Allis 160 3 pt stuck up.
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=195928
Printed Date: 22 Nov 2024 at 5:57pm
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Topic: Allis 160 3 pt stuck up.
Posted By: RJCC
Subject: Allis 160 3 pt stuck up.
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2023 at 3:41pm
| Hello, I've got a allis 160 that the 3 pt hitch is stuck up on. I've been messing with it for a couple days on and off with no luck. I'm pretty sure it has a stuck spool in the lift control valve under the seat. I'm currently in the process of trying to get that valve off so I can make sure everything is sliding correctly. I've removed the bolts from the large front plate but its seem to be connected to the linkages and won't pull away from the tractor. So my big question is how do you get the control valve removed if the plate can't be removed? Any help is greatly appreciated, I've been through the forums and lots of great information but nothing pertaining to removal of the valve. Thanks in advance RJ |
Replies:
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2023 at 4:56pm
| did you try standing on it while the lever is pushed ahead? the arms won't go down on their own like other tractors do. |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2023 at 5:20pm
| I tried to push it down with a case 680 backhoe loader bucket (not full force but enough). No movement. At one point I pulled the top cap off of the control valve and it dropped immediately (by itself no additional weight) and all the oil from the cylinder went on the floor. So I know the cylinder isn't rusted. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2023 at 7:45pm
|
What cylinder? The lift cylinder is in the transmission housing. Oh you mean it came out the control valve? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2023 at 7:54pm
|
My lift arms go down on their own on my 160. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2023 at 7:55pm
| Correct. I pulled the vertical spool out of the lowering valve which is part of the control valve and it poured out. Still hoping someone can explain how to remove 5he whole control valve. The manual I have found says remove front plate remove hydraulic line the remove cap screws from the back of the control valve to remove from the plate. But the plate can't be pulled from the housing with all the linkages on there. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2023 at 8:04pm
|
Possibly air in the system, it can be a issue getting them bled. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2023 at 8:06pm
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It may be a day or two until I can get to my manual. I will take a look. Have not had to do that to mine. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2023 at 9:31pm
| Any help is appreciated. Or if I can't get the whole valve off any ideas how to make sure the lowering valve is moving correctly? |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2023 at 3:52pm
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My factory manual explains how the system works but does not explain removal of the sensing valve. I find it quite odd mine does not explain how to remove it. Can you do me a favor and take a picture of what you are trying to get to? Sometimes we describe parts by the wrong name, at least I do. I just wanna verify that I’m looking at the correct parts that you are referring to. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2023 at 4:46pm
 Thats the lift arm control valve. My hunch is the lowering spool is stuck |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2023 at 6:04pm
| So after more investigation I think the flow control valve is stuck. I removed the big plug from the front of the control valve and the spacer that was behind it but if I'm reading the diagram correctly there is a spool in there with a spring behind it but I can't get it out. Thoughts? |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2023 at 6:37pm
|
I have the Allis manual (Form SM-11) and an ITC manual (AC-25). The Allis manual is quiet about removing the valve. The ITC manual pretty much says do what you are doing. Remove seat, disconnect high pressure supply, remove the 8 bolts, pull the plate with valve away. Careful not to lose a bunch of sealing o-rings. Valve is back bolted on. As near as I can see there is a plunger item, #7 coming out the back of the valve, this is the only physical contact between the valve assembly and the internal linkage parts. Linkage parts are shown in full horror on page 57 of the Agco parts book. If some if this linkage is bolted up to the head plate, well, oh no. It went together, should come apart. Might have to remove the entire top cover. There is mention of a pendulum lever. I can't figure it out, but sounds like trouble. Have you been looking at the parts book? There were two valves. You have the earlier. The later one is supposed to be a replacement for yours. I think the top of the valve is removable, 4 cap screws. Could allow easier access to the lowering and lifting spools. PB blaster, clean it up maybe it will work. The response control, that knurled knob with pointer, has been known to pop right out spewing oil. So between the two valve designs, then 2 more updates to the new valve, there might be 4 different response control valve-spool. Where is the Allis mechanic who remembers the issues on this? At a rest home? I tangled with this, and lost, years ago trying to help a farmer. That tractor still runs great-as a draw-bar only machine. |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2023 at 7:13pm
|
So since I couldn't get the spool out. I tapped in out of curiosity and fired it up. It has reversed the problem the 3 point hitch doesn't go up now. (yes I confirmed oil flow to the valve) As far a literature I've only got what seems to be a very basic manual I found online. I'm willing to bet what I'm calling the stuck "spool" is actually the plunger you mentioned and since its stuck/ stiff to move that's why the large cover doesn't just come off like the manual says it should. Does this sound logical? I only tapped it it with a 8oz brass hammer and punch so its not crazy stuck. what linkage is this plunger tied to? Could I tap it from under the cover on the rear of the tractor? Maybe a couple of hammer cycles back and forth will get things moving again. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2023 at 9:53pm
|
I’m looking at a drawing, appears to be looking down on the lift arm control valve. To the left of the response control valve is the lift valve, to the left of that is the lowering valve. So, only one can only operate at a time. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2023 at 4:09pm
|
So I finally got the valve off. Playing with the height of the lift arms and the control levera I was able to get the play to move forward about 3/4" . At that point I was able to pull the pin that holds the linkage to the back of the plate. I disassembled the valve definitely had a stick spool the one under the largest plug. Put everything back together and now back to the beginning it won't go down. |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2023 at 8:50pm
| Another update. Bought the agco repair manual and it does a fine job of explaining the logic behind the control valve. Only problem is I know the small part (sensing valve moves freely) but I didn't realize the larger part is also supposed to move (sensing spool) and since it didn't fall out when cleaning I'm going to assume its stuck. So hopefully I can get it moving without full disassembly. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2023 at 9:16pm
|
Thanks for keeping us updated. Pictures of disassembly would be most helpful. I may have this issue one day, and this would be most helpful. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2023 at 9:50pm
|
Success!!! I think don't want to fire it up tonight. But I was able to pull sensing spool out from the front. If your hitch is stuck up chain it up so it can't fall by itself other wise as soon as you start pulling it apart it'll push all the oil out when you pull the top off. Here's what I did. I removed the knob and the plug/threaded bushing along with the springs that are in there. Also pulled the top off otherwise the lowering spool (the one on the top towards the front) could keep it from coming out. I tapped the spool in and it was hesitant to move but went a 1/16" then I attempted to get it to come out. The trick I used to get the spool out was to use a 5/16 bolt about 3" long with some vice grips biting on at 90*. While pulling on the vice grips it would bind the bolt up in the center of the spool then a small prybar to lever it out. As soon as I got a 1/16" I tapped it back in and tried again. Finally got spool out a light touch with some 1200grit sand paper flush it all out from the top with some oil. Then slid it back in and out a few times to make sure its sliding smoothly. I put it back together removed my temporary chain pushed the position control forward and IT LOWERED all by itself. and stopped when I brought It back up. So I think its good. I'll give it whirl in the a.m. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2023 at 10:20pm
|
Good to hear, I hope that resolved the issue. Was it rusty inside like moisture contamination?. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 3:56pm
|
Robert, did it resolve your issue? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: RJCC
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 4:09pm
|
Yes 3 pt is working. For anybody In the future working on a 160 Buy the agco manual. Not sure what I found online for free but it was no where as informative. Also thank for your help. It's a good feeling knowing that at least one person out there knows what your trying to do. 
|
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2023 at 6:26pm
|
Glad it fixed it. Hopefully the info you provided will help someone in the future. I doubt there are too many working 160’s out there so information is tough to get. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Tswarner67
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2024 at 2:10pm
| Just picked one up and having. The exact same issue. This is super helpful going to buy the manual and follow your post hopefully get the 3 pt to function. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2024 at 12:15pm
|
It is a good thread and really should be in the knowledge section for quick access. I am going to see if I can print it out tonight. I think the cause for this type issue is non use of the 3 point or a tractor has been sitting a while. Need to keep things lubricated even if it’s only to operate them occasionally up and down. I use the 3 pt on my 160 quite often and don’t have any issues. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Tswarner67
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2024 at 1:46pm
| Yeah absolutely ! I think that’s the case with mine, it sat for 8 years or so but I don’t think the previous owner really ever used the 3 pt. Hopefully this weekend I can get it going and keep it lubed up . Excited to see how it pulls compared to my ford 860 |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2024 at 9:28pm
|
A friend of mine completely restored his 860. Pretty neat tractor, he did a beautiful job but it sees very little work anymore now that it’s nice and pretty. The 160 has good power for a 40hp tractor, sips fuel, and a good tractor for small jobs like raking and tedding hay. Turns short due to its short wheel base. I really like mine. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |