D14 Head Bolts
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=203164
Printed Date: 19 Sep 2024 at 1:57pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: D14 Head Bolts
Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Subject: D14 Head Bolts
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 8:53am
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I had head rebuilt on D14. Was cleaning up head bolts and saw some were beat up a bit. Was going to buy new ones but AGCO is too proud of them. Was thinking of just using Grade 8 bolts off the shelf if I can get lengths right. Some books called for 80 ft lb torque but seems like 60 to 65 is enough on a 7/16 -14. I don't think Allis would have set them up for that much stretch. My D14 service book did not really have a torque call out that I could find. I would appreciate any comments/ suggestions. Tractor probably will never run hard but engine seems to be be in good shape, just sat too long. ------------- 1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless |
Replies:
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 9:25am
| Maybe try ARP. They have bolts/studs for a lot of stuff. Some of the Allis head bolts were from ARP fasteners. |
Posted By: dfwallis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 9:39am
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Not just AGCO gouging, even the beat up used ones are $20-$40 per bolt. I saw one "kit" for the D14 that was priced at $451. I'm sure you can find a good grade 8 bolt set of the right lengths. ------------- 1952 CA13092 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 10:59am
| Check out your local Caterpillar dealership. All their bolts are gr 8. All flat washers are hardened and made for gr 8. Double stack washers if you need to (or can) to get exact length. |
Posted By: ekjdm14
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 11:34am
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If "generic" Grade 8 bolts are good enough for DrAllis to be OK with for a 149 then that makes me a little less sceptical of using them on my 125-liner'd 116 motor if the seller doesn't manage to send on the originals. One question (which could also be pertinent to the OP hence my posting here instead of a new thread) is whether shank length differences or even fully threaded bolts would create an issue? My gut feeling would be yes since it could affect the positive location of the head & allow movement causing problems with the gasket, but on the other hand (at least with the lower output 125) I'm curious if it would potentially work ok with fully threaded bolts if that was the only thing available? Cheers., Dan
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 11:44am
| I have never found a Grade 8 redi-bolt anywhere. If there is a such a thing, I don't know where to source it. |
Posted By: ekjdm14
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 12:03pm
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I'm getting confused I think, being in the UK I was thinking of *class* 8.8 as we're subjected to metric standards... You're probably correct *grade* 8 (class 10.9 being the metric equiv.) would all have a shank. All the same, do you think a longer thread/shorter shank would fly, or would the head likely "walk"? If I'm paying for something obviously I'd get as close to stock as possible but if I can dig something up in the shed or a scrapyard with less of a shank I may be tempted to try it...
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 12:40pm
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I think by the time you get a dozen bolts thru the gasket, the thread length will not make much difference... that being said, i think grade 8 bolts have a STANDARD thread length determined by the bolt length.. I think if you have a 4 inch long bolt, you will find the THREAD length is pretty standard between manufacturers.. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 12:46pm
im not saying you cant find something "different", or that everybody follows the SAE Standard... but there is a sheet.. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 1:26pm
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Thanks for replies. Is 60 or 65 ft-lbs appropriate? I plan to try and retorque when warm after startup and leak check. ------------- 1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 1:26pm
For clarification Caterpillar hardware is not the same as generic. But the world is always changing, and I have had "Made in China" on parts out of a Caterpillar parts box. For 50 years Cat bolts were as good as you could get. But they are not head bolts, and I don't know what that difference is. But since other with real life experience are Ok with it I would use them. From what I see with the antique Cat web site, I believe some Cat dealer raise the price of hardware to discourage "casual customers". I don't buy much Cat anymore but my account was still good last I tied. So I use Cat bolts as much as hardware store brands. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 1:58pm
| Retorque head bolts COLD after a couple hrs of running. |
Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2024 at 4:01pm
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yeah thanks. What torque do you use on these motors? The Grade 8 black bolts from Fastenal matched the factory bolts pretty close for body diameter. Threads are plenty long, in fact the original bolts appear to be cut down from standard lengths. Wrench flats are smaller. Lengths go every half inch in these sizes so I also got hardened washers to correct grip length. When I do two washers on the short bolts and one on the long bolts they line right up. Block tap depth seemed marginal even with stock bolts so I will try to run a tap down to make sure. May need a bottoming tap. ------------- 1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 5:26am
Amazon has them. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CCMFYM3P?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title" rel="nofollow - Amazon.com: 1/2-13 x 5 1/2 Coarse Thread Grade 8 Hex Tap (Full Thread) Bolt Alloy Steel Yellow Zinc Plated Pk 10 : Industrial & Scientific
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DrAllis wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 6:04am
| Redi-bolt to me is always 36 inches long, not 5 1/2 inches long. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 6:30am
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I guess everyone calls it different things. I had heard it called all-thread and threaded rod. I, personally, had never heard of it being called Redi-bolt. I think this is what you were looking for: https://www.grainger.com/category/fasteners/threaded-rods-studs/fully-threaded-rods-studs?searchQuery=grade+8+all+thread&sst=4&searchBar=true" rel="nofollow - Fully-Threaded Rods & Studs - Grainger Industrial Supply McMaster-Carr, Zoro or Fastenal might have something similar.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 6:43am
| There have been times over the years I could have utilized a grade 8 quality all-thread/redi-bolt because I couldn't find a regular gr 8 bolt long enough. Thanks. |
Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 8:04am
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Fastenal here in Indiana supports small orders and has a good selection available from their online catalog. I use them often for odd size fasteners or when I don't trust the hardware store stock. Usually the prices are amazingly competitive with minimal handling charge for store pickup. ------------- 1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 8:14am
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Doc, After all the advice you have given me and many, many others on here, I feel great that I could help you in some small way!
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Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 8:18am
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Rick of HopeIN, Our local Fastenal (and all the Fastenal stores in our area) won't even let customers in the door anymore. The are only working with their top commercial accounts from their store. The gal who used to be our Fastenal rep, when I was working, helps me out what she can, but I have to order it from Fastanal.com. I predict this will be the demise of Fastenal.
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Posted By: DonDittmar
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 8:58am
Mid State Bolt and Screw here in Michigan stocks it ------------- Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2024 at 12:15pm
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yes I have seen that. We are lucky in our area. You may try the on line store and see if they will direct ship to you but that may vary by region. ------------- 1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless |