Rim deformation during removal?
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=198973
Printed Date: 28 Jun 2024 at 1:35am
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Topic: Rim deformation during removal?
Posted By: resurrection20
Subject: Rim deformation during removal?
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2023 at 11:42pm
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Hi all, I have a 1946 Model B. Today the valve stem snapped off and one of my rear tires went totally flat. I lost most of the calcium chloride solution. But that's not my biggest problem. I went to take the rim off the wheel (I guess this is how you say it) and the way mine is that there are two four lugs. Two are bolted in from the back and the rim slips into place on them and the other two bolt in from the front and lock it in place. I started to take one of the ones from the front off with an impact wrench and the rim sort of started to jump/slide around and looked egg-shaped at one point. I didn't know what to do, so I kept impacting it off and it bounced around a lot more and looked egg-shaped one more time before coming off and looking fine... Is this normal? Bear in mind I've never removed a wheel that didn't have studs and lugnuts, lol. Thanks... — Probably Finally Starting to Lose It For Reals This Time
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Replies:
Posted By: im4racin
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2023 at 11:59pm
| Does the head of the bolt you were loosening have a plus stamped into it? |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2023 at 4:52am
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Sounds like you are describing eccentric bolts. Now that you have them off, look at them closely, remind you of a cam shaft? The reason things went egg shaped is probably due to the deteriorated rim deforming as it was stretched and loosened, with each rotation of the bolt. sounds like you need a new rim... https://www.steinertractor.com/ACS281-Cam-Lock-Bolt?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%3A%20%28ROI%29%20Smart%20Shopping%20-%20Low%20Margin&utm_id=17561055818&utm_content=&utm_term=&mkwid=|pcrid||pkw||pmt||slid||pdv|c|product|ACS281|pgrid||cpgnid|17561055818|ptaid||adtext||&gad_source=2&gclid=Cj0KCQiAv8SsBhC7ARIsALIkVT2sGP7J-psVozG1hs4RYAZR1AzAGgZrO65SarMiNAy7SPc32DtV0XIaAp33EALw_wcB" rel="nofollow - https://www.steinertractor.com/ACS281-Cam-Lock-Bolt?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PMax%3A%20%28ROI%29%20Smart%20Shopping%20-%20Low%20Margin&utm_id=17561055818&utm_content=&utm_term=&mkwid=|pcrid||pkw||pmt||slid||pdv|c|product|ACS281|pgrid||cpgnid|17561055818|ptaid||adtext||&gad_source=2&gclid=Cj0KCQiAv8SsBhC7ARIsALIkVT2sGP7J-psVozG1hs4RYAZR1AzAGgZrO65SarMiNAy7SPc32DtV0XIaAp33EALw_wcB ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2023 at 1:56pm
| Yes, they have a sort of cross on them. What's that mean? |
Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2023 at 2:05pm
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Yes, that's them. I'm guessing there's some special method for taking them out without warping the rim or damaging them? Like maybe taking the nuts off the back and popping them through? The rim looks totally fine now. It is rusting and the valve stem has been leaking since before I bought it any time the tractor was parked with it at the bottom. That being said, the rim on the other side does look newer...or maybe just less rusted. I got into this mess because I tried to air the tire up and the valve stem snapped off. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2023 at 4:21pm
Basically, they take up any play between the wheel and the center. To remove, take a wrench, and hand turn till it gets tight, one way, then turn it the other way till it gets tight. Sweet spot is half way between those 2 spots. Hold it there and unscrew the nut, from behind. Easiest way is to leave 'em alone, and remove the wheel center from the axle... Also, I think the longest leg of the cross marks where the cam is highest, IIRR. ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2023 at 4:45pm
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Wire brush all the rust off and test fit the bolts into the Clamps... You will see that TWO of the bolts have cam lobes on them and when they TURN you push OUT on the clamp to wedge against the rim.... YOu turn and HOLD the bolt in place, then TIGHTEN the nuts... Put one of the standard clamps on the tractor HUB at 12 o'clock..... roll the rim over and set it OVER the clamp so it is hanging on the hub..... Put the two LOBE SHAPE clamps at 3 o'clock and 6 o'clock... and the other STANDARD bolt at 9 o'clock You can turn the two CAM BOLTS at 3 and 6 o'clock so they push OUT and tighten on the rim... then HOLD them and tighten the nuts... as Dave said, the CROSS on the bolt head shows you the HIGH spot of the CAM.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: plummerscarin
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2023 at 4:51pm
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Two bolts on each side are eccentric style bolts. Dave is correct in that the longer leg of the cross indicates the high point of the eccentric. This longer leg points to the rim when tight. I needed two sockets to remove and install them whereas the other two were locked in to the clamps needing only one socket for removing and installing Steve beat me to it. He types faster
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Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2024 at 6:47pm
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Ah, well, you live and you learn, I guess. And then you buy a new rim? Neither the owners nor service manual says anything about any of this. My next question is...if the rim still looks okay after being traumatized by an impact...would you run on it? The eccentric bolt threads are totally flattened.   
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Posted By: im4racin
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2024 at 6:56pm
| Should be. They are pretty springy in that respect |
Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2024 at 11:07am
Oh really, wow, that's good news! The other side has already been replaced with a newer hoop style rim and so I figured I'd probably better just do that, too. If one went bad, the other one might be, too. That's assuming it rusted out or something. Or maybe they just hit a rock.
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im4racin wrote:Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 12:52pm
My situation:  
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Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 12:53pm
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My other, good wheel: 
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 1:05pm
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I have a couple tractors with ORIGINAL rims and a couple with the new style LOOP rims... The LOOPS sure make things easier to install / remove / and keep tight ... Never have to worry about one slipping.. Seldom happens, but possible on the OLD design. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 1:13pm
These just arrive yesterday. I have been running a beat up old pair of 9.5 inch tires on decent Original 8 inch rims for many years... Finally decided to Upgrade... New are 11.2 inch and rims are 9 inch.. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 1:40pm
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Nice! Where did you get everything? And what bolts do you need to upgrade to a hoop? I'm still debating what to do about trying to smooth out the bolt threads with a Dremel and getting a new valve stem and using the same rim. VS. a new rim and bolts. This tractor will probably get less than 10 hours on it per year. And never go faster than first gear. And only mow. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 4:07pm
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I bought the tires at AMAZON for $281. + tax ... dont see the post now, but they had the same deal at Wal Mart.. Free Shipping. I bought the rims on e-bay.. They are all over the map price wise.. Cheapest 9 x 24 was $125. and they go up to $300. WHY ? I dont know.... Some give the DIAMETER of the bolt circle and some do not.. Make sure you know what your gettting.. I bought the CHEAPEST pair for $125. each + tax.. free shipping... They say the bolt diameter is 20 1/4 inch ... i measured about 20 inches on my hubs.. Figured i would do a little grinding or use 1/2 inch bolts instead of 5/8 ..... Some vendors list "rims for ALLIS" and then give 20-3/8 diameter bolt circle.... cant be.... ?? I was looking at 10 inch rims also, but cheapest was about $160.   ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 4:16pm
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he has 8 inch rims also... same 20 1/4 bolt pattern... https://www.ebay.com/itm/125966192032?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1SpZV5ui_RYaNPjAGgvtdkQ55&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=125966192032&targetid=1587268787897&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1016367&poi=&campaignid=19894961968&mkgroupid=148855406073&rlsatarget=aud-1412318123216:pla-1587268787897&abcId=9307911&merchantid=101510446&gclid=CjwKCAiA7t6sBhAiEiwAsaieYilAn-VpuJbcsLyt8R-wXq4yVVrsMN5EnaFCwwW3ZNJgF9eOFXbt3xoC7TEQAvD_BwE" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/125966192032 ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 4:45pm
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You mentioned there's CC in the wheels. Better inspect those rims real good. CC eats the rims up making them weak and dangerous especially at the bead. I see the one rim is pretty rusty. Make sure the inside of the wheel where the tube goes is nice and smooth so you don't ruin a tube with the rusty, and scale inside. Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 4:47pm
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Nice set of wheels and sneakers there Stevo. I gotta' do the same to my B. The ole girl needs new sneakers out back... Those loop rims do look a lot easier. I got the early rims on my B. Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 5:23pm
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I know farmall rims will bolt up to an AC D10 axle, so should work on a CA... HTH...
------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 7:28pm
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i did see a few rims that said "20 inch spacing" that "should fit" without any mods... Problem is they were $150. - $160. each and when you click on it, they want $60. to SHIP.... I figured to save $80. EACH RIM , i could figure out how to make the $125. rims fit.... probably take me a good 20 minutes to figure it out !
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2024 at 11:22am
Good tip. I was just going to have a tire store do it. I don't know for sure what's in it. It's kind of a gross milky color. And the rim is rusty, so I assumed it was Calcium Chloride. When you say dangerous...do you mean like a critical failure collapsing rim? Or just a bad bead seal and the tire comes off? |
Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2024 at 11:28am
| Oh I almost forgot, how many gallons or pounds of ballast do you personally put in for a '46 B with a No. 5 mower? Les Schwab has this other ballast they use that isn't corrosive, supposedly. |
Posted By: ORBill
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2024 at 11:48am
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Resurrection PM sent. I have everything you need. Bill
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Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2024 at 9:20pm
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Most popular Non corrosive options are Beet Juice (RimGuard) or Propylene Glycol (Pink RV antifreeze). Beet Juice is heavier, non toxic, but more expensive. Propylene Glycol is also non-toxic, not quite as heavy, and available in your local auto, big box, etc., stores. Yeah, it's pink. For mowing, it's not 'how much weight', it's HOW LOW can you get the weight. Why? Mowing generally doesn't require 'high tractive effort'... meaning, you're not PULLING a plow through the dirt... (If you are, your mower deck is set too low) Usually, ballast for mowing, is all about getting the center of gravity lowest, so you have stability on uneven surfaces. This is done by filling the tires to about the halfway HEIGHT. IF you add additional ballast to the tractor, put it right on the centerline, as LOW as you can get it, without fouling up your mower setup. Getting the CG low and centered is how you make it least likely to tip. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2024 at 2:47pm
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When I first dragged my B out of the woods and got it home, it had CC in both wheels. One wheel was so bad, the lip of the rim where the tire beads was rotting through! It was tough to see at first because your rusty rim reminded me of both of my rusty, rotted rims. That's why I referred to them as possible being dangerous. I wound up tossing both rims and picked up a couple nice clean used ones from one of the GOTO's one year. That was back in 2000. Whew! Time flys! It's time to do a semi-resto on the ole' B again and get her cleaned up and repainted... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: Kip-Utah
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2024 at 6:34pm
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I recently went through the same deal on my C. I used 10” wide 4-loop rims and new 11.2 eight-ply tires. These tires were less money than any 4 or 6 ply tires that I could find. I bolted my rims on with 3/4” carriage bolts. It was a real chore getting all four bolts lined up. If you use 5/8” carriage bolts you will probably cuss a lot less🫢 Kip ------------- HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!! |
Posted By: Kip-Utah
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2024 at 6:42pm
| My old tires were fully CaCl loaded. I had an extra set of C wheel centers off a parts tractor and I just doubled them up when I bolted on the new 4-loop rims. They make great wheel weights and get me within 100 lbs. of the 3000 lb. weight limit for the class that I pull this tractor in. Kip |
Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 1:37pm
Okay, that's good to know. The manual says to fill tires to 3/4, so I was just kind of going off of that. Not really needing traction, I guess it makes sense to have it lower/lighter. I was looking at R/V antifreeze last night and wondering. If people want to judge for having pink fluids around. When you say centerline, I'm imagining right at the start of the bell housing. If I wanted to release liquid out of my tires, could I just take the air-water valve off and roll the tire to where the valve stem is halfway up and let gravity do the rest? Rocking it now and again to let air in to speed things up. I'm also wondering for mowing...the manual says that to get a wider stance, you can flip both front and rear rims on the axle, swapping the rears to keep the treads facing the right way. Good idea?
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Posted By: resurrection20
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 1:41pm
A kindly soul from the forum may have just sold us a new rim to match the other. Then you don't have to worry!
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Posted By: JimD
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2024 at 1:43pm
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I carry both the looped and the original style 4 bump rims. I have them in import like those posted above and US made. I would be happy to answer any questions: 877-378-6543 http://www.oktractor.com/osc/ac-b-rims-wheels-and-tires" rel="nofollow - https://www.oktractor.com/osc/ac-b-rims-wheels-and-tires ------------- Owner of http://www.OKtractor.com" rel="nofollow - OKtractor.com PM for an instant response on parts. Open M-F 9-6 Central. We have new and used parts. 877-378-6543 |