XT/200 ??
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=181814
Printed Date: 23 May 2024 at 1:44pm
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Topic: XT/200 ??
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Subject: XT/200 ??
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 8:40pm
| All things being equal- hours, paint, tire condition, which would you guys prefer ? |
Replies:
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 8:58pm
| 190 XT, as the 200,s seemed differt and at mid point was a cost reduced in certain areas, the XT,S were always solid |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 9:10pm
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If it’s a series IIIXT then it will have the same reared as the 200. A few changes on the 200, short throw PD, grill, fuel system. Either one is a winner in my book. I personally like the long throw PD on my XT verses the 200. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 9:29pm
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All things being equal, they are both the same tractor! Very minor changes between a series 3 and 200. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 9:50pm
|
200, heavier finals, housing and ring gear pinion.... pistons were different to prevent gaulding - (most have been changed by now) 20 % more cooling capacity and increased engine oil capacity. 200 hyd pump (same as late series III ) was much better. The late 200 had a smoother shift in the pd via better shift valve. 200's had option of and most had 38" rear tires and larger front tire option. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: LionelinKY
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 10:25pm
 After growing up with this girl over the last 50 years, I'll have to admit being just a little bit biased-LOL.
------------- "My name is Lionel and I'm an Allisoholic" |
Posted By: btred1466
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 10:47pm
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What are the differences in the 190XT and 200 Brake Systems? What is involved in changing one of these from a Mechanical PTO to a Hydraulic PTO? If it possible, which I think it is, curious about this. Also a Single 540 PTO to a Dual 540/1000PTO? I don't own either or any Allis Chalmers but I like both those Tractors 190XT and 200's.
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 11:53pm
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late brakes were expanding center with discs - like the 7000 . Early were like the 190 band expanding drum. See agcopartsbooks.com and compare. It would require a donor tractor and a major job to convert to hyd pto and questionable upgrade unless starting and stopping the pto a bunch. Single to dual pto requires rear lift hsg swap and guts. Rare options as it added a substantial amount to invoice. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 9:28am
|
A 200 is the most refined version of the 190XT. Many improvements. The 7000 is the final revision of that basic powertrain, but is significantly different, it's basically in a class by itself. A late XT would perform like a 200 in the field. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Joe(TX)
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 10:03am
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One of the biggest improvement on the 200 was the crank driven oil pump and piston cooling. ------------- 1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 10:10am
|
Anyone ever think about putting a 7000 drive train in a 200 ??? ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: Ky.Allis
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 1:33pm
| I'm not positive but didn't the 200 have nicer seat with fold up arm rests and above hood muffler and I know they had the option of tilt/telescope steering wheel cause mine has it. Late 200's with the gated PD control is super easy to shift/feather with the short throw and hand guide. The 200 was the last AC tractor made with manual shifted PD that you could "feather" during operation. Some talk about later 200"s being "price cutter" version. Well that's what mine is and only difference I ever saw was 2 headlights instead of 4 and the hollow front support. On the positive side that hollow front support allows you to change the front crank seal without removing the entire front end. So the "price cutter" myth does not amount nothing!!!! With the 540/1000 hyd. PTO option;they were a pretty darn good tractor in their day. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:16pm
From what I've read, the 7000 is a "bastard child" ???
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injpumpEd wrote:Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:55pm
| I've often thought about taking a maroon 7000 and grafting 200 Sheetmetal onto it. The length of the torque tube is exactly the same. The length of the rear end is too. I'd use 200 side frames, front axle and radiator/hood/dashboard/cowl/clutch/brake pedals /platform/console control. It could be done and would be a sleeper to an untrained eye. True "independent" PTO and three-speed Power Shift with a real road gear !! whooo hoooo !! |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 6:13pm
Thanks for the info, but that's WAY too much work $$ for the average first time/ STO operator IMO
 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 6:18pm
| Simply a response the Fred's question. It would be a big project, almost requiring two whole tractors. The brake pedal linkage would be a challenge. The clutch pedal linkage would be as well. Other than that, I don't see anything else that would pose a serious engineering problem. It would be really cool and expensive to do. The 7000 torque tube requires use of a 7000 rear end and that would essentially be the entire driveline. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 6:21pm
| Thanks for the reply Doc. Is it true that an "early" 7000 was not very desirable ? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 7:32pm
| I don't know where you get that idea. I never desired them because a 7040 was waaay more tractor with bigger hydraulics, wet brakes, wet-clutch, more speed selections, differential lock, and on and on. The 7000 was a nice replacement for a 190XT or 200, as it was better in every way. There was just a big hole from 106 HP to 136 HP and an even bigger hole in the features on the bigger tractor. They should have had the 7010 with an intercooler at 115 HP, the 7040 where it was at 136 HP and the 7000 at 100 HP, thus drawing a line in chassis config at over 100 HP got your the Deeluxe models. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 7:40pm
I'm sorry, it wasn't meant on you Doc, I've read on other forums about the 7000 model specifically  .
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Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 9:17pm
|
So what is the list of problems that makes a 7000 a "bastard child" ------------- He who dies with the most toys is, nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 9:25pm
| From what I recall, same dry clutch as the xt/200, equal to or less hp than the above units, no parts interchanging with other 7000 series ?? I have no proof of this, just what I recall reading on other forums . |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 9:44pm
|
When I was a kid I used to hear my uncles and my dad say "stay away from the maroon chassis 7000 series". Of course that was in the late 70's and none of my family owned any 7000 series at the time to base that statement on. My thoughts are that it was based on hearing about the Power Shift maroon chassis having some early failures. I believe that was cured with a shift valve change that I assume took place with the black chassis introduction in 1977-78. The plain 7000 tractors around here, whether maroon or black chassis, have a great reputation and served long hours on dairies and small farms in my area for years. I would swap my pretty nice 200 for a good 7000 any day of the week. The 200 is a better looking tractor though in my book. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 6:58am
| The maroon 7000 used the same exact foot clutch as a 200, which was just fine. It wasn't just fine when it came to running a big round baler. Any dry clutch's life can never match the wet power director clutch life of a 190/200 tractor when stopping & starting 100 times a day. The dry foot clutch never got adjusted to help increase its service life because most Owners were ignorant of keeping "free-play" in the clutch pedal, adding to possible shorter life. I've never had one single 7000 power shift clutch failure in a maroon tractor, so that would encompass several dozens of those units in my service area over the years. As much as I dis-liked the tractor, they really had less issues than many of the larger models. It's always funny to me how "some guy said" becomes truth when it really isn't. I know lots of real truths about Deere tractors, but most brain-washed owners will never admit to them. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 9:06am
| I hear ya Doc - on how words from ppl who have no experience with the subject carry on as to be truth- My opinion on a 7000 was the 3 speed powershift is one of a kind and -rare- i guess, but id luv to own one ! |
Posted By: Harvey/pa
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 9:42am
| We had a Farm Sale at a Dairy last week where there were mostly older IHC tractors and one John Deere 100+ hp cab & loader, all were well used. The Deere guys were saying all the tractors sold very high but of course the JD was really a bargain, really cheap, they were all shaking their heads but I didn't see any of them bidding...Harvey |
Posted By: soggybottomboy
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 12:37pm
| On the 200, they used a seven blade fan which ran slower than the 5 blade fan on the one ninety, but still moved just as much or more air through the cooling system. There was supposed to be less fan noise which made the tractor more pleasant to drive. This fan was driven by 2 belts instead of one, and that was definitely a good thing because the belt on the one ninety had to be kept very tight or it would slip. |
Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 8:10pm
| After operating dads older XT and my late 200, I'd never want to go back to the XT. I've got a factory cab with air that needs a little work but the heat works very well. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 8:52pm
|
The #1 gorilla in the equation is one never had gear jump out with a 7000 - they put a angle on the shifter teeth and collar that causes the shifter collar to pull in the harder it pulled which was an issue if one pulled into an object and wanted to shift out of gear quickly... 7000 had a tranny brake which was almost never adjusted correctly - resulting in reverse grind out.... ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2021 at 6:46pm
|
Again, 200 is just a refined 190XT. I still love my XT, I have no significant reason to trade for a 200. My neighbor has a gated 200 PD and honestly I like my long throw handle PD better. Its like comparing a 67 Camaro to a 69 Camaro...the 69 has hidden headlamps and a little smoother body line. Both really good cars, the 69 is a little more refined. Same with this scenario, both good tractors..200 is just a little more refined. The 4 pinion rear end od a 200 vs a early 2 pinion rear of a early XT is a significant upgrade. So that’s a big issue. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2021 at 7:48am
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Just as Dr mentioned, I've always thought it would be a cool project to build a 190/200 looking tractor using the 7000 powertrain for a 3 speed power director/power-shift. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2021 at 12:53pm
|
A 3 spd in a 190 would have been great with a neutral in between them. Underdrive - neutral - direct - neutral - overdrive. Most 190's had a drag in the 2 spd clutch but my one One-Ninety XT, when you put it in neutral, it does not drag at all. Luv that old tractor. But sadly, it is wearing out. And I do not like the hydraulic engagements on the 7040 etc series at all, it is either on or off and there is no feathering of them. Or so the ones I have run. Hate that. Also hate the entry and exit of those 7000 series tractors. Tin work of the 190/200 on a 7000 chassie sounds interesting. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 7:02am
I've had a one ninety XT for years, and love it. Put a  ton of$$$$$ into the engine about Three years ago, little hard to take, but if I divide the cost of it over the next forty years (I'll be 98 then) that I plan to run it, it won't be a bad gig. Brought home a 200 last Saturday, because I loved everything about my XT, but wanted dual PTO's, three point hitch, and hydraulic PTO clutch. 200 has all of that. Still keeping the XT, but think that I'll be liking the 200 also. Have work enough for both. Was hoping for factory air in the 200, but I guess that the original owner was too tight to spring for that. If anyone knows where I can score the factory air components for the 200, I'd love to hear from you! Thanks, Darrel
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Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 7:30am
| Can you put an automotive vintage air unit in it. They apparently work well. |
Posted By: DCAC
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2021 at 8:31pm
|
So the dual pto with hydraulic pto clutch are not common on 190 XT's, or just the dual pto? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this? I have my Grandpa's series 3 with both hydraulic clutch and dual pto, so was jsut curious. |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2021 at 3:37am
|
DCAC, in my own personal experience, I have seen a lot more 200"s with those options than I have seen XT"s Darrel |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2021 at 9:31pm
Let’s hear a few! |
Posted By: DCAC
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2021 at 7:18am
| Thanks, Darrel! |