German tank
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Topic: German tank
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Subject: German tank
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 4:24pm
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Was reading posts of the old German who had a ww2 tank and a whole lot of weapons and ammo in his basement. I dont want to be a rat fink, but my landlord had his complete ww2 outfit including rifle, gas mask, pistol, ammo and numerous uniforms stored above his shop. He proudly showed them to me on day. He told me numerous guys had their complete kits in storage ready incase they needed them when the russians came. He said Jewish people pay no taxes in Germany. He was an apartment building owner and he showed me the exorbitant property tax he paid. He was never married and was a butcher by trade. |
Replies:
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 6:08pm
|
https://youtu.be/1XIkZgCJZCs" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/1XIkZgCJZCs
------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: dr p
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 8:21pm
| Jewish people in Germany? You mean both of them? I remember when I was a kid, my grandfather went back to Germany to sit Shiva for a cousin who passed. They couldn't find enough people. They had both been imprisoned at treblinka |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2021 at 11:11pm
He may have said that, but it isn't true. ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
HD6GTOM wrote:Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 3:47am
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Why is it a crime to own a antique tank you cannot buy parts for or ammunition to use the weapons on?? Or even drive on motorways?? It becomes nothing more than a moving yard ornament. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 6:36am
He must have a really big basement!
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Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2021 at 8:30am
| From the article I read the guy was a collector of Nazi memorabilia. With the tank being in his basement sounds like it would have been inoperable and the video showed German Army Tank Retreiver pulling the Panther with no tracks probably to move it easier. All said anything Nazi is illegal in Germany as the War did not go well under Nazi control once the world saw what happened! |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 4:38am
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Was in Germany in the 70s, stayed in Zimmerfrei or rooms to rent as toured the countryside, one farm we stayed at spoke thru a daughter to a German Farmer where discussed the TV(Gunsmoke in German language) and the photos of his deceased brothers on the shelf(in full NAZI regalia) two helmets and several medals in a frame alongside those photos. He spoke calmly as to being led down a path by Hitler as the nation needed to work and the Great Depression had them starving. He still had his 8mm Mauser service weapon complete with a Nazi emblem on the receiver. It isn't the in home presentation of NAZI memorabilia or ownership of NAZI materials that is illegal, it is the use of those to instill a resurrection of the party. Having that tank was not so much illegal as the Gov't did not want the underlying NAZI supporters to gain it.
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Posted By: KMAG
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 5:00am
| I suspect a chain of custody issue as to ownership of that tank was basis for seizing it as govt property. Most post-war Panther tanks went to scrapper or French army and then scrapper in 1950s. Most survivors were from eastern block, range targets, or saved by allies until put in museums. |
Posted By: KMAG
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 5:10am
USA - you may own a tank. Parts are available if you have the $$$. Tool budget needs increase. Still can shoot - need BATF Destructive Device Tax stamp ($200) for main gun and another tax stamp per machine gun. Drive on motorways? Yes, with weight/width restrictions in some places. The biggie is using rubber padded tracks to avoid chewing up road surfaces. T34s Russian tanks were selling for $30k in 1990s and light British stuff under $20k. USA Sherman M4a1 runs around $140k now. |
Posted By: caledonian
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 6:30pm
| A Sherman tank would be handy in rush hour traffic. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 6:51pm
| Sherman would be more reliable than a German Panther or Tiger! Myself I would prefer an M18 Hellcat Tank Destroyer except in Cold or rainy weather! |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 6:58pm
| https://youtu.be/rsJKT5hiSJ0" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/rsJKT5hiSJ0 |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 7:26pm
Gotta love Gunny! may he rest in peace! ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2021 at 7:32pm
| https://www.motortrend.com/features/1944-buick-m18-hellcat-tank-destroyer-first-drive/" rel="nofollow - https://www.motortrend.com/features/1944-buick-m18-hellcat-tank-destroyer-first-drive/ |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2021 at 9:46pm
| @klinemar; I'd still prefer a Tiger I. Man those things look BAD@SS. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 12:48pm
| JTool,the Tiger had good frontal armor and a gun that would penetrate any Allied Tank at ranges farther than Allied guns. Tigers were very heavy and thirsty. A WW2 P47 Pilot I visited with told me the Germans would transport Tigers and Panthers by Rail which made them sitting ducks! Rocket and Machine gun firing P47's took out the Locamotive and then shot up the rest of the train. Out in the open country the Germans had no way of unloading them. What prevented the Germans from defeating us in the Battle of the Bulge was not our Tanks but our Engineers who blew up all of the bridges capable of supporting Tiger Tanks! The bridges that the Engineers left our Tanks being lighter could cross and we brought our own bridges. Prefabricated bridges were something the Germans did not have! |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 1:32pm
| One statistic that many do not realize is the Germans total Tank Production of all types was 49,000. Russia built 109 to 115,000 " The Russians didn't share exact numbers" and the U.S. built 105,000 of all types. Approximately 1,357 Tiger Tanks were built with the majority facing the Russians.6,000 Panther tanks were built and again most faced the Russians. 45,000 Sherman and 50,000 T34's were built. In war he who gets there first with the most wins! |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 7:28pm
| @klinemar; Yeah, air power made many things almost obsolete. Battleships, railway guns, heavy tanks, etc. but still, those Tiger I's and II's were pretty impressive machines. I remember reading a quote from an American tanker to the effect of we would have to engage the Tigers with 4 Shermansand expect to lose 3. Those were regular Shermans I'm sure and not the Fireflys. That info about the bridge's is interesting. Never would have thought about that. Thanks. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 9:44pm
| JTool. One item the Russians did not share was a discovery they made on captured German Tanks particularly Panthers and Tigers. The armor on those Tanks was extremely hard and brittle better to stop armor piercing ammo. What the Russians discovered was that the armor did not have to be penetrated to disable the Tank. All that was needed was a suitable explosive charge hitting the outside armor and causing the interior to shatter sending steel shards throughout the interior of the Tank killing or wounding the crew. That is why the T34 was upgunned from 76mm.to 85 and the JS2 Heavy Tank was equipped with a 122mm. gun. The 76 mm. British gun in the converted Firefly was a good anti tank gun but inaccurate as the gun had to be mounted sideways in the turret with the gunner aiming by almost standing on his head. The American 76mm. was a good gun and accurate we just didn't have enough High Velocity Armor Piercing Ammo. HVAP ammo used carbide as the penetrating core and the US needed most of the carbide for machine tools for the War effort. |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2021 at 11:53pm
| @klinemar; WOW!! I'm just a run of the mill WWII "expert". You are a BONA FIDE WWII expert. (I hope that doesn't come across as smart@ssedbecause it's not. You are really impressing me with your knowledge.) I've never had the gumption OR the discipline to study these facts down to the detail that you have. Keep going. (If you want to.). Thanks. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2021 at 7:32am
| Thanks JTool. I grew up listening to WW2 Vets. Peaked my interest in History. I don't watch TV but do read articles and books and with the internet I can watch documentaries. One very good researcher is The Chieftain, a retired Armor Officer who served in both the Irish and American Armies. He is a researcher for the video game World of Tanks. Which I do not play but he posts videos on YouTube that I do watch.Look him up. He does videos in museums showing all about Tanks. Another source is the British Tank Museum at Bovington. They have the only fully operational Tiger Tank and loaned it and their M4A3E8 Sherman for the Movie Fury. Look them up . They have a YouTube channel called Tank Chats. |
Posted By: caledonian
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2021 at 3:49pm
| Yeah I had a uncle that was a Major adjacent commander of a Tank Battalion in Europe. He used to talk about ganging up on a tiger tank. If you flanked them you could knock them out from the rear. Or you could blind them with smoke or phosphorus. Or you could use the lay of the land to your advantage get in close an ambush then from the flank or rear. Normally they didn't run into to many. Tigers were to heavy not only for bridges but some roads also. They were slow , very thirsty and inclined to break down. When they broke down the German's had to abandon them as they had no way to recover them from the field. They were lousy in soft ground. Yeah with their big gun and heavy armor they were scary but we had several ways of knocking them out. |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 8:15am
| @klinemar; You're welcome brother. I'm a history buff myself. Especially military history. From the Greek and Persian Wars up to the present day I am absolutely enthralled with the personalities, strategies, weapon's and tactics of warfare through the years. Glad to find a kindred spirit. Also mega thanks for the resource's on YouTube. I'm going to check to check those out. |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 8:22am
| @caledonian; Thanks for the post my man. That's really cool that you know someone who lived it. And lived through it. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 9:25am
Actually the Germans had a excellent recovery system and placed emphasis on recovering Tigers as they were priceless. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 9:30am
I have read several books on the Tiger and the Germans have NEVER mentioned explosive charges as being a threat, you have to penetrate the armor. You have to consider the source, Russians constantly lied about every thing during the war. The Russians upgunned for penetration, plain and simple. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 9:34am
The Tiger II or King Tiger's front armor was never penetrated during the war, also had the best anti tank gun of the war. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 10:51am
Actually Tigers were good in soft ground , track psi was 15,6 psi, shermans were 14psi but the Tiger had large interwoven road wheels that spread out the pressure on the tracks far better then the sherman or most other Allied tanks except the T 34. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: caledonian
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 4:18pm
| Well the fact of the matter is as fabulous as the German Tiger tank was or was supposed to be they still lost. |
Posted By: Dorix
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 5:17pm
| The Russian T34 tanks looked horrible and were crude the military museum near EAA has one. But they were decent tanks otherwise and had enough to matter, the German tanks were made better but they couldn't make them in large enough numbers. That's my take on it anyway. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 5:31pm
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Hitler lost Germany surrendered Did a report on pre and during WWII Germany for a social science course long long ago. Hitler had all the mechanization and factories where could have won, his major fault was a ego that pushed him into V weapons or Wonder Weapons as the translation goes. Too many variations on a theme for rolling stock as tanks and artillery, too many variations as to munitions types from hand guns to big guns, spent too much time dabbling with science and too little producing what was necessary to win. Egomaniacal major mental idiot, and as much a person that could not justify delegation of authority to others Micro Manager. |
Posted By: Dorix
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 8:19pm
| I think I read some where that when he invaded Poland something like 40% of the military's supplies went by horse and wagon. He had impressive combat equipment but that alone doesn't win wars. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 9:18pm
| Never Green have YOU heard of Spalling on the inside of a Tank? In anti-tank warfare, spalling through mechanical stress is an intended effect of high-explosive squash head (HESH) anti-tank shells and many other munitions which may not be powerful enough to pierce the armor of a target. ... Many AFVs are equipped with spall liners inside their armor for protection. Spall liners were installed in Cold War Era Tanks as a result of HESH rounds used in WW2.As for the prowess of the Tiger Tank many were destroyed by any means at hand. Meaning Air Power, Artillery,Tank and Tank Destroyer. I read of one Tiger Tank having its turret blowed completely off when hit directly by a American 155mm. Self Propelled gun. That gun was not firing armor piercing ammunition. It fired high explosive! Germany did not have enough King Tigers, Tiger1 or Panthers to win the war no matter how big of guns they carried or how low of track psi. Hell they didn't have fuel enough to run them 250 kilometers! |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 9:54pm
| Dads next youngest brother was a tanker that came up thru WW2 with Patton. He had 2 Sherman's blown out from under him. He spent a year in a Denver rehab hospital. We were told "never ask him questions about WW2". He always had a real wild look to his eyes. I've tried to find any information about uncle Don and the other 3 brothers. So far I've been unsuccessful. Dad would never talk about his experiences either. |
Posted By: Dorix
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 10:20pm
| I remember hearing in WW1 bullets hitting the early tanks wouldn't penetrate but would cause pieces of metal on the inside of the steel body to come loose and cause injury. Is this what spalling is? |
Posted By: caledonian
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2021 at 10:45pm
| P 47s were deadly on German tanks and all equipment. And yes the hull of a tiger could be breached. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2021 at 4:44am
| The Tiger and Panther a Military History Conclusion. https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2018/10/07/the-tiger-and-panther-conclusions/" rel="nofollow - https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2018/10/07/the-tiger-and-panther-conclusions/ |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2021 at 5:56am
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Very clear article Klinemar, defines the simplicity of the US and Soviet sheer numbers of machines essentially overwhelmed the Germans. When have a limited fuel range and limited munitions cache the high tech German machines were just outgunned by the gnat effect where cannot swat enough and eventually are bitten into submission. Germany could not get to the Soviet nor Allied manufacturing to stop or slow them, did manage to sink many transports evading the onslaught for a time but could not defend a four battle front war. The lack of fuel was the Achilles heel, the Battle of the Bulge was the absolute evidence to that where the Germans were siphoning fuel from damaged Allied machines to feed their own, they would remark captured machines to their own label to reuse against a ant farm volume enemy. T34s up to T62s are all basically the same premise, disposable, sacrificial yet in mass volumes. Got to take a Izzy captured Egyptian T62 to the weapons range at Ft Knox in '74, to be destroyed as a target. Was crude, unrefined, slapped together as the Engineers noted with really poor loose enough fit ups to allow it to be built, longevity was an obvious NOT concern. The Egyptians bought them at bargain basement pricing, seems had AWESOME heaters for USSR style winters but no cooling system for the interior, were ovens and deathtraps, the Izzies captured Dozens of them during that 1960s Egyptian gamble to eradicate Israel. Same premise during the Iran Battles, the Soviet Era Tanks were simply targets of numbers.
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Posted By: Tad Wicks
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2021 at 12:19pm
| No kidding about how the Russians could care less about aesthetics on the T34, extremely crude, big thick plates were torched by hand and then welded by hand with no clean up at all where it didn't matter, mostly in the hull, it was pure 100% functionality, uglier than hell but who cares? it was all about production and survival. The track system was superior to most, designed by Walter Christie, an American, who tried to sell his bogie track system of which the tracks could be removed and the machine driven on the bogies themselves to save wear and tear on the tracks to the U.S. but was declined and picked up by the Russians. I don't believe that the Russians ever used the removable track option. One can sum up the T34 in a few words, Crude Common and Vulgar but deadly |
Posted By: Dorix
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2021 at 11:32pm
| Tad that pretty well describes the tank at the museum. I was told once that some tanks had transmission trouble and came equipped with a short handled sledgehammer to pound it into gear. I haven't seen or heard this anywhere else so feel free not to believe it. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 1:46am
| I have seen pictures of early T34 Tanks going into battle with a spare transmission strapped onto the back! |
Posted By: Dorix
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 10:56am
| That's seems like it would be the ultimate battlefield repair. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 4:22pm
Air attacks only accounted for 3-4 % of tank losses, 50 cal could not penetrate the armor of a tank, rockets were highly inaccurate. During target practice on a Panther typhoons only hit three times out several hundred. The King Tiger NEVER hads its frontal armor breached.
------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 4:28pm
| Shape Charge Bazooka round, light anti tank cannon either of which shot into the side of the machine BELOW the fender and essentially thru a track would set off internal explosive detonations and fuels, similarly a shot to the rear anywhere near to the intake or exhaust penetrations would disable the engines. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 4:33pm
Spalling from HESH rounds was the copper core from the round itself penetrating the armor. The armor had to be penetrated, one Tiger in Russia had over one hundred hits and returned to the front lines, large caliber high explosive rounds from artillery could penetrate the thinner roof armor, one lucky shot. There are countless examples of Tigers having several hits half way through the armor and the tank kept fighting, no spalling. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 4:40pm
This guy is cracked, he claims the t 34 is better then the Panther, tanks are rated by mobility, protection, and fire power The Panther had a far superior gun, it was even better then the Tiger I, armor was nearly twice as thick in spots on Panther, mobility was close going to T 34, the kicker was the T 34 had a one man turret, meaning commander loaded the gun as well, not good. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: caledonian
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 5:25pm
| You know what never green . You are beginning to annoy me. Why did the Germans fear the allied air attacks so much if they were so ineffective ? How about bombs ? 250 and 500 lb bombs dropped on all kinds of German equipment ? Including tanks ? Dropped from a low altitude . Why is it that my Uncle witnessed this during the Battle of the Bulge, when the course of battle changed when the weather cleared up and our air corp got involved ? P47s just as low as the terrain would allow attacking German tanks. You tell him it didn't happen mister. You tell him and other G I 's like him that a tiger could not be destroyed. Why is it that when a tiger ran out of fuel the crew abandoned it and walked away? Because they were thirsty and they had no way to refuel them ? Why is it when a tiger broke down that when they tried to pull it with another tiger they had to be very careful as to not over work the good tiger so much as to cause it to break down ? Yes a Sherman could knock out a tiger. It happened. Tell my Uncle and others like him who saw it happen that it didn't happen mister. And yes the turret of a tiger could be blown clear off. Allied armies figured out way's of destroying tigers when they encountered them. Tell that to all the GI's who saw it happen that it didn't mister. You can look up all the damn trivia you want. The GI's who saw it first hand have the real answers mister. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 5:53pm
First all, wow, Im just giving you the facts, the Germans love to document crap and tanks were rarely nocked out by air, yes soft targets were savaged by air but not tanks. During air attacks the tankers were told to stay in their tanks, most got killed when bailing. The Germans have documented nearly every Tiger tank and the means of its loss. I never said a Sherman couldnt knock out a Tiger, the fact is the Tiger was an excellent defensive tank, most GI's called every tank they saw a Tiger when in fact it was the British who mostly engaged them.
------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2021 at 8:15pm
Never Green ,notice the hole in the side of the turret. Obviously penetration!
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2021 at 3:31am
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Every tank ever built has soft spots M1 Abrams are no better with all the fancy reactive armor coverings they too can be taken out. Truth is fact the Germans had too few, were too complex/over engineered to be mass produced in quantity, the Soviet machines were in quantity to overwhelm opponents but were also sacrificial as much as the US Shermans were early on. We as Allied forces adapted the Germans/Axis forces could not. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 2:12pm
I stated " the frontal armor" the side armor is thinner. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 3:15pm
| Never Green you did state "Frontal Armor" and I stated King Tigers were destroyed any way they could be. Would you like to see a photo of a King Tiger with no turret? And tell me how many crew members survived the one I uploaded? I would say the driver but the crew in the turret ? |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 3:33pm
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Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 3:37pm
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Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2021 at 3:40pm
| The last photo Never Green was taken with Russian Soldiers standing on the hull. Since most of the King Tigers faced the Russians. And you are correct Never Green the front armor was not penetrated! |
Posted By: LouSWPA
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 10:17am
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well I see this one calmed down, thought I was looking at the pOlitical section for awhile ------------- I am still confident of this; I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 11:03am
| Regardless Lou,war has not been declared! |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 8:35pm
| @Dorix; Your post about the horses reminded me that I recently learned that when the Axis invaded the Soviet Union they had around 700,000 horses to haul/pull their supplies. So much for the industrial/mechanized Nazi War Machine. LOL. |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 8:38pm
| Good folks; Have any of you all heard/read about how the Soviets attempted to use dogs with explosives/bombs attached to them to combat the Panzers? IIRC the project wasn't very successful but WOW! That is TOTAL WAR right there. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 9:01pm
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Yes, I read about Russians using dogs as anti tank weapons. They fed the dogs under a tank so that they would crawl under one looking for food while carrying a satchel charge harnessed to their back with a trigger extending up to make contact with the tanks underside. The project didn't work as some dogs crawled under Russian tanks and the Germans shot any dog they saw. The U.S. had an experimental program to release bats covered with a fire starter that ignited when the bat hung upside down for sleeping. The idea was to drop canisters of bats,have them fly into Japanese wooden homes and start fires burning cities down. The Air Force figured Napalm would be more reliable! |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 9:16pm
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The WWII German Army was 80% Horse drawn. The bulk of the German Army—the dough feet of the normal infantry divisions—moved on shank's mare. The rifle companies' transport consisted of three-horse wagons, on which the troops loaded their packs. Not many people know that the greatest use of horses in any military conflict in history was by the Germans in WWII: 80% of their entire transport was equestrian. Despite all the propaganda about Blitzkreig, formidable German R&D, industrial design and production, the day to day mechanics of that fighting force involved an average of 1.1 million horses throughout the war. Of the 322 German divisions in the middle of the war - 1943 - only 52 were armored or motorized. The great bulk of the German combat strength—the old-type infantry divisions—marched into battle on foot, with their weapons and supply trains propelled almost entirely by four-legged horsepower. The light and mountain divisions had an even greater proportion of animals, and the cavalry divisions were naturally mainly dependent on the horse. The allies by comparison enjoyed the strategic advantage of the USA's ability to mass produce motorized vehicles, with low unit cost and rapid quantity production, coupled with relatively easy access to fuel worldwide. |
Posted By: LouSWPA
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 9:44pm
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I read one account that the German soldiers, upon the allied arrival on D day was shocked that the allies were all mechanized! ------------- I am still confident of this; I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
Posted By: JTOOL
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2021 at 10:00pm
| @klinemar; The thing that I recall is that the Soviets trained the dogs around their diesel powered tanks and then in actual combat the dogs would seek THEM out instead of the gasoline powered panzers. Who knows? But that is what makes this all interesting right? I have never heard of the U.S. bat plan. I'll have to look into that. Thanks. |
Posted By: Tad Wicks
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2021 at 9:30am
| Yep, the bat plan, it was going great until they released a bunch of bats in a trial run and they burnt down some of their own buildings, end of bat plan. I guess it worked. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2021 at 11:24am
| Same problem with the Russian Anti Tank Dogs! |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2021 at 11:39am
| With this thread I got carried away with both my sarcasm and anger and for that I sincerely apologize. I have adopted Military History as my hobby for over 60 years. I have read countless books and articles and watched Documentaries. I am no expert but I do research a subject. When statements are made that this particular military weapon or machine is the best or invulnerable I have to chuckle. Man has invented over time many machines or weapons that have since been so called replaced! Some that come to mind are Castles which were defeated by undermining or cannon. The French in the period between WW1 and WW2 built the Maginot Line to keep the Germans out. The United States developed the Atomic Bomb to end WW2 and we have fought conventional and unconventional wars since. The United Nations was formed as a place for Nations to avert War and that has not come to pass. War is as old as Cain and Able. And I see no end in the foreseeable future! |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2021 at 1:26pm
| Here is a video from an English man about a battle between German Tiger 1's and US Halftracks. https://youtu.be/0Y2-5rNENTA" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/0Y2-5rNENTA |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2021 at 1:34pm
| Here is a video by the same Man on a duel between an American M8 Greyhound Armored Car and a German King Tiger. Much like David and Goliath! https://youtu.be/jx8InfzkHYI" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/jx8InfzkHYI |
Posted By: LouSWPA
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2021 at 4:40pm
------------- I am still confident of this; I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
Posted By: Tad Wicks
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2021 at 5:58pm
| Well Lou, The second coming of Christ will be the beginning of the largest and the last war known to mankind, a war to end all wars and it aint going to be pretty, as I recall, something about, the blood will flow as high as a horses bridle. |