185 steering problems
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=202291
Printed Date: 23 Nov 2024 at 5:23am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 185 steering problems
Posted By: 185turbo
Subject: 185 steering problems
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2024 at 8:55pm
185 with ac500 loader on it and the steering is hard to turn and slowly getting worse. Works a little better if your moving and or rpm is higher. I have grease the spindles plenty. I had another issue with the main hydraulics and took apart the hyd pump and resealed , didn’t see any issues with pump besides a few brittle flat seals as which were replaced. I also removed the steering relief valve under the steering wheel and checked the ball found a slight wear mark and also added a small shim and put back together and made no difference. Is worse with a bale on loader.
Any ideas on what could be going on ? Thanks
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Replies:
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2024 at 9:12pm
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Low tire pressure can make a big difference.
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Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2024 at 9:22pm
Checked that also they are aired up to 35-40 psi
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2024 at 9:55pm
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Need to pressure test the front pump section of the pump. 1600 psi is the spec I think.
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Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2024 at 10:00pm
Can I tee in a gauge somewhere like where line comes off pump and steer to stop to check pressure?
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2024 at 10:17pm
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Just dead head a gauge onto the end of one of the hoses at the steering ram. You can tee into the same area and turn the wheels clear hard one way with engine at varying speeds to see what's up. I think your pump has issues.
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Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2024 at 9:06am
I took off the front line on the cylinder and capped cylinder fitting and put gauge into the line. Started and ran had the pressure pretty much aligned with the engine rpm when steered hard 1000 psi @1000 rpm 1500 psi @1500 rpm and 2000 psi at 2000 rpm.
I also noticed that if the loader lifting the front end off the ground it still turns kind of hard as if the weight of tractor was on wheels
Does the pressure seem within spec ? Could we have a bad steering cylinder ?
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2024 at 12:57pm
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Since you said it still turns hard with the front wheels off the ground, I had that problem with a Massey Fergison industrial with a loader. Turned out dirt/grit had gotten in the spindle and the bushing it turned in. Dropped the spindle out cleaned then greased and added a felt washer on top of the bushing to help prevent dirt getting into bushing. Never had another steering problem with it.
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Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2024 at 3:27pm
I ended up unhooking the tire rods and turned the wheels easily by hand , so I think that part is fine
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Posted By: 8070nc
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2024 at 3:44pm
Is it possibe something is causing the steering valve to have a drag on it causing it to be hard to turn. Debris inside possibly from a old hose coming apart inside. Just trying tonthink outside the box since it doesnt sound like your problem is in the front end
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1984 80780
1957 D14
DES 300 with 25000 engine
616 tractor
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2024 at 8:41pm
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You'd better tee that gauge into one of the two hydraulic hoses going to the steering cylinder. The one and only tractor I ever had HARD steering had the steering orbitrol plugged internally with material that came from somewhere. If the spindles are free, you must have a blockage inside the steering control valve connected to the steering wheel. This is NOT something for a novice. If you disassemble and then reassemble that control valve wrong the steering wheel could spin like an airplane prop when the engine is started.
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Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2024 at 1:46pm
I deadheaded a gauge into the front line on the steering cylinder and got the pressures I posted above . Do those pressures seem right according to rpm?
I’m kinda leaning towards there being something wrong with the orbital motor also from how it’s acting and what everyone is saying.
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2024 at 5:06pm
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Maximum pressure should be 1600 psi. You have messed with the relief valve and need to remove the shims you added. Raise front wheels off the ground. A gauge teed into one hose will show turning pressure and return oil pressure when turning the steering wheel clockwise or ccwise. With a gauge teed into one of the two hoses going to the steering cylinder, when you turn one way and bottom out the steering swing and hold the steering wheel hard, the pressure should be 1600 psi (engine wide open). While you were making the turn the pressure should have been less than 500 psi until you hit the end of the stroke. Then, it should have spiked to 1600 while you held the steering wheel jammed up against the end of the stroke. When you return the steering back the opposite way the return oil pressure should be less than 100 psi because it is just returning oil back to sump. If this return oil pressure is much higher, your obitrol must be plugged with debris. If your turn swing is much higher than 500 psi during the turn, you have debris plugging the orbitrol. I have only seen this happen ONE TIME in 45+ years but plugged orbitrol internal passages is what it was.
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Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2024 at 3:13pm
Cleaning the steering priority valve on the hyd pump will fix the steering. My D21 used to be a 2 hander, now I can steer with 1 finger.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2024 at 3:49pm
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There isn't such a thing on a 180-185.
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Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2024 at 7:47pm
I haven’t took shim out of relief valve yet. I teed a gauge into the front steering line while turning wot the pressure is around 500 and when it hits the end of stroke it is 2000 psi , I know it should be 1600. When turning the opposite way the pressure is right around 100 psi . Still steers same as it was before.
What can I check now? Could the steering shaft from wheel to orbital motor be somehow seized?
Any ideas where to go next ? Thanks
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2024 at 8:23pm
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I suppose it could, but never seen that before. I'm done. Can't fix it when I cannot lay my hands on it. Be nice to have another tractor that doesn't have a problem to put the same gauge on and test the psi numbers. Maybe let it down on the ground and retest. I may be wrong in my estimation of what pressures should be. I may be high at 500 and 100 with no weight on the wheels.
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Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2024 at 8:53pm
Ok I’ll keep checking some things thanks for the help
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2024 at 9:22pm
It may be collapsed hose or hoses to the steering cylinder.
Deteriorate or colapsed interior of hose can cause pressures to be correct but flow to be restricted.
Very common issue on auto front brake hoses.
Only seen it once on a hydraulic hose...
Now i have seen a pinched hose restriction many times...
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The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate
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Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2024 at 9:58pm
I teed into a working 185 steer cylinder and had approximately 1100 psi at 1000 rpm at end of stroke where my tractor would only reach about 500 psi full throttle had 1500 psi at end of stroke.
I don’t think my pump has enough flow to support the steering. I’m thinking I need to go into pump and check it out
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2024 at 6:42am
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Your test is inconclusive. Test BOTH at full throttle. How many psi did it take for the "good" tractor to make a turn DURING the turn??? How much return pressure did the good tractor have when coming back the other way?? The speed with which you rotate the steering wheel must be the same between both tests. The loader tractor must have the loader on the ground with the tractor valve in FLOAT. Both tractors ideally should be on concrete for a fair comparison.
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Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2024 at 10:05am
Could the seal on the end of the rod in the steering cylinder be by-passing ?
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2024 at 10:25am
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The original complaint was "hard" steering, which means to me higher effort than it should be. The steering pump section is able to make 2000 psi of pressure when the steering is dead-headed. Normally, to me anyway, that would mean the pump is probably OK. That tractor won't steer easy at 700 RPM but by 1,000 RPM usually has enough GPM flow to make it easier. His complaint is high effort all the time, at any RPM, unless the description of the problem is wrong. An internal steer cylinder leak would make the steering wheel turn easy while the tires aren't wanting to turn. It would also wander badly down the road.
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Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2024 at 10:30am
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are any of the fittings on the orbitrol orffice fittings? may be plugged their
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2024 at 10:53am
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No. All hose/line connections aren't orificed. The internal steering control valve has many small passages inside of it.
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Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2024 at 10:59am
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Just a shot in the dark. Perhaps one of the hoses may have developed an internal flap causing a restriction of flow.
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Posted By: 8070nc
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2024 at 1:30pm
I believe a bad hose is a possibility. Ive seen that happe on rubber brake hoses
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1984 80780
1957 D14
DES 300 with 25000 engine
616 tractor
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2024 at 7:01pm
Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2024 at 9:22am
No not yet been busy and been getting by with it for now. trying to decide whether to go after the hyd pump or the steering hand pump first?
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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Posted By: 185turbo
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2024 at 2:13pm
Just noticed something today may be related. Was mowing and I turned while running the pto on the mower and used the brake a steered to the stop and tractor stopped … let off the brake and it took off could my pump be bad and when running pto hand clutch and steering to the stop it looses flow ?
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185 turbocharged w/ 500 loader , WD
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