Lets make a 7000 rowdy
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=200793
Printed Date: 01 Dec 2024 at 4:33am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Lets make a 7000 rowdy
Posted By: Wisconsin_Man
Subject: Lets make a 7000 rowdy
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2024 at 8:19pm
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How's it going you guys? I got a couple question in regards to a black belly 7000 I am looking at picking up in the somewhat near future. I just got a few questions I am looking to have answered. 1: How much power can I reliably push out of that 301? This one has been overhauled something like 200 hours ago, so I don't particularly want to blow it up, but at the same time it aint bagged out ya know. I'm ok with having to swap turbos, add intercoolers, or whatever else is needed to make some reliable power. I would like to get it to the 130 horse area but 150 would be awesome if I could get there (don't have my hopes up tho) 2: How much power can the rear end/transmission of the tractor handle? I guess the 7000 rear ends are smaller than something like a 7040? What is the weakest link in there? I don't particularly want to have to open up the rear end all the time, especially if 5 years down the road I go for a 5.9 swap. 3: If the rear end decides to pull a Kurt Kobain on me, how hard would it be to find a donor 7000 series tractor and throw the larger rear end in it? Is it possible or is it gonna be a nightmare? What specifically are the differences in the rear ends, as in something like just the differential or an entirely different transmission and rear end? I will presumptively address a few remarks I know I am going to get Why not just buy a bigger tractor? Because this deal is way too good to pass up, if you were offered it you would take it to. Also, iron is expensive man, sometimes you gotta work with what you got. If you turn it up your gonna break stuff! Yep, I understand that, that's why I want to know the limits of the equipment so I don't cross the line, but I have a hard time believing there isn't a little juice I could squeak out of it yet. What are you going to do with it? The occasional tractor pull, running a 13 foot hydraswing discbine, run a round baler, and if I can get 150 horse out of it, throw it on a big square baler. Probably plowing and dragging at some point as well.
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Replies:
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2024 at 9:05pm
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opinion: I would back the torque screw out and you will have about 115 HP + or - a couple. You can farm with it that way if you don't use all the hp all the time. More than that and you can't keep in cool in the summertime. Everything you mentioned ok EXCEPT the big square. Unless you have flat land, dry and take it easy a big square will rock the 7000 - it is too light. We sold a big square and saw it overheat a 180 hp 18,000# tractor when pushing the baler. IF you want to pull it - get a 7080 pump and have it worked with bigger injectors and lines. Takes about 2.5 hours to swap out. An intercooler off a 7020 or 145hp gleaner will help or water injection - swapping turbos and using both way is possible - some have done it here with different recommendations. The power train is no issue up to about 200 hp on the clutch - don't try shifting on the go using that power or slipping the clutch excessively. You will have to beef up the torque limiter over about 150 hp. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: Wisconsin_Man
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2024 at 9:31pm
| Tbran, this is very helpful information, thank you. I've seen threads on other discussion boards where people talk about putting an inline pump on the 301, so I might give that a try and see how it goes. A few guys in my area are running the big square balers with about 150 horse tractors like a Massey 1155 with success since it is fairly flat here, that's why I want to try the 7000 on the baler and see what she'll do. |
Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2024 at 10:15pm
| That 301 can have a intercooler setup from a 7020 put on it and fueled to the max with a bigger turbo will make a lot of horsepower. However it still has a old style 301 block unlike the intercooled hot rodded 649t that is also a 301 that the 7020 tractor uses, biggest difference is going to be the piston oil squirters to keep the pistons from melting. Anything consistently over 120 HP you're looking for trouble with a 45+ year old tractor |
Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2024 at 10:26pm
| My bad 649I the 7010 and 8010 tractors used the 649t |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 12:46am
| Black belly 7000 had piston cooling jets. The 7000 tractor is a 9400 pound 106 HP chassis, much lighter than an 1155 MF tractor. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 6:06am
| If you can find a 301 turbo-intercooled engine from an 1980 and newer L-2/L-3 Gleaner combine, you would have 145 flywheel HP engine turn-key. Tweak the fuel injection pump +20 HP and you would have 165 flywheel HP. This then translates into 152 PTO HP. There you go !!! |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 7:00am
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it always amazes me that people will by something not suited to their needs because "it was a good deal". Then spend a small fortune farmerizing it into something like what they should have brought in the first place, which would have been more economical in the long run. Overpowering a smaller lighter tractor, then weighting it down to do the job a bigger tractor was built for is a recipe for disaster. ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: Wisconsin_Man
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 7:46am
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DrAllis, that's a very interesting route a guy could go. Do you happen to know off the top of your head what the differences are that those combine engines can make that kind of power from stock? Is the only major difference running more fuel and an intercooler? Reason I ask is from the research I've done making the 150 horse shouldn't be all that hard, I just don't want the engine coming undone after I get there. Thanks for the help
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 8:48am
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For a 150hp 7000, just have the pump properly rebuilt and set for that, none of the other things you mentioned would even be needed, but you cannot use it as a 150hp tractor, use it as a 106hp tractor, just faster. An S200 turbo would help move more air through it though, but nothing is a direct bolt on turbo upgrade. I set up fuel and air systems like this all the time. Just to answer another thing I saw mentioned, the 7000 drivetrain is nothing like a 7010 and up, so if you splat the original 7000 drivetrain(which you wont) you can't just bolt in a 7010 and up rear end or trans. Completely different animals. A 7000 is the last revision of the old 190 drivetrain, which started in the D19 actually. After many revisions I feel they finally perfected that drivetrain for the 7000 model tractor. Good luck! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 10:53am
| The 301 cube 7000 tractor engine was approx 120 flywheel HP at 2,200 RPM. The 7010-8010 engines were approx 130 flywheel HP at 2,300 RPM. They basically increased the fuel delivery, rated RPM's and installed a higher capacity engine oil cooler. The 145 flywheel HP 7020-L2/L3 engine got a beefed up engine block, even more fuel delivery (may have included larger injectors but i don't remember for sure), an intercooler (to keep exhaust temps in an acceptable range) and a slightly higher capacity turbocharger. Now, if you take a 145 HP 301 cube engine and think it can run as many hrs of service life as a 145 HP 426 engine, it can't. The size of connecting rod bearings and main bearings to a degree are limited by the bore size of the engine. Larger bearings last longer. The larger displacement engine will make the same HP at LOWER exhaust temps, so valves and seats and turbo's will last longer too, compared to the smaller displacement engine. |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 3:35pm
x2. Keep looking and you will be able to find a tractor better suited to your needs for a decent price. Is it really a good deal if you have to spend a couple of thousand to "upgrade" it and then spend more to repair it when it breaks?? ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
PaulB wrote:Posted By: Wisconsin_Man
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 4:21pm
| DSeries4, it absolutely is cheaper to go this route for the deal I was offered. I could sink 5 or 6 grand into it and still be under a nice larger tractor |
Posted By: Wisconsin_Man
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 4:32pm
| injpumpEd, as far as the turbo goes, I am not scared of having to fabricate a setup for a larger charger. In fact I just finished up throwing a 53 mil garret on my JD 2440 for the pulling season. I have noticed right now summit racing has some great deals on Borg turbos, and I was thinking about ordering an s366 ahead of time for this tractor. Up by me there are only two injection pump shops, and both of them I have had grievances with in the past, so if you or anyone else has a recommendation of another one somewhere near Wisconsin or better yet in Wisconsin, I wouldn't be opposed to sending it in the mail. Thank you for the clarification on the transmission and rear end. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 5:52pm
| Turbocharger sizing on a farm tractor is kind of an art. I'm thinking an S-366 may be a little too large for 301 cubic inches to perform well to keep your "Power range" between 1800 RPM on up to full throttle of 2500 RPM. The factory turbo would lug down to 1700 RPM before going under at about 1600 RPM. Bigger turbo's move more air for sure, but if you have to keep the engine above 2000 or 2100 RPM to get anything done, that ain't a farm tractor any more. |
Posted By: youngorange2000
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2024 at 11:43pm
| So your still thinking you're going to be ahead spending several thousand dollars on hopping up a 7000 to try and do a 7060 or 8050's job and still be ahead? It's still going to be a 7000 at the end of the day. If you want go ahead and flatten the leaf springs in the injection pump and throw 7080 injectors in it and have at'er but it's still a dang'ol 7000. If I were you buy the unbelievable deal of a 7000 doctor it up by fixing leaks and minor imperfections and sell or trade it for something more suitable. It took me 3 years to find a 8050 that fit the bill. There out there. On both days I bought my 7020 and my 8050 I didn't think I would be buying a tractor today when I woke up. |
Posted By: Mike Plotner
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 9:18am
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I have a 7000, run it as what it is, and you'll be happy enough. I pull a 12 row corn planter, TMR mixer, disk, 13ft New Holland 7450 discbine, I've chopped corn with it pulling a New Holland 790 and bagged with it too. They have guts, just use it as a 115 horse tractor and not a 150 and you'll be pretty happy to not be wrenching on it all the time ------------- 2001 Gleaner R42, 1978 7060, 1977 7000, 1966 190 XT, 1966 D-17 Series IV and 1952 WD and more keep my farm running! |
Posted By: jvin248
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2024 at 7:20pm
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. Look up engine control systems. Years ago a place in Wisconsin did four stroke motorcycle engines for SAE college competitions. They did any vehicle, I can imagine there are more around these days like that. I could not believe the Dyno output of that motor when they got it back. This is a guy who put a lawn mower carb on his V8. This is one video of a series he did on it, so check them for details. The core solution making it work is a controller box he has tucked in the wiper well, https://youtu.be/FwhMz2kR4pw?si=aeyQx6XVni8oA8yn" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/FwhMz2kR4pw?si=aeyQx6XVni8oA8yn This is a guy who put a HF Predator engine in his seized up B. From memory it's the 6hp mower engine replacing the stock 18hp? https://youtu.be/TW7iv0VhiUI?si=VtLwh7QKCjGNsgtK" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/TW7iv0VhiUI?si=VtLwh7QKCjGNsgtK So get the tractor and start tinkering. I'd not put it in tractor pulls, but it will likely do a lot of intense work for you. .
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