Non Specific Brand Draft Control
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=196782
Printed Date: 25 Sep 2024 at 11:19am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Non Specific Brand Draft Control
Posted By: Tbone95
Subject: Non Specific Brand Draft Control
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 8:12pm
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Obviously the trend in tractor building is to put it simply, horsepower to weight is on the rise, or easier to relate to, weight to horsepower is down. Tractors don’t have “ass” anymore. Horsepower developed by higher revs, turbo boost pressure, governors with a wide span of fuel delivery….my simplified take. Anyway, with this in mind, the horsepower threshold where you get bigger tractor features like closed center hydraulics and lower link sensing for draft control is higher. So the question. If you’re pulling a semi mounted plow with a top link sensing tractor, you’re not going to get a response, right? Is there a hitch of some sort that can be used to help this? Not huge power, like 75-90 Hp ish. |
Replies:
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 8:24pm
| Correct. That is why true "draft sensing" is superior to Ford/Ferguson upper link style. I'm not aware of anything anyone did to make an upper link system work with a semi-mounted plow. Even a MF 1100-1130 were upper link sensing ?? |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 8:59pm
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I never seen a semi mount plow that used the top link. A fully mounted plow yes, but not a semi mount. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2023 at 10:29pm
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We had a hitch that was mounted to a 4 bottom Allis Semi mount. We used it in conjunction with a MM 670 top link sensing tractor. It didn't work very well. Dad sold the 670. Bought an XT190  ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 7:13am
Me neither, that’s why I asked!  Like an adapter so to speak. Something that would trigger a lift…. I really had nothing specific in mind. |
Lars(wi) wrote:Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 7:25am
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This is an interesting dilemma. When I plow I encounter about every condition you can imagine. From the easiest going to rock hard red clay to steep hills ( of rock hard clay!) alfalfa, mud….I’ve owned a couple tractors that really aren’t all that big (70 and 77 Hp), that if ballasted pull 4-16’s pretty good. The 77 horse is a MFWD, and it pulls it great. Yeah those clay hills can put it on its knees, but for the most part I manage. Anyway, these 2 tractors are both closed center hydraulic and lower link sensing. The newer one is a 1990 model year. Anything I look at now in 85 HP range give or take is open center, top link. If you aren’t careful, you’ll find that Hp tractor in a 3 cylinder, often 2000 pounds or more lighter than it should be. Hard to deal with. |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 8:07am
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Wow!! 4-16 behind a 77hp tractor? Where I grew up, the minimum for 4-16’s would be 90+ hp, that would all the tractor could handle. I’m impressed. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: IBWD MIke
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 8:13am
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The Oliver plows, semi-mount, have a bracket on the pullbar for the top-link. That is there for top-link draft sensing. I would have had no idea what that was for, and cut it off one of mine because it was in the way of proper adjustment. Found a video on youtube from "That Oliver Guy" talking about them and the different features. It's possible other brands had something similar. For my money, I like the Allis system. Have not had enough opportunity to plow with my Red tractors to have a good opinion of their draft sensing. Hopefully will get some seat time this fall with the 856!
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 8:19am
With MFWD though? It makes a huge difference On the other hand, I have spun the rim in the bead twice on a clay hill. So it’s not all a bed of roses. Next guys will be chiming in with their D17’s pulling 4. In a way I really hate talking about plowing! 
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 8:23am
Interesting. It shouldn’t really matter what color anything is for this arrangement to my way of thinking. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 12:10pm
| all about location....around here my WD45 with M&W's pulls 4-16s in 2nd gear very well at 8in depth. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2023 at 4:38pm
Location within a location. I’ve got spots so hard at times you’re lucky if the plow is in the ground. I should have said, I get along good with 4-16’s semi mounted “for the most part “. Of course when the plow does nothing but skid across the ground it doesn’t take much power at all!
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Posted By: Joe(OH)
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2023 at 7:53am
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I did a little research on this and it sounds like Massey used a 3 point quick hitch with their semi mounted plows in order to have upper link sensing. ------------- Life is simpler when you plow around the stump. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2023 at 8:46am
| So I wonder, did this quick hitch have the plow pull pins below the tractors draft arm balls?? so the top link would be getting forward pressure against it ?? I guess that should work. I saw someone make an MF post about the Super 90 tractor had draft arm sensing and then the "new" 1100-1130 went backwards with top link sensing. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2023 at 11:42am
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Hmmm So weird in a way. It just seems to me that any tractor in the 75-80 + HO range is a tractor a guy would want the option of a semi mount plow. So many benefits given up just because you don’t have draft sensing. I was thinking how it would work too doc, and like you say the plow pins would seem to have to be lower to create the forward force. Apparently it’s been addressed somewhat out there from time to time by what a few of these guys are saying. I’ll have to try and find a super smart plow guy around here. |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2023 at 5:08pm
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Tbone95 and all who are interested Here is the top sensing hitch ! Simple hitch honestly. This hitch came with our Allis plows back in the 70's.... Plows are long gone but Dad saved the hitch. Wish we would have kept the plow draw bar too as it acomidated the large holes in this hitch but it went with the plows..  The large holes in this hitch whet over the plow hitch and a standard 3rd point went to the usual place on the tractor which senced feedback pressure. THE tractor we haD at the time was a MM670. I belive Dad bought Allis Plows with the MM670 which would make sence why the plows had that top sensing hitch. Shortly before we sold the MM670 remember dad cussing and cranking on some screw on the back of the tractor and FINALLY the draft control started working. Then we bought an XT 190 and this hitch was not necessary. Enjoy the photos.     ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2023 at 5:13pm
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Always being Crafty ! Dad made this top link sensing hitch multi functional. Reece Reciever. Bale Speer receiver. and Log hauling hooks. Appreciate you guys inquiring about it cause I honestly forgot we had it. 30 years away from the farm and I am digging out treasures every day. ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: Macon Rounds
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 7:30am
 ------------- The Allis "D" Series Tractors, Gravely Walk behind Tractors, Cowboy Action Shooting !!!!!!! And Checkmate |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 8:11am
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Macon you need to send that thing to me so I can try it out. Better yet I’ll meet you halfway and buy you dinner. Like Doc said, the pull point of the plow is below the connection to the draft arms of the tractor so that it rocks the top link forward. Other than the specific attachment to the plow, I can’t see how the color of the plow or tractor would matter. |
Posted By: 1963D17
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 10:01pm
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John Deere 2 cylinder 20/30 series also needed a top link as they to used the top link for draft. Deere liked to copy and they must have thought Massey/Ford were the ones to imitate. Look where they put the engine on their combines later on. Allis's snap tach was the most accurate of its time. IH's fast hitch was ok until all its moving parts got so sloppy the sensing rod couldn't send an accurate reading to the tel a depth valve.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2023 at 12:32am
| Never ran a Farmall on a mounted/semi mounted plow, but it always looked to me all that hitch underneath was a good way to drag and get stuck ?? |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2023 at 10:50am
Copying, lol, well it’s a three point hitch but really only 2 choices! |