I thought of the anti bio fuel nuts today
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Topic: I thought of the anti bio fuel nuts today
Posted By: victoryallis
Subject: I thought of the anti bio fuel nuts today
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 7:12pm
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Put gas in my D17 fall of 2019 don’t use it much so a 2.5 gallon can lasts awhile as long as remember to turn the gas off. I start the tractor 4-5 times a year to move it. Doesn’t get 15 minutes a year run time. In the process of converting my storage shed to a shop so I’ve ran it some more shuffling stuff around. She’s running like a top with gas containing ethanol. Proof a clean fuel system doesn’t need ethanol free gas. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Replies:
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 8:01pm
| I run regular gas in everything I own including chainsaws. No problems. |
Posted By: SLee(IA)
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 8:01pm
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I'm with you Victory. Our WD45 was bought new in 1953 by my dad. Don't use it much now. Run an auger once in a while or move a wagon. Been running E10 since it became available 30+ years ago. Starts with a touch of the starter and runs great. Steve
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Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 8:04pm
Seems like it's the guys that run STIHL equipment that have issues 
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Posted By: john(MI)
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 8:38pm
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I don't have any problems with it, not even in my Stihl chainsaww. ------------- D14, D17, 5020, 612H, CASE 446 |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 9:24pm
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Still saw, tree trimmer. 24 HP B&S mower, couple B tractors, 2 cars, Pickup .... all no problems. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2021 at 10:45pm
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Just up the street from my son’s house, A Murphy Oil gas station will soon open, the sign say’s ‘ethanol free gas available’. Hope it will be the 87 octane variety, don’t want to pay more for the higher octane grades. Some Walmart’s also have ethanol free gas, but not any that I know of in the Midland/Odessa area. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: AaronSEIA
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 5:47am
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Same here. Pulled the carb apart on my 25 year old rebuilt WC. Inside looked like the day I put it together and had E10 in it 100% of those 25 years. AaronSEIA
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Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 6:35am
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When I used to cut hay with a D10 on a hot day after running it for about 30minutes it would start to run poorly,take the hood off and it would be fine apparently the alcohol in the gas was causing vapor lock.Went back to 100% gas solved the problem. I leave the side panels off my Oliver 1550 gas so the heat of the motor isn't heating the gas tank.About the only people I know that claim to like Ethanol are those financially benefiting from growing corn.Ironically the largest seller off non ethanol gasoline in my area is a farmers coop.
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Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 7:05am
| Many of those Oliver's vapor locked years before Ethonol was in the gas. Why are so many of them missing the side shields now?? Ford's did too. |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 7:31am
Well mine runs fine on non ethanol gas not so fine on ethanol contaminated gas.You're probably referring to the old 66-88 models with the fully enclosed engines.
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Allis dave wrote:Posted By: Alex09(WI)
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 10:13am
You should consider yourself lucky. I have seen time after time in my repair business where the ethinol itself breaks down into a slime and cloggs up the carburetor jets and passages where the fuel system would otherwise be clean. ------------- www.awtractor.com A&W TRACTOR 920-598-1287 KEEPING ALLIS-CHALMERS IN THE FIELDS THROUGH THE 21ST CENTURY |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 10:18am
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Yeah victory, but you don't live where it's humid and you get temperature swings! Hahahahaha ......Cue Dave Kamp book on alcohol.
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 10:47am
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It's like the BioDiesel, don't let it sit in our humid climate. BioDiesel goes sour like a jug of milk, so starting it on occasion may help, but you have to use it up, if the fuel sitting in the tank is a year old, it's going to be sour if it is a high content of bio. I am no chemist, but the pumps coming in gummed up seized and won't run is happening more and more. DO NOT RUN BIODIESEL IN A TRACTOR THAT SITS A LOT! Us fuel pump rebuild shops can't keep up as it is lol! Some say it's good for business, but it's not the good kind of business. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: JW in MO
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 4:23pm
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When i saw this post I thought, What the Hell? It was posted to spark a fire, hence the juvenile name calling, “because you don’t believe what I believe.” It was not posted to convince anyone of anything, just separate “believers,” and “nonbelievers.” There’s enough of that crap happening in today’s world, move on. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 4:36pm
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JW The anti bio fuel folks blow my mind. Why would you be against something uses commodities and in turn helps prices because you can’t maintain your system. Every bushel that gets consumed is a good thing. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 5:34pm
Politics is downstairs, so, No comment... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 6:00pm
Why is this political ?? And you DID comment
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Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 6:15pm
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I remember as a young lad, taking apart carbs for stuck needle, plugged jets and corrosion. That was the '60's, "pure gas" era. I remember oil companies advertising that their gas is cleaner. The "we're the rocker arm assembly, assembly, and we don't like dirt" Mobile jingle is still in my head. That was an ad for their detergent gasoline, a little bit of a stretch to claim it will make your rocker arm valve assembly happy. It is on YouTube. I think when the ethanol first came out, it loosened up a lot of gunk and caused problems. And maybe some fuel system materials were not resistant to the ethanol. They hated it at the marinas. As they charged big bucks to do fuel tank/system clean-outs. Today, I don't have many problems, but I only have 12 gas powered things. But if I were to ask the local small engine mechanic how the ethanol is effecting the engines he would tell you about the junk gas and show me carbs all messed up. Which to me is just like 1969, in my experience. It could be the early users of E10 were near the corn growing areas, and the farmers had to be happy with a new market for their corn. But when they banned the MTBE additive, ethanol became the substitute, so it went nationwide. So perhaps more scrutiny. Yeah, I would be interested to read a Dave Kamp original White Paper on the matter. |
Posted By: cdreb
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 6:54pm
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So a thought, we don,t let it sit long since it is a production application . we mine gypsum 600 ft below the surface,,, all the mining equipment runs on bio diesel,,, we had to change fuel lines,,,, thousands of gallons per month.. ------------- B,C,5020,D17,(2)-190XT's,220,D21,7060, Agco LT70 |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 7:29pm
I’ll summarize Ethanol voraciously absorbs water. There’s less energy per volume. Ethanol attacks materials used in fuel systems.
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Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2021 at 8:22pm
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In a few years it will be a moot point, when all gas engines are banned, and only electric powered is allowed. That should make for interesting conversation. |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 5:27am
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I can see it now, next big crisis, those electric powered things emit ozone gas, which is bad and we should tax it extra somehow... Maybe the bio parts of bio-diesel would be best used as bio-heating fuel. Simple. |
Posted By: Tom59
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 6:15am
| Everybody can do what they feel works best for them. I run 10% ethanol gasoline in ours cars, but in my small engines like garden tiller, zero turn mower, generator, pressure washer, and all 2 cycle engines I run straight gasoline. For the last fifteen or sixteen years I have not had an small engine in the shop for a not starting problem. Using straight gas seems to work for me, I in a high humidity region ( someone mentioned humidity) and don’t know if that plays a factor or not. All my small engines equipment is twenty years old or newer and maybe the design of the fuel system is better now than years ago now. But I of the school of thought “ if isn’t broken, don’t fix it”. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 6:52am
| I'm waiting for the all electric conversion kit for my WD-45. |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 7:22am
If my box of Corn Flakes is .50 cents higher because of a the corn diverted to fuel, how does that help me? Regardless of the issues that some people have using ethanol fuels, the industry itself is a massive government boondoggle. Yes, this does delve into politics, as most agriculture policies are political. ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 8:48am
ROFLMAO! High oil prices are causing significant increases in the largest
costs of food production — processing, packing and shipping each food
product to market. In fact, the value of corn is just a
tiny fraction of a product’s cost. And only a small segment of the food
market relies on corn as an input.
“A 14-ounce box of corn flakes costs about $2.97 to $3.50. “When corn
is $2 per bushel, a box of corn flakes includes about 2.2 cents worth
of corn. At $4 a bushel, the amount of corn in that cereal costs about
4.4 cents. If you took out the ethanol factor completely, food would
still cost more.” https://www.farmprogress.com/corn-prices-have-little-do-food-price-increases" rel="nofollow - https://www.farmprogress.com/corn-prices-have-little-do-food-price-increases ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 12:46pm
| Of biodiesel production,what percent is made from commodities which would help support (supposedly) farm prices? I'd bet it's less than you are led to believe. |
Posted By: Allis dave
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 3:34pm
| I live about 1 hour from a large biodiesel plant. They pay a higher basis than all the other elevators around. Nearly all of my family's soybean's go there. Even a lot of smaller elevators haul in there. The volume of soybeans that run through that place is amazing. 3 dumps accepting beans 24 hours a day year round with a line 24 hours a day in the fall. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 3:43pm
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I was told decades ago that the maker of the cardboard cereal box gets more than the farmer for his corn.....probably still true ?? ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 4:45pm
 to me and others who want none of it. It is sh!t fuel period.------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 4:59pm
| No Lonn, that’s a methane digester you’re thinking of. |
Posted By: Lars(wi)
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 5:04pm
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So people are trying to claim all the btu’s it takes to plant corn, the tilling, fertilizer, harvest, haul the corn, the btu’s to dry the corn, then store it, then eventually re-hydrate it, then the btu’s to heat it to ferment it, process it, the btu’s to haul the ethanol to fuel terminals where its blended with gasoline, that takes less btu’s than drilling and refining crude oil? ------------- I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science. |
Posted By: AC/DC
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 6:40pm
| My diabetic friend told me he can't eat too much corn because of the starch in it, which turns into sugar. So,personally, I don't put it in anything if I can help it. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 8:11pm
Well I thought about the "give up your soul for a buck" pro bio crap fuel control freaks too. You can keep it and quit promoting that  to me and others who want none of it. It is sh!t fuel period.Lonn... i hate it when you beat around the bush... tell me what YOU REALLY THINK !! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2021 at 8:25pm
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 6:53am
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I don't know, I rebuild an awful lot of Carburetors for customer's, and I can tell ya first hand that since Ethenol has been around, the insides of the these Carburetor's whether they've been sitting or in service always have muck in them from the ethenol fuel. It definitely wasn't like that back in the 60's and 70's when I was rebuilding Carburetor's back then. At least around in these parts. My own experience with my small engines running ethenol in them whether its mixed for the 2 strokers or GT's, never had stuck valves, gummed up carbs and muck in the tanks like recent years. For the 2 stroke equipment that I have like the leaf blower, weed wacker, etc, I've been running the 50.1 premix fuel you buy at the box stores, and after a couple tank fulls of that run through that equipment, those engines rip now. No ethenol in that fuel and 93 octane. The GT's I add some Seafoam in the tanks to keep the valves from sticking. I guess some of you guys are just lucky you don't have the problems like some of us other dudes. I'm not sure about the humidity factor either, but ethenol doesn't work round' here for me... Steve@B&B ------------- 39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife |
Posted By: garden_guy
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 3:33pm
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I run standard 87 octane up to 10% ethanol gas in pretty much everything. I can let the tractors sit for 6 months (winter) and fire them up with a fresh battery charge in spring no worries. I just store them with Sta-Bil and sometimes Seafoam, and it's worked for years. The only things I get ethanol free for are: 1) My STIHL chainsaw 2) My Snowblower And I just buy 89 or 90 octane, whatever I can find for that.
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Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 5:48pm
At last some experience and knowledge... I have been running camp stove fuel and premix in all 2 stroke, and straight in infrequently used 4 stroke equipment, for years, now. $9/gallon vs $6/qt, for the premix stuff. If you can find Naptha, its the same as camp stove fuel, but around here, its at least $5/gallon more than camp stove fuel. Buying the more expensive fuel is cheaper than rebuilding/replacing carbs, on this small equipment! The difference between me and the OP is that I didn't call him a nut, just because he doesn't agree with me... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: DaveSB
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 8:32pm
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I do believe that the humidity in different areas affect the fuel of today. I run ethanol fuel In every gas burner I have without problems, except for my 4 wheeler ATV, if I run ethanol In It I will be pulling carb and cleaning it every 6 months , it really gums it up. I can’t explain why my tractors and vehicles tolerate the ethanol, but my 4 wheeler just won’t run it. I buy 100% gas for it now and don’t have to worry about cleaning the carb. I also have Stihl chainsaws and they seem to run fine on ethanol. Just mentioned because someone else mentioned stihl saws, maybe that humidity thing again. But ethanol will plug my ATV carb up so bad it’s super hard to clean it all out and get it to run. ------------- 1948 C, 1953 CA, 1948 WD, 1961 D-17 Series 2 Diesel, 1939 WC, 1957 D14 |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 10:16pm
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I’m going to point out a few things. I have exclusively ran E10 in my CA for over 20 years now that I’ve owned it and almost as long in my Oliver 60. I have not had any carburetor problems on either tractor in all of that time. Ever since I got my D17D, it takes a year to burn a full tank in either of them. I do put Stabil in them. I have no doubt that some of the carburetor guys are seeing heavy deposits in carburetors, but I will bet my next paycheck that those carburetors sat YEARS to get that way without use. Those black deposits are what’s left when the volatile compounds are allowed to evaporate. Today’s gasoline and diesel are much more volatile on purpose to aid in atomization and cleaner combustion. Does alcohol attract water? Sure it does. When I need to verify alcohol content in gasoline that’s how I measure it, with water. It’s also one more reason for leaving the sediment bowl in place. A full fuel tank has far less moisture in it than a full one. That’s why the owners manual says fill the tank when you’re done to push out humid air to reduce condensation. I do get a chuckle out of the guys who say alcohol in fuel is the devil’s handiwork and in the next breath say Sea Foam is the greatest thing going. Sea Foam’s active ingredient is ALCOHOL combined with some light machine oil. My point is if you run your gasoline engine regularly, you can use E10 with no ill effects. If you don’t run them often, a preservative such as Stabil when used according to the label is very effective at preventing problems from stale fuel. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 10:24pm
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So one of my brothers has been running non ethanol in his D17 for years now. My cousin and I borrowed it ao rake hay in a field we share and I told cousin don't put gas in it. That it had more than enough gas in it for what we need it for. So he ends up putting gas in anyhow and it's that crap gas and so, since I was somewhat responsible for not making darn sure it had only good gas, I ended up draining it all a month and a half later including the carb. The plug in the carb already had a brown coating on it. It ran fine and started right up but it had that same crap I find in all carbs and fuel tanks using ethanol. Now I have to find a quick way to clean the fuel tank from that brown crud. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: GM Guy
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 10:45pm
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Talking to a few people involved in fuel transport, they say that there
is water "slugs" used to clear pipelines when they switch product, so
there is alot of water in fuel period. Myself, I understand the potential downfalls of biofuels, but when faced with the option of biofuels in an unmodified Allis Chalmers versus crushing said Allis for scrap and being forced to buy a Electric tractor to "go green" I'd rather use biofuels as a negotiating tool against the rabid environmentalists and keep my old junk. Myself and my personal experience, an old lawn tractor stored outside 365 days a year and rarely ran is the only thing I have trouble with, and I mostly blame my storage method. Old trucks that sit like an old winch truck and a grain truck I have had a little trouble with ethanol, but you guessed it, stored outside as well. Stored under a roof will solve most problems IMO. As far as diesel, I have never had biodiesel problems. In fact, I actively search it out, my old GM 6.5Ls run so much smoother with it, and I run Stanadyne Lubricity formula every tank, and most have had new Bosch injectors after I bought them, so IMO the smoothness of the B20 has to mean its burning completely and clean to get it to idle like it does. running "rougher" (still smooth, but not as smooth) on regular diesel cant be blamed on stuff like worn injectors, because at the time of the roadtrip they had less than 5K miles on them. So perfect fuel? No,but neither is modern diesel after 07 change from LSD to ULSD. Only option we have to calm down the environazis? IMO, yes. End of the world junk? Far from it. People that have terrible maintenance, or refuse to acknowledge their fuel handling and storage techniques might be deserving of blame, usually complain the loudest against biofuels. (guys so cheap they dump out dirty fuel filters and screw them back on, etc.) Embrace a little compromise and keep a seat at the table, or get kicked off the table and get told what to do by the remainder is what I see happening. We need to get our biofuels industry to talk up all the carbon sequestration and other "green" talking points that biofuels have to keep the current administration happy, and our old Allis' will live on. As far as the OP, a little less hornets nest wacking would probably get a friendlier response... ;) ------------- Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine. If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help. |
Posted By: GM Guy
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 10:49pm
I cant speak for the efficiencies in the corn belt, but here in the dry High Plains our grain almost never has to be dried (you have to hurry with harvest to keep corn above 10 percent...) and there are many cattle feedyards within a close radius, so the distillers grain is usually hauled wet direct to the feedyard. Cows drink less water when consuming the WDG, so IMO that should be a factor as well. So in regards to our local ethanol plant, I'd say it is quite efficient. ------------- Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine. If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 10:51pm
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2021 at 10:57pm
------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 5:54am
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Maybe the best compromise would be to mandate all those growers that want to sell their products to make ethanol and bio diesel be required to use 100% bio diesel or E85 to in their tractors and trucks to grow and transport those crops.
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Posted By: rw
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2021 at 6:11am
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'Gasahol' came to our town in the late 70's and was available at the co-op feed mill/farm store. I needed fuel for the WD to make it home with a load of feed in the auger wagon because I didn't fill up at the on farm tank kept full by Amoco distributor. On the way home sheets of brown varnish were floating around and clogging things up. That day I learned how to get the clogs worked though by manipulating mixture screws, sediment bowl shut off valve, and choke plate. Made it home but manipulated on it several times over the next few weeks but I don't think the carb has ever been off the engine. Runs without trouble or manipulation today. I switched to the pre-packaged two cycle gas because I use so little and a gallon of home mixed would be ok when new - but after a few months sitting, engines just would not run well unless I dumped the old made new and worked new fuel into the system. |