HD4 thrown track
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=186651
Printed Date: 30 Nov 2024 at 6:58pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HD4 thrown track
Posted By: Daelric
Subject: HD4 thrown track
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 7:57pm
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Ugh! It's only been a couple days since I finally fixed my coolant issue that put my machine out of commission for a couple months, and now this! I was making a hard turn in place (one clutch pulled and brake applied) and about halfway through the turn I hear a loud clunk and stop turning. A quick look over the side and sure enough, the left side track popped off!!  I tried for a good couple hours, pushing and pulling, using a long pry bar, looking up videos on YouTube, trying to use a chain on the boom of the hoe to pull the track up and over... Nothing doing. I cannot for the life of me get any of the teeth into any part of the track with enough purchase to try to just drive it back on. I'm feeling very discouraged. I could use some advice on the best way to go about getting this thing back on. Thankfully since I have the backhoe on it, I have the boom as well as the side stabilizers at my disposal for lifting. |
Replies:
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 9:51pm
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First thing is to back off the track adjuster |
Posted By: Gary(OR)
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 11:48pm
| Track is on (positioned) backwards, btw. Not sure what the strategy is in doing that, but have seen it done a few times... |
Posted By: kinghunter
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 12:54am
| I’ve always had better luck getting it on the front. Take it off front idler and put it on the back and walk it back over front idler. I’ve never gotten one to climb over sprocket. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 4:31am
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If it were me, I'd remove the track from the machine and as mentioned, back the track adjuster off all the way. Use a bar, come a long, or another tractor and chain to pull the track adjuster or idler assy. towards the back of the tractor. If this doesn't move back easily I'd make the needed repair while it was apart. Get the track chain back around the drive sprocket, then the idler, and finally bring the tension back up on the track. I don't know your tractor series at all but are the red circles with yellow arrows cracks, or breaks? Something doesn't look right to me from this vantage point:  |
Posted By: Jim.ME
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 8:00am
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Good info so far. Getting track back on it pretty much "bull" work. Sometimes you can get them to flip back on, sometimes not. If you haven't, you might want to look at the condition of the flanges of the track rollers while you have it up. If the roller flanges are bad/gone it will affect chain tracking to the sprocket and idler. You also need to maintain proper track tension. Single bar grouser pads can be harder on things when run on loaders and backhoes, than the three bar pads generally found on such machines. And I would agree with the track is on wrong, grouser end of the pad should hit the ground first during forward travel.
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Posted By: Daelric
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 10:03am
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Ok thanks for the advice all. I'm going to be heading down soon to try again. I'm wondering about the tracks being backwards though. Obviously the machine would've come with the tracks on "proper", so what would the reason be for someone to take them off and put them on backwards? What potential benefit would that have given? Or is it more likely that they were taken off for some other reason and they didn't notice they put them back on backwards? I should note that the area where I'm doing all my work is a part of my property that I call "down below"... My house and outbuildings are up on an old creek bank, and to get "down below" I have to go down a fairly steep hill. The backhoe on my machine makes the entire unit so back-heavy that when I'm finished and want to go back up to park it in the shed, I can't get up the hill going forward... I have to back it up the hill (so all the weight of the backhoe is forward going up the hill, instead of behind). So with that in mind maybe it would be for the best to keep the tracks on backwards? Thoughts? |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 10:06am
Get the weight off the track so you can slide the track around with bars and come a longs. Never a fun job but your not in the creek or deep mud  looks like good ground to hold blocks up. Always happens to me on some steep almost cliff in very soft fluff. You can drive right up with the tools, use truck to anchors the come along. Or get another tractor to pull on the track.Just because you can do a spin turn ,
does not make it a thing to do. If you are lesioning you can hear the track climbing the rollers. Time to stop and back straight up and it will settle back on. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 10:36am
| We had a guy around here with a dozer set up like yours and his tracks were purposely mounted backwards as yours are from normal convention. He did a lot of septic fields, tiling, and basement excavations before excavators took most of that type work. I was line boring his backhoe portion, (John Deere 450) and asked about the tracks and I remember him telling me it made no difference in using the loader bucket, but a lot of difference when backing up an incline. I never equated that to anything in particular but probably because of the weight hanging out back, but it is what I was told. |
Posted By: Daelric
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 7:47am
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Alright. So, a buddy came over to give me a hand yesterday and we tried our best but unfortunately we couldn't manage to get the track back on. We were able to lift the machine with the backhoe stabilizer and get the track fully on the sprocket, but we just couldn't get it over the front idler. The main reason for our lack of success was that we couldn't bring the front idler back at all. The track adjustment screw is old and rusty and might as well be welded at this point. We figured the only path towards success involves freeing up the screw somehow so that we can retract the front idler, so we spent the remainder of our day taking things apart in order to remove it.   So now I'm looking for tips and tricks to free up this screw. We already tried penetrating oil, heat from a torch, and whole lot of torquing on it, but no luck so far. |
Posted By: Lee Bradley
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 8:55am
| First you need to get the lock plate bolts out. |
Posted By: Daelric
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 8:58am
| Sorry, they were fully out when we were trying... That's why one looks half out. I put them back on when we quit for the day. When the bolts were out, the plate wouldn't budge. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 9:06am
| One guy, one torch, one set of hands won't get you very far on this type of job. |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 9:20am
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It doesn't look cooked enough to me. Need more heat. Is the yoke threaded through or is it a blind hole?
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Posted By: Daelric
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 9:27am
Looks to me like the shaft hole is threaded just about half way through.
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Posted By: Daelric
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 9:29am
| What I don't know is whether or not the lock plate is threaded onto the screw as well? Also what's the point of the rubber seal between the lock plate and the yoke? |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 9:34am
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Fires thing is that collar with bolts through it needs to be loosened . Take both bolts out of it and turn it separate from the yoke - then work on getting shaft to turn in yoke . Heat and a lot of it might be needed - in like almost red hot . Have seen tracks ran backwards to get other side of bushing in contact with sprocket teeth on worn tracks - it also puts pin wear on opposite side from normal wearing . HD4 with a hoe mounted is putting all the weight on the rear sprocket and not much on track rollers - in fact I ended up breaking axles on the one i had - also had to have both rear cases worked on as outboard bearing for axle wore into case and had to have it machined and cup welded into case to hold new bearing cup Leaking rear seals was another problem so went to speedy sleve on axle and different rear seal to accommodate it . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: pinball
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 1:18pm
| you said you had a backhoe on it. do you know if the machine was built for it or was it added on. i have put my track back on a few times but if you dont back your adjustment back first you probably will damage some thing else first before you get it on if you do. you might want to find a person close to you that has messed with those allis machines and have him look at the red area towards the back you have pictured, that might get serious. some parts are getting expensive and hard to find. ive had mine fora dozen years or more. hope you have the manual. there really helpful. ive got an extra manual. good luck. hope you get it figured out. |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 1:24pm
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Remove the cap screws from the adjuster. Get a fire going in your wood stove or firepit and make sure you get a nice bed of hot coals. Put the threaded portion on the coals and heat till dull red. Proceed quickly to a vat of waste oil and immerse past the threads. Make sure you use protection to avoid spattering of oil near your face and body. This method will cause a violent reaction but will free the adjuster for repair. I know for a fact that this method will work! Good Luck ~ Orangeman
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Posted By: Daelric
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 6:03pm
I forgot to mention, those red circles aren't anything broken or cracked. They're just natural gaps and seams in the plates and frame.
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Codger wrote:Posted By: Daelric
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 6:07pm
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SUCCESS! A buddy came over to give me a hand again, and with his help we were able to jury-rig a "vise" of sorts to hold the yoke on the floor of my shop (just built up a frame of 2x4s around it screwed down into the floor joists for strength). With the yoke 100% immobilized, we were able to use penetrating oil and heat from a tiger torch, and broke the rust-weld of the locking plate by tapping it slowly with a hammer. Once that was free to move, we were able to use a pipe wrench with a long pipe extension over the handle for leverage, and we were able to break the main shaft screw's rust-weld as well. We worked it all up and down with copious amounts of oil to get things mobile again, then took it down to where the HD4 was stuck. With the shaft fully retracted, getting the track back on was a piece of cake! She's back in action. As always, thanks again for all the tips and advice. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 6:46pm
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Now that you have it freed up, make sure to coat the threads with never sieze! Also, with the track adjusted, how much thread is left on the screw? No threads left, and the track on backwards is a good indicator that the UC is wore out! Don't let anyone talk you into cutting a link out, it will only accelerate sprocket wear. From what I see in the first picture, that front idler looks pretty thin... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: Daelric
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 8:44pm
Definitely part of the plan!
There's actually lots of thread left. As you can see in the one photo where I'm looking down the hole in the yoke, the threaded rod is still fully within the threads in the yoke (what I mean is that the end of the threaded rod protrudes past the threads in the yoke and into the unthreaded part of the yoke when it's adjusted for proper tension). |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2022 at 3:01am
| i lost the track on my HD5, i suspended it in the air, put the track on the rear cog, backed off the tenstioner and was able to roll the track back on the front pulley. readjusted the tenstioner (spelling) and away i went again. good luck |