just a little more stepping and stretching to get into the cab. Thanks all for your valued insights ~ they are much appreciated. Hope you all have an excellent fall season! Respectfully ~ Orangeman |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2024 at 11:04am
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Many skid loaders now have the power and capacity of old loaders and also are easier to maneuver , move , and operate . My old Pettibone was replaced with a HD4 and that was replaced with a AC 715B which does more than either machine before could do . Sometime we get locked into tunnel vision of what will work best - then forget what the objective was to be . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2024 at 7:16am
| Coke - thanks for the insights on the skid steers as an option. I have a Melroe here available but the boulders that am planning to move would push it right to its design capacity so that won't be a choice. While I could easily rent a skid steer that has higher capacity I will need to use a county road then onto a State highway shoulder to move them to their location. That said, the road speed offered by the loader is better, the lift-carrying capacity of the bucket seems like its design is better suited to nestle the boulder in the bucket for transport. Have decided to put the AC 940 wheel loader into the list of machines to evaluate as it could easily do the job as well. Only issue with the early articulated units is the center pins are usually pretty tired and worn thus the rigid frame consideration. Am getting closer to a decision and am hoping to secure the unit this fall - do some maintenance and fluid changes for work to begin next spring. Thanks again for the insights they are appreciated. ~ Orangeman |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2024 at 9:06am
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https://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/ACFIAT940LDRINFO.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://www.tractorparts.com/PDFs/ACFIAT940LDRINFO.pdf AC 940 seems like a decent size machine to handle many jobs without being oversized .Pin wear on articulation can be a problem on any machine - in fact even straight frame machines and there steering geometry have problems I moved some large rocks that overhung the 2 1/2 yard bucket on my Pettibone around 2 miles down county road by here years back - 3 trips with things I should have put into dump truck but didn't want to damage box or keep taking tale gate on and off . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: 7580/190XT
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2024 at 9:55am
I turned dwn 8,500 for it last summer. A far cry from 2,500 i paid for it which included a mint W9 and the haul from no tree area Dakota 😊 perfect tin 😊 Its been a great machine ! It gets maintained. I purchased a new 749D which i like ALOT but for what i use the tl-12 for no skid steer comes close.. I was looking for a machine i could clean out large loathing sheds that the header height was lower and could load one of NH largest manure spreaders quick and easy and wet  e is heavey and didnt worry about flippin over, they lift anything you put in the bucket. I can drive it over to the gravel pit on the farm fast sometimes to fast lol and load into dump truck..or load round bales around all the fields pretty darn quick. Dont ever roll over funerals can be expensive for surviving family members. Not for the faint of heart or out of shape feller just to climb up get into it. I have a D8,and a D7 with a bucket i can load the TL in if i need something a bit bigger/beefier. I just dont use it like a dozer...dah. I wouldnt dig a basement with it...dont need to use it that way. Just restored a cletrac BGS that i ran yesterday for the first time in 45 years plus. TL,s are cool RARE for sure. For me i didnt get worked up about the parts. I make stuff. Engines are the the same in A/C mine is a gasser same as in 17. Hyd no sweat, wheel cylinder brakes parts no problem, I rebuild hyd cyl dwn to cutting knuckles off and new rams. Shuttle valve control leave the lower shield panels off for cooling in the summer, back on in the winter if need be. Eeeh there cool. Its a antique!!! Are there better machines sure...worst absoulelty. Does what i need it to do.
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