Actually they make excellent sense as they are usually only needed for a few hours at a time to help balance out the power demand.  Rather then building another gas turbine

generator that is going to be idling most of the time so that it can spin up quickly when need, the battery can add the extra juice.  They are being installed all over the world to save money and have a more reliable grid.  Not all of them are for solar or wind systems, some are connected to gas, coal or hydro plants.  They are also handy for "end of the line" power systems where the grid isn't capable to handle the demand for short periods.  I think Tesla is gonna make a whole lot more money with the power systems then the car division will in the future.

didn't one of those megapacks selfignite last year ??

can we assume they're LITHIUM batteries ?? (not listed in that link..)

The idea that BATTERIES can 'run the World' is ,well, absurd.

Someone figures you can use EXCESS energy to charge up the batteries.Hmm ,where's this EXCESS coming from ?? NOT during the day(most work, need ac ) NOT during hte night(recharge of EVs, laundry).

If you're using these batteries ( for an hour...maybe,if lucky) what happens when they get used up ? BLACKOUT ! Common sense says it'd be better use of,yeah TAXPAYER coins, to beef up the existing electrical power plants, add more nukes, etc. Far better return for your money,safer, more reliable too

 How long does these batteries last before they need replaced?

 I know that if you went solar and put in a 6 volt battery packs the they had to be replaced every 8 to 10 years. Im agine what that cost.

burning Tesla took 20,000 galloas of drinking water over 8 hrs to FINALLY put the fire out...AND took 3-4 firetrucks + crews.

 fortunately that was in the city where htey have LOTS of water and firemen...

I'd be really,really 'upset' if the volunteers here had to WASTE resources like that on ONE car.

This looks interesting:

https://ambri.com/" rel="nofollow - https://ambri.com/

cept NO actual installations/customers that I can see on their webpage just graphics.....

no prices, no chart of power vs time, etc. (the 'numbers' )

DiyDave wrote: Question is still whether it economically viable without govt subsidies...

So are you trying to say that all these wind turbines that you and I are paying 70 cents on the dollar for that have a 20 year life expectancy and a 38 year payback wouldn't get built without our funding.

Seems odd, sounds like what the guy I met with from GE that wanted to build towers on my ground said, who would have thought.

I should add he also told me that they had attorneys that made prairie chickens go away.

I'm personally in favor of the Tesla quick charge stations like they have around me.  They have 4 or 5 stalls then off to the side there are nice wood fenced in squares and inside the fence is big CAT engines running generators making the electricity to charge the cars.  It's a win win situation for everyone, the engine manufactures get to build engines, the oil companies sell them fuel, the generator companies build generators, the car companies build cars, and the electric motor companies build motors!!!  Sure the carbon footprint might possibly be 3X more than the present gas motor model, but it's a small price to pay when everyone gets to put their hand in the cookie jar.

Don't believe me, go to google maps street view and look behind applebees in Hays KS(west side) some lady setting in her Tesla and you can see the generator in the fence.

you didn't factor in

the carbon footprint to BUILD those generators,

the carbon footprint to haul diesel TO those generators

the carbon footprint for the service vehicles to repair/service those generators,

the carbon footprint to harvest,mill,haul,install the wooden fences around those generators,.....

probably a few more footprints...while they may be small, they ALL add up

Trawler II wrote: Have to wonder about this, maybe it's a backup generator to service customers in the event of a power outage. Pretty hard to believe the thing runs full time, especially next to a convenience store. Noise would sure be noticeable.

Actually, it starts up when you plug in.  They want to make a profit selling electricity and believe me the monthly demand charges from the local "Customer owned cooperative" for the peak that would be drawn out if all the charges had a car hooked up would axe their profits.  That's not a joke, for instance I have irrigation wells that are 15HP electric and pull a max of 28 amps and I can't tell you what that means other than my monthly charge just to have a meter at my well and using no electricity will be over $180 per well and that's based on the maximum amount of pull at anytime during the year(start up for a well).  There's people here that know about this far more than me but if say 4 cars hook up and recharge in 30 min I can't possible imagine that amount of demand they will use.  I'm thinking thousands of dollars a month just to have the meter there and then having to be competitive on price of electricity.  I am also told same situation at Wal-Mart in Hays(right on I70) but I don't know I don't go there.  If you look at the picture on google maps you can see the rain cap wide open.

Chevy Volt has owned it for a year and never bought gas. It works for her. A far as an electric vehicle working for everyone they haven't got there yet. More than likely never will. For a lot of people an electric may be fine, the market will determine that.

Actually I don't know but I assume they are running on NG.  So that's environmentally friendly and CAT still builds motors.  See I'm telling you it's win win.   and trust me if I had NG available my irrigation wells would be on it and I wouldn't think twice about buying the motors.  Nothing says NG like paying close to $50/acre per year just to have electricity at your well so when your ready to spend $40/acre watering your crops for a year you have power.   Sadly the "locally owned cooperative" also has the NG, go figure.  All shoved through in the late 90's been a hurting since

I agree, sure there's a place but a lot of changes need be made before we're ready here and I guarantee, although the service is excellent here what they charge for electric is not.  Problem is IMO there was basically Great Bend and Garden City Ks that generated rural power, both off of coal.  My area electric co. Midwest out of Hays bought out REA in Great Bend and shutdown the power plant in favor of just buying all of it.  Now they get raked at peak demand and have no way of offsetting the cost so they pass it along in "demand charges"  Funny thing is if I was a county further west under Sunflower out of Garden City those same wells would cost about $15/month for the meter(service) instead of $180.  That electricity is going to get high when/if everyone in the city drives a EV and not only will the driver pay but those that don't as well.

Running an internal combustion engine to generate electricity, to charge a chemical storage battery array, which is then used to drive electric motors, is a 3-stage net loss of efficiency.

You're getting about 16% thermodynamic efficiency going from combustion to mechanical, about 73% from mechanical to electric, about 84% storing it as a chemical battery, then 73% turning it from electrical back into mechanical.

Let's quantify that by using an arbitrary number of 255,000btu of heat energy... that's 100hp of thermal input... which yields 18hp of mechanical output, that translates to 13.4 kw/hr, but you're losing 27% for battery charging which yields 9.8kwhr... Storing it chemically generates heat, knocks it down to 8.232kw/hr  convert it back and you'll get 7.15 mechanical, but only 73% makes it to the wheels for 6.009kw, or 8.05 hp/hr.

That's staggering losses, when one could just accept the first 18% by going from internal combustion to mechanical. 

And internal combustion of liquid fuels is a much higher energy-storage medium per weight and volume, and it's recharge is dramatically faster, substantially safer, and exhibits NO transfer loss (gravity will do it!).

Those who think it makes sense, understand neither physics, nor math.

Hmmmm, wonder which one they will label "Settled Science."

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yGDkiUAwxRs" rel="nofollow - Lithium is dangerous - YouTube

Powder Lithium

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke2mU5IxcEU" rel="nofollow - Lithium: Adverse Effects and Interactions – Pharmacology | Lecturio Nursing - YouTube

Fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWq-Mq1Uqpw&t=77s" rel="nofollow - Why Tesla, GM And Other EV Companies Have A Fire Problem - YouTube