Increacing horsepower on wd 45
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Topic: Increacing horsepower on wd 45
Posted By: gold642
Subject: Increacing horsepower on wd 45
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 1:15pm
| I have a gas wd 45 which i want to out plow a Minn moline ub diesel. I have a set of 3 -14 bottoms Allis mounted plows. My nephew has the ub and needs to be out plowed on plow day. He is pulling a set of 2-14 non mounted Oliver plows. I know the cubic inches is the same for the wd 45 170 175 and d17. What is the best ways to increase the 45 engine to the performance of the 170. I want the changes to be non obvious so turbos are out of the question. Thanks Ted |
Replies:
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 1:38pm
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my first question would be what do you mean by 'out plow'? Are talking ground speed? Not spinning out? Fuel consumption? Acres per hour? I am not familer with the MM UB , my first suggestion would be to use as close of the same plow as possible. If speed is all your looking for try to up the throttle on your tractor, set the plow to run shallow. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 1:47pm
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You can take the center bottom off your plow and move the rear bottom up to the center position to make it a 2-14 plow. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 3:12pm
|
All you have to do is add about 80 cubic inches to the engine, the 5 inch stroke will help. Then add about 1/2 ton of weight to the 45 and you will be close as long as everything is balanced out right. Stock Minnie Moes would walk all over anything out there in the tractor pulls back in the 60's. Since he weighs more than you and is only pulling 2 bottoms, to even things out weight and horsepower wise you should have a 1 bottom 16 inch plow. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: KY
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 4:00pm
| snap coupler set up on a stock 45 has no problems pulling 3 14s around here in 3rd gear. |
Posted By: ALinIL
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 4:11pm
| You should be OK as you are. You need a 2-14 mtd plow and add 500 lbs to rear wheels. If both are stock you have more HP that the UB. I have a 45 with 2-14's and can go (2)3.75 and (3)5 mph. You need to get the plow adjusted properly. I usually plow 8" deep. So make sure he is plowing at same depth. - AL |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 5:54pm
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Here's another way to out plow him. Mark off 2 sections of field being the same length and width with similar soil types . Now go plow and see who gets done first. You need a third party that knows what plowing is about for an impartial judge. If he plows at a proper speed to do a good job and you run in second gear he can't out plow you with a 2 bottom plow. Al, the UB has 283.7 cubic inches and rated at 46HP(tested ?),weighed 6000. The WD45 had 226 cubic inches and claimed 39 HP(tested 43)and weighed at 4000 give or take. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Burgie
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 6:22pm
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Put a 1800 governor spring in it. ------------- "Burgie" |
Posted By: Allis Fields
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 6:26pm
| Put a Barny taylor cam in it. He told me he sells alot of them to the plow days drivers. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 6:28pm
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If you're up for modifying the engine, a set of 170 pistons from AGCO are like 8:1 compression. The OE WD45 is some where around 6.75:1. I was browsing my copy of the D17 parts manual and it lists D17LP pistons at 8.25:1. That would be another choice if they're still available. Use a 170 cam and carb and you should easily up the HP. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: OrangeFever
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 7:32pm
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Brian if you change to a 170 cam dont you have to change the oil pump and whatelse??? And this Barny Taylor man whats a camshaft cost and how to contact him??? |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 7:41pm
|
ML Pankey is the guy to ask about getting in touch with him. All I know is they are custom grinds. Berry Cam Service in MN is another place to try for a custom cam. Far as I know, you don't have to change the oil pump. There was another thread a day or 2 ago that you can change your bypass oil filtering system to a full flow with a few modifications. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: acd17toy
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 7:50pm
| why not just set and use the traction booster system on your WD45. most stock WD45's will play with a 3 bottom plow in most any type of ground. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 8:00am
|
17toy, he's wanting to "Out Plow" a MM UB. The UB had more HP and weighed 2000 lbs more than a 45 and the UB is pulling a 2 bottom plow. It's like apples and oranges. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: bigfish_Oh
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 8:09am
you could let me be the judge..... my Dad said the judges wore these(before my time) ------------- 1941 WC sat for 29 years,started & dynoed 27 h.p. 1957 WD45 Grandpa bought new,factory p.s.,added wfe 1951 WD, factory p.s. 1960 D14 HnMk IV BkHoe 4 sale 2014 HD Tri Glide 2009 GMC CC SLT Dually |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 8:49am
|
Make him plow with a 3x14 like you and you should have no problem out plowing him. I don't care that he has a few more ponies or a ton more weight. He will spin too much to beat you. Heard of and seen many time of 45's out plowing bigger tractors. Back in their day the dealers really liked to demo them til the competition quit showing up as I was told by the old AC mechanics I used to work with. By the late 60's you couldn't get the competition to show up at all to plow and be timed with a stop watch. Things switched to large demos of just showing how their outfits worked and not so much as a head to head competition. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: bigfish_Oh
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 9:05am
|
Dad tells about Grandpa's 560(4-14) and the neighbors 730(4-14) and D17(3 bottom) in the same field(when new) I always ask him, how many weights were on the D17, tires loaded? The 17 was always the first to leave field when wet. I have to assume it was never heavy enough or set up correct. As it got slippery he remembers that thumping coming up behind him, then he had to quit, the 730 was slower but still plowed when traction was needed. My other Grandpa sent home the JD dealer with his new 3020 4010? when my 45 plowed what it wouldn't. The dealer was after him for weeks to let him show it, he finally said if he could plow this field better than the 45 he would buy it. He knew it would not be set up right and it was a tough field. ------------- 1941 WC sat for 29 years,started & dynoed 27 h.p. 1957 WD45 Grandpa bought new,factory p.s.,added wfe 1951 WD, factory p.s. 1960 D14 HnMk IV BkHoe 4 sale 2014 HD Tri Glide 2009 GMC CC SLT Dually |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 4:09pm
|
A UB moline weghed 6050 lbs was on 13/38 rubber and had 46 pto hp at 283 ci . you get the 13/38 tires and 283 ci weight up to 6000+ lbs and you will out plow a ub. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: richneu
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 4:28pm
|
Interesting confrontation or plowing contest. A contest would normally be who would plow x amount of acres the fastest, no matter what size plows you used, otherwise how would you judge it. Several years ago in Europe a 225hp Massey Ferguson pulling 13 plows in the back and 4 plows in the front plowed about 640 acres in 24hrs. Many larger tractors were there from many manufacturers and could not even come close, they were fueling on the go and moving very fast when the going was easy. The variable speed transmission kept the tractor at optimum pulling power. I would not count out a WD-45 with loaded tires, maybe extra wheel weight and the mounted plow. Yes a newer governor spring could help from a D17 or 170 I believe. It would give faster speeds and power from lower gears. |
Posted By: bryan/silex
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 4:35pm
| all you need to do is get a set of 2 bottom 14" plows and set the depth as deep as it will go and you will out plow him, I do it all the time with my 45 it will be faster and plow deeper than most guys do. |
Posted By: richneu
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 5:15pm
| The mounted versus unmounted/trailed plow can easily translate to a difference of tractor weight 1500-2000lbs. The old Ford N's selling point was a mounted draft controlled plow and they could keep up to a Farmall H that was heavier by 1500-2000 lbs. Plowing is a kin to tractor pulling, balancing the weight control means a lot. Our TO-20 Furguson could pull a mounted 2-16 with no wheel slip in clover loam ground and it did not have any weight added. |
Posted By: gold642
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 6:00pm
| Thanks for all your ideas. The contest is acres per hour at 6 inches plow depth. I own the land so I can pick the field. I have clay and sandy soil. What do I want? I like the idea of the 2 bottom on the wd 45 as I really want to lap him in the field. I have a 2-14 allis plow from my wd so that is no problem. I am not limited by a budget . If I need to put 2 or 3 thousand in the engine I am good with it. Therfore rebuilding the 45 into a 170 is no problem if the parts fit. I have read the d17 and 170 motors use different bearings. I don't know if there is a difference in the heads. Is the compression difference changed by the pistons only like in the super m's and h's or is there a difference in the heads.I read the carberator on a wd 45 is 1 inch while a 170 and d17 is 1 and 1/8 inches bore. Where do I get the power cam at? Any one have an address. Remember unlike tractor pulling I need to be able to do this for hours and not look modified. I was planning to liquid load the front and rear tires. If I need to I'll put a front loader on it. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 6:13pm
|
they are some suttle differences in a true wd 45 head and a true d17 head mainly plug hole depth . I think you can make 85 to 90 hp out of a 240 to 260 ci and not be radicle or any components outside that would be noticable . move the cross arm hole up 1 inch use a 175 spring lighten the wieights up some add a gov . bypass when need a little more rs compression and massage the head and use a bigger carb . different valve to help head flow. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: Gary in da UP
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 6:28pm
| Get some farmall H connecting rods, etc, Lord ,here we go again.......... Got to win ,money is no object? IF your wd45 has a good number on the dyno now, good rubber, loaded tires and a few added wheelweights and a properly set up plow you are gonna smoke him in acres per hour. 3-14's in 3rd gear with a traction booster is all you need . Insist that he pull 3-14's and have at it. My .$.02 |
Posted By: gold642
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 7:31pm
| mlpankey, Can I use liners and pistons from a 170 in my wd45. How about gaskets? Are the bearings different? What would you use there. I can take the head to a speed shop and tell they to do the best to enlarge the valves and do the head so they flow better. I will order the 175 governor spring. I can order a 170 carburetor. I can contact berry cam to grind a cam. Any ideas here? Ted |
Posted By: gold642
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 7:42pm
| Gary, He is going to demand he uses his 2-14 Oliver plow. I have always said Allis made some of the best tractors made. I know he has the governor spring and pump cranked up . However he never rebuilt the motor. The rpm and additional fuel will help him. I know he has a real advantage in weight and horsepower. However I believe the mounted plows will expose his traction weakness. Besides, I would hate to have to use my 1932 Allis L crawler to defeat him. Ted |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 8:30pm
|
If he didn't rebuild and build up the engine then turning the fuel up doesn't do much and can actually hurt him pretty easily. If your current engine is healthy I wouldn't bother with an overhaul and even if you do overhaul I wouldn't bother spending a lot to hop it up. Your tractors transmission would appreciate it. You'd be better off finding a good scouring 3x14 or 3x16 plow and do a little practice plowing and make sure it is set up right and that your traction booster is in working order. That will get you further ahead than anything. A 80 HP WD45 will embarrass you as you drag it's locked up rear end out of the field. It's not the same as pulling for a minute down a slippery track. Get a good plow and get it set up and make sure he has the same size plow. No matter how well he is set up you'll out do him. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: BillyL(SC)
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 9:55pm
| I am confused. If the contest is acres per hour at 6 in depth let him run a 2-14. If he runs as fast as he can go and stay on the seat and you pull a 3-14 in third gear you are still turning 50% more dirt with each pass. He will have to make 3 passes to every 2 you make to turn the same amount of dirt. So he should lose more time turning than you will as well. Now if it were just a drag race it would be a different story. I would think the UB would pull a 2-14 6 inches deep at full speed road gear in concrete if he wanted to. But that's just my opinion. Something you might want to check is how much fuel each tractor uses. I bet there will be a big difference.Billy |
Posted By: bigfish_Oh
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 11:49pm
I am pretty sure It was plowing in a circle also ------------- 1941 WC sat for 29 years,started & dynoed 27 h.p. 1957 WD45 Grandpa bought new,factory p.s.,added wfe 1951 WD, factory p.s. 1960 D14 HnMk IV BkHoe 4 sale 2014 HD Tri Glide 2009 GMC CC SLT Dually |
richneu wrote:Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 7:50am
|
Garry its true I believe there is never to much hp. Yes the 170 ,175 sleeves and pistons will fit . pistons and sleeves have no bearings to be a issue. I wasnt thinking of using a 8 inch rod in the motor as garry thought I was thinking about . I was thinking alot on details in the head as valves and valve train . smoother radius turns toward the intake valve etc. I wouldnt get wild with the exhaust valve and port on a small bore size engine . ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: d17brown
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 8:02am
| i have a set of 170 sleeve and pistons for sale |
Posted By: D17JIM
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 8:13am
| My Dad and his neighbor used to farm together and both had WD45's. Dad pulled a 4-14" in 2nd gear and Homer pulled 3-14" in third. Homer argued that he could plow more acres/ day than Dad. So they were plowing in a 1/4 mile field and they worked on different sides. That afternoon they counted rounds each made and figured the furrow's turned. For each hour they plowed Dad had 2 more furrows turned. He also burned less fuel. I remember Homer was REALLY surprised. Larger equipment even at a slower speed is hard to catch up to. |
Posted By: mlpankey
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 8:27am
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I would also hide a ford tfi module in the tool box so I could send 14 volts to a hot coil with out having to use a ballast resistor to save the points. ------------- people if they don't already know it you can't tell them. quote yogi berra |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2010 at 6:24pm
| Seems like a lot of work just to prove a point, but here's what I would do if it was my tractor and my money. Start with the chassis.....rear tires in very good condition( preferably NOT Good-Years) and 14.9 x 28 size full of fluid.....a couple extra wheel weights on the left land wheel.........you have a loader??? great....leave it on and locked at a height about three feet off the ground..........make damn sure the "Traction Booster" works and you actually know how to use it. The engine with just a set of AGCO OEM D17 pistons and sleeves and a good valve job (nothing fancy at all) and a D17 governor spring will provide way more than enough power to work with your already prepared chassis. You will need to convert to 12 volts to get it started. A reground crankshaft with new mains/rod bearings and cam bushings would be smart as well to maintain proper oil pressure when hot. This engine combo could then be used after the spanking you're going to give the MinnieMo for other things on the farm and still use regular gas. Oh yeah....be sure you have a new foot clutch with the 9-spring pressure plate and a 3-disc hand clutch that is adjusted for a crisp "snap" so nothing slips under load. Be careful when doing heavy PTO work as this engine set-up is capable of ripping the gears out of the PTO. Make sure the fan belt is new and tight and the radiator is clean.....you'll need it to be in tip-top shape to keep cool. |
Posted By: gold642
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2010 at 7:22pm
| I an interested in the 170 pistons and sleeves . Please let me know the condition and the price. Thanks Ted |