What IS a P/U Truck ??
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
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Forum Name: Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=182356
Printed Date: 24 Aug 2025 at 5:52am
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Topic: What IS a P/U Truck ??
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Subject: What IS a P/U Truck ??
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 6:22pm
I followed a "truck" (an F150 club cab) that had a 10' Kayak in the ass end that protruded SIX feet out of the tail gate  . Sadly. I found out that "his" better half was "tailing" him in a early 2000 model year JEEP Grand Cherokee with I'm 99% sure had the same length of kayak in it's cargo hold that only stuck out 2 feet behind the bumper  WHAT constitutes a PICK UP TRUCK in this day and age ??
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Replies:
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 6:39pm
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so the bed length + tail gate was 4 ft ??? with 6 ft sticking out past that ?? shortest bed is 5.5 ft + 1.5 ft tail gate = 7 ft Minimum. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: john(MI)
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 6:43pm
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I'm thinking that if it was a short box, 5', and had the tailgate down, 2', it would only have been sticking out about, 3'. They should've bought a pool noodle and tied it down with the front on top of the cab, but then, that's just my logic! ------------- D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446 |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 6:54pm
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You Ford lovers can't see the trees through the forest , His tail gate was UP (thankfully he had a red flag tied to the "overage" of hangover !! My question IS , WHAT'S considered a TRUE PU TRUCK ??? A 4.5 ' bed is NOT it IMO
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Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 6:54pm
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FREEDGUY wrote:Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 7:04pm
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What’s Ford got to do, or not do with this post? Evidently from your observation, the kayak was as to large for the truck. Be glad he had the tailgate up, with a red flag on the craft. Geeze,, some people sure get a kick out of ‘picking sh!t with the chickens’. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 7:21pm
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The shortest bed you can get on a F150 is 67 inches ( 5-1/2 ft) and that is available on a CREW CAB... 4 doors..... A lot of people need to haul 4-6 people as much as they need to haul something in the bed.... With the tail gate down you have over 7 ft of length.. I have hauled 20 sheets of plywood in a CREW CAB bed..... i think the payload is 16- 1800 pounds for that truck. You can get a F250 regular cab with an 8 ft bed if you want more LOAD... But your not going to get 6 people inside...... Depends on what your doing. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 7:23pm
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And you can get that truck rated to tow 10K trailer... Have done it many times. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 7:25pm
Apparently my OP was a "little" over the heads of you guys as to the "DEFINITION" of an "ADVERTISED P/U"
 . IMO, it's a 3/4 ton chasis (4x2 OR 4x4) with an 8' bed  |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 7:27pm
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As always............. you dont have a CLUE what your talking about... According to data posted by JATO Dynamics, the 2020 model year — thus far — has seen the take rate of regular and extended cab trucks sink to new lows. In the U.S., crew cab pickups made up 83.1 percent of 2020MY pickups sold through May of this year. That’s up from 77.8 percent for the 2019 model year, and a significant jump from the 69 percent seen back in the hazy, long-forgotten year of 2016.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 7:32pm
What does this have to do with the length of the object that can be held in that short-assed bed ??? I haul 12' lengths of material in my REAL P/U without a "red flag"
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Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 7:35pm
These people need to get a mini van that need to haul "people"
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 7:39pm
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My truck does BOTH... Will haul 6 people AND will haul 20 sheets of plywood or 100 - 2 x 4......I have an extension that sticks into the 2 inch receiver hitch and has a cross bar 2 ft behind the tail gate ... thats 9 ft from the cab... I have hauled a couple dozen 12 ft 2 x 6 with that.. All depends on what you want... Also 4 x 4 is great for off road - around the farm - woods.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 8:00pm
LMAO !!! An "extension" to the bed
!! I rest my case, you don't run a true working P/U  !! You run a glorified (exoribitantly $$) grocery getter |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 8:12pm
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Im sure 85% of the people that BUY TRUCKS ( F150 CREW CABS) will agree with YOUR OPINION of what is a TRUCK.. Your OPINION is so valuable to everyone... If you want a REAL TRUCK, why not buy a F450 with a 12 ft flat bed ? My 400 HP " WORK TRUCK" will haul 6 people and 10K trailer and out run your old POS any day of the week !! .......... Your 5.4 V8 was known as the "LOW HP MOTOR".
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Red Bank
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 8:48pm
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 9:20pm
PLEASE... NO PICTURES !!  ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 9:36pm
| aww http://www.....i" rel="nofollow - www.....i gots ya'll beat! i hauled 8-2x6 t&g green treated 16 ft boards on the roof rack of a buick estate wagon! didn't puts no flag on them either. made 5 trips from Omaha home that way. what ever that little cross bar on that rack is made of...it's tough! never let them boards touch the roof of the car. |
Posted By: Dakota Dave
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 10:27pm
| I hauled 10 14' pieces of steel on the roof rack of my lumina APV. It's still a car. When hauling on roof rack make sure to strap over the steel and through the windows or you'll rip the rack right off. My pickup has a 6 1/2' bed it'll pull a lot more than my mini van. My K2500 HD suburban has a 12,600 lb tow rating and I can put 10' 2x4s in the back of my station wagon. Buy definition a P/U has to have a personal compartment and an open bed. So how is an Avalnche titled. My suburban is titled as a station wagon as a station wagon they have to meet passenger car standards and are heavier than a comparable P/U. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 1:33am
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Just what constitutes a personal vehicle to be classified as a sports utility vehicle and needs truck plates? Dodge Journey is no truck... specially when it was driven just to go to work in town and for groceries. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: fixer1958
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 6:37am
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Well...when I had a 87 Geo Metro I once hauled 4 bales of wood chips and 10 #50 bags of chicken feed. |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 11:36am
| @fixer1958; Were you able to get out of first gear? LOL. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 12:38pm
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 3:46pm
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A "Pickup Truck" will include the Mahindra or Jap small utes that Construction sites and large industrial facilities use for materials moves for maintenance work. Jeep CJ3 or 4 or 6 with a half cab qualifies as did the old 1920s and 30s pickup trucks with 5.5' beds that farmers used for DECADES during and after the depression thru WWII. I personally own a SD Ford F250 diesel extended cab with 8' box, while I am repairing the W900 KW. Have had all manner of Half, Heavy Half, Chev ElCamino, 3/4 and ton trucks to 2 1/2t trucks where this will be SECOND KW I have owned. ALL Can be related to 'Pickup Trucks but if want to get Absolute, there are DOT Vehicle Classification numbers. https://www.thebalancesmb.com/commercial-motor-vehicle-classification-2221025" rel="nofollow - Commercial Truck Vehicle Classification Guide (thebalancesmb.com) The vehicle manufacturer determines the GVWR by considering the combined weight of the strongest weight-bearing components, such as the axles; and the weaker components, such as the body, frame, suspension, and tires. This determines the vehicle's class, which determines the regulations that it needs to follow. In some cases, drivers may need to obtain a certain type of license before driving a vehicle. Light-Duty TrucksThe light-duty trucks category includes commercial truck classes 1, 2, and 3.
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Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 4:43pm
Well you got em to bite. You had a lively discussion. I hope the price of gas doesn't give you bad dreams or keep you from sleeping.There ant a truck, pickup or other wise
that cannot be over loaded. Or in your worry something over long loaded. So what's your next worry ??????????????? |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 6:19pm
An AVALANCH should be titled "BUTT UGLY"
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Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 6:27pm
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IMO, any "truck" bed less than 5' long is basically a rumble seat on a Model T . The need for an "extension" apparatus is a slap-in-the-face to a working guy that hauls anything of substantial LENGTH, I never said anything about "TOWING CAPACITY" !!
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 7:06pm
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poor MORON... how many times have you got to be TOLD... The beds are NOT 5 FT OR LESS !!
just keep driving your rusted out old CRAP BUCKET and everyone will be happy !! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 7:08pm
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does EVERYONE in the "NON UNION Tail Gate 2 x 4 crew" think like you ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: AcFordHawk
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 7:23pm
So my 2013 F150 SuperCab 4X4 8' bed, 10000 # tow capacity, isn't a pickup?  Oh and will haul 6 people too. ------------- IB (restoring), MF GC1705, MF 2705E |
Posted By: Wayne180d
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2021 at 7:48pm
| I guess my F250 3/4 ton with a 6.5 foot bed and 4 wheel drive is considered a grocery getter. Damn I got ripped off when I thought I bought a real truck. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 6:38am
Just think what he could do with an extension in the receiver!!!
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Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 6:42am
Well, at LEAST it's over 5 feet, and therefore not slapping him in the face.
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 8:27am
Of course mine is HOME MADE and will carry several hundred pounds... but similar to this. I have hauled couple dozen 12- 14 ft 2 x 6 with it. ... not daily, but thats not what i bought the truck for. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 9:18am
| Yeah, that's a really cool idea. I was rilin' up gassy's beer, not dissing your extension. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 9:22am
YEA... most everything i do is designed to make HIM HAPPY !! I actually used the extension when we built the house 40 years ago.. I had a "REAL TRUCK", 3/4 ton with 8 ft bed... Extension put that over 11 ft from the cab.. I could haul 16 foot 2 x with it !!
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 11:09am
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Its a good thing his opinion doesn't really matter to anybody. ------------- Making a living farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 9:25pm
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He appears to have abandoned this thread, as per usual, fire everybody up and then leave to start a new one. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 9:48pm
| @steve(ill); That extension is pretty boss. I've never seen anything like that around here. That's a great idea. The steel is strong enough to support the length without reinforcement? Is it 2" box? 1/4" thickness? Thanks. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 4:40am
Just as Trawler and Tramway do or 9N did, Dorf has been quite pleasantly absent of note.
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Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 5:30am
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Y’all wait to see where this thread go’s, if you want to start discussing what the D.O.T. considers a ‘pickup’ vs a ‘commercial’ vehicle. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 5:54am
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I bought one of those extensions, $40 from CTC decade+ ago. great except put toooo many long 2by12s on it, it'll hit the pavement on EVERY bump in the road...... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 8:29am
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I've never seen anything like that around here. That's a great idea. The steel is strong enough to support the length without reinforcement? Is it 2" box? 1/4" thickness? Thanks. LIke JAY said, they sell them many places... I made mine several years ago. Bought ones weigh maybe 30#... mine weighs maybe 60 pounds.. 2 inch tube is 1/4 inch thick. Mine has a triangle brace above the box section, from the cross bar down to the hitch... Think of a boat trailer tongue. You can put 500- 800 pounds on the rear hitch from a trailer... this works the same way... as JAY said, the further back you get the load, or the more weight you put on the hitch, the more the rear end squats.. Keeping the 2 x 4s 10 ft long helps a bunch ( on a 5.5 ft bed).. the hitch bar is at 9 ft from the front of bed.. You can haul 12 ft, but keep the number of 2 x 4s down............. helps when hauling a canoe or LONG stuff.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 10:58am
| Nah! I like my canoe to stick out 6 FEET, so it slaps people in the face. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 11:44am
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Tbone !!! Your going to rile him up AGAIN !! ............... might be easier to cut the canoe in half !! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Pat the Plumber CIL
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 12:33pm
Here's one for you  ------------- You only need to know 3 things to be a plumber;Crap rolls down hill,Hot is on the left and Don't bite your fingernails 1964 D-17 SIV 3 Pt.WF,1964 D-15 Ser II 3pt.WF ,1960 D-17 SI NF,1956 WD 45 WF. |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 12:52pm
| Gee if size matters I hauled a small 20 ft auger in the bed of my 3500 crew cab with 8 ft bed, stuck it in one corner under the tool box, put the spare tire on it, left the tailgate down, and put ratchet straps out to the end of it. Hauled it 60 miles that way. In hindsight it would have been easier to have taken the 20 ft trailer. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 7:10pm
You answered your own ?? JDCHEVY SPARROW, It's got an 8' bed, sadly it's probably as long as a school bus
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Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 7:20pm
Than WHY buy a truck ?? It' guys like YOU that drive up the price of a real truck for the average working guy
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 7:30pm
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you'r an AVERAGE WORK GUY ?? I think you'r WRONG on ALL 3 COUNTS !!
THAN ? THEN ? ... Mr OBVIOUS...  ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 7:38pm
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FreeGas... do you and the Tail Gate 2 x 4 boys think all this stuff up during LUNCH HOUR ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 8:24pm
Not YOUR school bus! ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: ZachD89
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 8:40pm
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Another useless post that starts with no common sense. The stupidity is great keep up the good work Freedguy! You never let us down ------------- 37 A,37 Waukesha B,35 WC,38 WF,M crawler,49 WF,49 WD,53 WD45,39 and 40 RC,47 WC,41 B,39 B,48G,48,C,59D10,D21,IB,B10,B12,B208,B1,Roto Bale Loader, sp100 combine, allcrop 66, L3 Gleaner |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 9:26pm
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GEES DAVE !! I thought you were going to show FreeGas Licking the windows on his Short BUS !! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 9:59pm
| If you want to define a pickup, alot has changed my grandfather had side board on the box and he would haul a cow or as many fat pigs as he could squeeze in, then he would clean it out and another day he would shovel it full of cob corn and go grind feed and bring bags of feed home from the mill. When I was a kid in the 70's hardly anyone in town had a pickup unless it was work related, now there is at least 1 in every driveway. People use them to pull boats, campers, atv/utvs on a trailer or snowmobiles in winter. You don't need an 8 ft bed but most like to have 4 doors. Even if you are hauling a antique tractor to a show. One time an 8 ft bed is necessary is if you want a 2 ft wide tool box and an L shaped fuel tank and gooseneck hitch. |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 10:30pm
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Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 4:55am
I was gonna post a picture like this, but the router decided I didn't heed ethernet, during last night's storm! ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 8:25am
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now, does that bus have a FULL 8 ft floor ?? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 9:28am
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That's the bus for a very small school!! |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 12:21pm
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Coming soon a new post on , Is this still a BUS by yours truly . ROTFLMAO
Zack ,one thing for sure its not a ACT !!!!!
------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 6:25pm
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Before I waste my time on reading last nights/ this mornings reply's , a P/U IMO is designed to haul CARGO and pull a load
!! If you want to haul 6 people and look like "big man on campus" at the grocery store, get a minivan |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 7:00pm
My wifes truck with the "useless" bed on it more than likely hauls as much cargo in its bed as your truck. So once again, its a good thing your opinion doesn't really count to anybody on here. ------------- Making a living farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 7:20pm
| Pickup trucks are Over Rated most often overloaded and under utilized, you want a REAL Cargo Hauling Truck then buy a Ton Dually with a Stake Bed. Stop your crap of showing your less then prowess at understanding basics of society. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 7:22pm
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FreeGas and his Tail Gate 2 x 4 buddies dont haul too much more than a chineese box saw for work, an old beat up hammer, and a case of beer... HE NEEDS A MINI VAN ! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 7:35pm
F250 SD 4x4, 9' service body WITH a ladder rack, STEP OFF buddy boy I've been into shops that refuse to put my "truck" on their lifts due to the weight (and it's NOT groceries)
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Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 7:51pm
What would a stake bed be good for ? I've been in a "dually" that got stuck on a wet flat driveway trying to pull a 14' trailer(I wasn't the driver) !!
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 7:54pm
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Overweight, Underpowered, Rust Buck that you and the Tail Gate 2 x 4 crew use to haul a chink saw and a Case of BEER !! GREAT !!
you have used up HALF of your load carry rating on the TOY BOX on the back !! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 9:21pm
| @steve(ill); Thanks for the reply. I have never seen one of those. |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 9:32pm
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Guys, don't scare him off, we need him for entertainment. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 5:46am
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re: I've been in a "dually" that got stuck on a wet flat driveway trying to pull a 14' trailer even funnier, last early winter, guy dropping off 'fill' next door...gets stuck on LEVEL ground with 2-3 inches of snow.he locks up the rear ends and EIGHT wheels spin in unison and he STILL can't go anywhere..really was funny,almost grabbed a chain and tLil TOOT to pull him out..seems hot tires melt snow into water so ZERO traction. Had to shovel 'fill' under tires ,then he got out.... P/U truck now means Personal Use..so 2 bags of groceries and a hockey bag for the kid .... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 7:00am
Do you even know what IMO means? Yeah, opinion, and obviously tens of MILLIONS of people have a different one. They buy what they want to buy, companies make what they think will sell. You use your truck for what you want, let others drive what they want and use it how they wish. If they aren't posing a danger, WTF difference should it make to you?
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 8:09am
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COME ON Tbone !!!. ......... He is an EXPERT at "Tail Gate Information" .... him and the BROS spend all day taking about what OTHER PEOPLE should be doing.. If he spent his time WORKING, he would not have time to worry about others ! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 8:19am
Yeah... Several different takes on this, but I think this is my favorite: Expert, break it down into its root words. And "ex" is a has been, a "spurt" is a drip under pressure. |
Posted By: Greg (Hillsboro, OH)
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 11:21am
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Tbone, i totally agree with you. the manufacturers are making what people want and people spend on. If there wasn't a profit to it, they wouldn't do it. That is the beauty of free entreprise, manufacturers can make what the customers demand. Thank goodness there isn't a gestapo in place like SOMEONE would like to keep us from having the products we desire. Designs have changed a lot from even the truck that Sugarmaker is rebuilding, and that is because the made what customers have wanted over the years. |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 12:35pm
F250 Wow, such a big time hauling truck.... lmao!!! Must of been shops with car lifts and not truck lifts.------------- Making a living farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 4:19pm
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You sure they are talking about the Truck . ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |