Agco orange color?
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17652
Printed Date: 24 Aug 2025 at 3:28pm
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Topic: Agco orange color?
Posted By: dbounds
Subject: Agco orange color?
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 10:37am
| I was at the Farm Progress Show in Boone Iowa this week and while looking at the new Super 6 & 7 combine I mentioned my displeasure with dropping the orange color and not fond of red and the rep there said that the company has been thinking again of offering Agco's in orange as an option. He said it wasn't a "dead" issue and urged me to write the company to consider this. He said the midwest part of the US is starting to be heard. Any one else heard this? Doyle |
Replies:
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 12:16pm
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It's the first I've heard of it but I sure hope you are right! ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: Justin Widlund (IA)
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 12:22pm
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That sounds much better than the response I got from a lady behind the AGCO merchandise counter. After I stated my thoughts, she matter-of-factly said "Time will tell". Let your opinions be known to the reps! |
Posted By: gleaner1
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 12:46pm
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Yes we need to step up to the plate people, i have made numerous calls, expressed my concern to many dealers also, we do farm with modern equipment, lots of Agco stuff, but have recently switched tractors to CNH because of the whole massey thing, at the very least you all need to call Agco answers, 1-877-525-4384, its just an out sourced answering service for Agco but they do relay all messages to them, good or bad Lets not give up on this. make the call ------------- ALLIS CHALMERS "The color is orange" |
Posted By: ScottinSWIL
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 4:13pm
| Last I heard at a local dealer meeting coming from an Agco rep was that the orange paint is a possibity but would have MF decals. I can't say that was a crowd pleaser. They also said even the Masseys were going to sport more Agco logos on them. Whether or not we can believe what is said is another story right now. They change their minds like the weather changes. Should of just called them all Agco and gave a choice of red or orange---see problem solved. I know then I would of had more confidence in them. |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 4:48pm
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The orange paint is encouraging, but the massey decals are a deal breaker. What part of "no massey ferguson" do they not understand? If we wanted massey decals on our farm machinery we would have been buying it that way all along. The corporation's name is AGCO. This feels like some kind of a coup d' etat, and it never should have happened. ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: 620Doc
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 7:33pm
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My turn to stir this pot. What if we combine this new rumor with the news of a few weeks ago about Allis-Chalmers Energy being bought out and the possibility of aquiring the AC name and logo? ------------- Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a banquet. |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 7:38pm
That would be way beyond wonderful, probably unlikely, but it would be a great way for AGCO to save face on this whole debacle!
Wouldn't it be great to get some kind of a response from someone in the know at AGCO? ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
620Doc wrote:Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 9:46pm
| If there is to be ANY hope, tell all of your dealer friends and any customers to support the new Gleaner, but ABSOLUTELY do not purchase or support any MF or Challenger products. The worst thing dealers can do now is to order Massey tractors, that is capitulation. Versatile offers a solid option for the current dealer base without supporting MF. To borrow a Nancy Reagan phrase: "Just say No" (to bad influences). |
Posted By: ScottinSWIL
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 10:34pm
| I have talked to several Agco company reps that say that they have Agco orange tractors back on their family farms, which tells me even though they might not have maybe grown up on orange, they talked dad ,brother or uncle into trying one. They compare to the new Deeres as far as efficiency goes which is true, the fuel savings and CVT on the new Agco's is top of the line, but they need to get them out on the farms and the MF badge probably was not the best way to go out and try and blow the doors off of JD. I am real happy to see the progress on the new S series Gleaners, which is some good news from the Agco camp. It just still hard to think after all these years of running orange of various "orange shades" and names that now suddenly MF is what we have left????? Blows my mind. Challenger will be lucky to survive the whole fiasco. |
Posted By: AllisChalmers37
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2010 at 10:40pm
That might make me get my first completely new tractor. Not just new to me either. ------------- 1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500 |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2010 at 12:00am
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Owner of Isaacson Implement in MN told me the same thing about being able to order orange tractors when I was visiting their show spot and the Steele County Fair. I didn't think to ask about the AGCO name. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: AllisChalmers37
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2010 at 12:12am
If they could keep that color and perhaps put an AC logo and name on that... Whew! I might need a moment to myself. LOL!------------- 1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500 |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2010 at 4:56pm
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I'm getting a Vermeer baler because AGCO dropped orange. I'm either getting a Vermeer disc mower or Kuhn because AGCO dropped the orange. I'm getting a Kuhn tedder because AGCO dropped the orange. I'm looking at trading in my AGCO tractor on a McCormick because AGCO dropped orange. I got a Kuhn rake a couple of weeks ago because AGCO dropped orange. I was in the AGCO dealer a week ago getting prices on New Holland hay equipment and the other salesman got a call from a guy and I heard him say stuff about orange being gone. People ask about it and it makes a difference. I told the salesman that if AGCO still made orange tractors this would be a no brainer that I'd be getting Hesston equipment. Now I look around. I think what this, and the whole Wall Street bailout thing, has done for me is that I give a huge positive to family owned companies now and throw that in when comparing equipment. Both Vermeer and McCormick are family owned. BTW - I said this for the last few years. They need to make color an option for the AGCO tractor not the MF tractor. Give customers a choice of Red/Orange/Oliver Green/MM Challenger yellow. It's an AGCO tractor with different colors and stickers. How hard could it be? An MF with different colors is not acceptable to me. BTW pat II - I was at Boone too but didn't even go by the AGCO spot. I was within 50 feet of it but only just laughed at all the yellow Lexion combines that CAT dealers will sell in front of the yellow AGCO ones. I didn't go by the AGCO site, in Boone, because the AGCO site at the Wisconsin farm show didn't have a single orange tractor in it so I didn't even talk to them. It disgusts me too much. |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2010 at 9:34pm
| If they were to get the rights to the AC name now that AC Energy is disappearing, they could offer even a limited edition AC each year. Something like that would serve to keep people with Agco. |
Posted By: clovis
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2010 at 11:31pm
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This whole ordeal smacks of some over paid marketing 'genius' who decided, while sitting in her pajamas in a hotel getting a pedicure, somewhere in Hilton Head, that "brand consolidation" was the way to go to fight Deere. You see, her boyfriend of 12 years, once heard a 14 second sound byte on MSNBC that one reason Toyota sold so well in the U.S. is because they just have one brand name. "Hey, wait a minute!!!! Let's just drop 80 years of solid consumer brand recognition, 80 years of quality, 80 years of service, 80 years of being a leader in the ag industry, drop half of our dealer network...and we'll just go with one color and one name. I'll surely get a bonus for this idea, and another bonus for building market share." I've been around enough corporate marketing people and the corporate world to know that they really are that dumb. Just change something for the sake of change...that marketing person will be marketing for some other company in just a few years anyway. This will just add to their resume. "I successfully created and executed the brand consolidation of AGCO tractors to just one brand name and one color, which lead to an increase in sales of 22%. After managing and creating several marketing studies, most housewives said they liked red over orange, and they could identify with the Massey name better than Allis." I'd end this post with 'LOL', but we all know it is sickeningly true. |
Posted By: AllisChalmers37
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2010 at 11:48pm
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It's scary how true that is. ------------- 1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500 |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2010 at 12:29pm
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I have yet to hear a legitimate excuse as to why it was dropped in the first place. Anything I've heard hasn't held any water. Saying they could buy a MF orange just contradicts one of the things they said was the reason they dropped it. I think their finding out the reality of the issue is that they are loosing a lot of business from this decision and they need every drop they can get in a down economic time. It's moronic. |
Posted By: AllisChalmers37
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2010 at 1:06pm
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I had to put my argument from another topic on this one also.
The way I see it AGCO bought out Massey and the only way AGCO could come up with that kind of money would be to have a sucessful thing going for them. No struggling company could afford to buy out another. I thought that when a company bought another out they would usually take the best of both products and put them togeather. Instead AGCO bought MF, who couldn't come close to touching the loyality and brand recognition that AGCO has, and has decided to drop their big, sucessful company name and products in order to back up the worst of the two. If I ran AGCO I would try something different. I would do something to try to suit everyone's likes.
My Suggestions:
1. Allis-Chalmers line painted PERSIAN ORANGE and uses correct logos that we would buy the rights for from AC Energy.
2. Oliver line all are meadow green. Uses the oliver shield logo.
3. White line is grey and uses WFE logo.
4. Minnieapolis-Moline line. Yellow and MM modern machinery logo.
5. Massey Harris should be a special edition Massey Ferguson.
6. MF, and Challenger should be left the same.
I know it is possible to do this. AGCO doing this would be like getting a car or truck with a different paint job and different decal packages.
People who grew up on AC's, Oliver's, MM's, or another AGCO heritage tractor would remember the good old days with their old tractor and would come alot closer to buying a new one. The old AGCO companies all had good reputations and were all key parts of American history. Maybe someday AGCO will take the classic names off of the shelf and actually listen to some reason and use them. Case IH now badges some of their tractors as Farmalls and now McCormick is back along with New Holland's 8N. It seems Everyone except AGCO has gotten the message ------------- 1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500 |
Posted By: 620Doc
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2010 at 3:54pm
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AC37, I think Farm Pro is currently marketing a line of 3 point implememts using the Minneapolis-Moline name and logo. ------------- Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a banquet. |
Posted By: AllisChalmers37
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2010 at 5:54pm
UGGGGH!!!!
This makes me want to see some new Allis-Chalmers ag equipment soooo bad!!! ------------- 1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500 |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2010 at 10:58pm
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Allis Chalmers 37. The only problem I see is that most of those lines you mention have been gone too long. Even AC has been gone for 25 years.
MM, Oliver, and Cockshutt disappeared in 74 I believe. 36 years ago.
MH disappeared in the 60s. about 45 years ago.
White is pretty recent.
Most of today's decision makers have never bought one of the old brands so have to special feeling for them.
Sad but true.
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 5:39am
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If AGCO could get the rights to the Allis-Chalmers name and offer a limited edition Allis that might be the "fig leaf" they need to save face.
The PR can goes like this "Well now that we CAN get the Allis name, that changes things a bit!"
AGCO can you hear me now!!???
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Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 9:24am
| TomYaz. Good thinking. It could be a game changer. |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 10:05am
I guess I just repeated what you said earlier...Hey great minds think alike LOL!
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Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 11:29am
| Great another proud classic name put on some cheap POS. |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 5:03pm
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Nathan, in case you haven't noticed, Agco tractors have been Massey based since 1997.
A lot of people on this site have layed there money down for them and have been pleased with them up until Agco dropped orange.
Do you actually buy farm equipment yourself?
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Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 5:28pm
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If Nathan was referring to the recent lawn mowers that were badged AC, there's validity to his comment. It looked to me like that is exactly what happened there. The thought was good, but it was not exactly a product that will stand the test of time. ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 5:50pm
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Nathan, if you are referring to the lawn mowers then I understand 100% where you are coming from. |
Posted By: gleaner1
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 8:50pm
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OK guys, now what do you have against the new AC branded mowers built by Simplicity, I bought one last year, and there about as good as, or better than any brand of mower this day and age. What brand are you guys running? ------------- ALLIS CHALMERS "The color is orange" |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 9:09pm
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My issue is that virtually all of the riding lawn mowers built today are throw-aways, and some of them with similar quality to the AC/Simplicity are significantly less expensive than the $1700-$2000 for the AC/Simplicity.
I have a early 1970's Wards (Gilson) 12 HP, cast iron upright B&S engine, manual shift, 48" cut that I can't kill. I've rebuilt the deck a few times, but the mower is virtually bullet proof.
I just don't look at the AC mower as carrying on the AC tradition of competitive quality, It's probably as good a riding mower as others out there today, but not the best value.
NOTE: This is my opinion. Your opinion may vary. ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: Rick of HopeIN
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 9:13pm
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I love my AC tractors but my previous, newest was a 314 Hydro and I was not fond of many features of that one. That said, I have heard people that had good luck with them.
------------- 1951 B, 1937 WC, 1957 D14, -- Thanks and God Bless |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 9:19pm
Not anymore, the new Allis Gleaner COmpany tractors are Fendt transaxles, Sisu engines, an outsourced cab. Not hardly MF. Only relation to MF is they are built in a former MF assembly plant. Since 1994 it has been an Allis Gleaner COmpany plant, as MF is no longer in business. Just a trademark owned by the Allis Gleaner COmpany.
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Posted By: Oldoug
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 10:31pm
| The ALLIS CHALMERS farm equipment company is gone people. It exsited between the years of 1914-1985, it's over, done, AGCO is not bringing it back they've spent the last ten years trying to remove any connection to ALLIS-CHALMERS in the company they can, AGCO-ALLIS, orange paint, etc. AGCO doesn't want to be know as what ALLIS-CHALMERS once was or what was left of it, they want to be know as there own company even though we feel that it is the wrong decision. I don't want to see the ALLIS-CHALMERS name put on some tractor built in France anyway that's not ALLIS-CHALMERS. ALLIS-CHALMERS lives on in the old tractors and equipment that we restore and bring back to life everyday not in some decal printed today and stuck on a tractor that is the same for three or four different brands. |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 12:28am
| I drive an MTD with a two legged one manpower drive system! |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2010 at 2:11am
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OUG gets my point. AGCO aint AC. Let the fallen rest in peace. When someone says they got a old AC it should ever be known as a 1914-1985 model. In 20 years from now someone will have to distinguish between some proud old iron or a yuppy feel good lawnmower. My feeling is similar to GBACFan. I think there is about a $300 surcharge for that AC sticker.You guys that spent money on them lawnmowers may love them. Good for you.Your money your choice.
To me they are a disgrace to the good AC name.
This Minneapolis - Moline deal reaks of the same stench to me.
Kinda of a identity theft issue. Farm equipment style.
NOTE: This is my opinion. Your opinion may vary.
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Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 10:58pm
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I know that AC is gone. However, I want to own and operate on my farm the nearest relatives of the once proud company. My other tractors are orange. It is a bit of a trademark for my operation. AGCO is a direct descendant of the Allis Chalmers company. Massey is not. An orange painted AGCO produced tractor with the AGCO decals on it is/was an acceptable substitute. Red with MF decals just ain't going to cut it.
I don't want to do just like all of my neighbors and run JD equipment, I like to show a little more originality than that. Case-IH has good products, but that would involve taking my business from a dealer that I know and trust and that had nothing to do with the decision made by AGCO. The New Holland line is nearly identical to CIH, except they are butt-ugly. The Versatile machines appeal to me, and will most likely be the direction I go when it is time to purchase new equipment.
I know that placing an AC decal on the French built tractors wouldn't be the same as the Milwaukee built tractors, but it would at least give some credit to the TRUE heritage of AGCO. It might possibly be the opportunity that AGCO is looking for to reverse direction without actually admitting that Richenhagen made a very poor decision. Either way, I hope that this poor decision is reversed, whether the tractors are designated as AGCO or Allis Chalmers. Anything designated as a Massey is not welcome here. ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 7:02am
Nope, if that were true they would stay orange and stay AGCO aka Allis-Gleaner Company. They are taking a dead horse called Massey Ferguson aka Massive F........ well you know. Anyway they are killing their own baby and digging MF from the grave to call their own and chunking AGCO in that hole. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: DonDittmar
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 7:14am
------------- Experience is a fancy name for past mistakes. "Great moments are born from great opportunity" 1968 D15D,1962 D19D Also 1965 Cub Loboy and 1958 JD 720 Diesel Pony Start |
Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 7:21am
Folks, good people, you are missing something here. When I go to YouTube, or am scrounging info and land on a European site, that MASSEY name has a LOT of buyer loyalty over there. Those people go nuts over that brand. Its like Harley does in Japan, or Buick does in China. I am not arguing for or against anything, but it serves to understand the market that AGCO sees in their global portfolio. Given the ownership history of Allis Chalmers, Massey and AGCO, it shouldn't be surprising then that they have a Euro-centric bias. Do not forget that Ford also invested heavily in not only tractors, but automobiles in England and Germany, going clear back to the late 50's early sixties. |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 8:52am
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For better or worse, Massey is still the biggest tractor brand in the world. I believe CNH combined outsell them but that is with two different brands.
Running down MF does not build up AC.
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Posted By: BobH
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 9:04am
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Spud,Amen!!!!!!
------------- Why do today what you can put off til tomorrow. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 9:26am
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The people that started AGCO and brought along Gleaner and the "AGCO Allis" tractor are all from the old days of Allis Chalmers. The intent was to recreate Allis Chalmers as the Deutz fiasco did not work as this current plan will not work. There are eery parallels to this model, Deutz wanted to end Gleaner, same as Richenhagen, but thanks to some selfless and passionate individuals in the company, it is still here. Globally, MF is large, but not here. Should AGCO ignore the most important and STABLE ag market in the world? Results since the beginning of the year confirm what many of us predicted: tractor sales cut in half, since Hesston was dropped and hay equipment painted MF red, sales in half, AGCHEM now migrating to Challenger, sales nosediving etc.
Regarding AC, seems JD and Case tractors are not the same as they were in 1985 either. Case is now going to Iveco engines in magnums, many JD's are built in Europe etc. AC and Gleaner is AGCO's roots and heritage, that is what it was founded upon, not MF or the currently imploding Challenger model. Many of us have been vindicated on this subject - facts are facts and the market is proving that! We don't care what the world is buying. This is still supposed to be America, at least thats the way some of us still see it!
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Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 9:33am
| Dude, its a corporation, not a country. |
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 10:05am
| It's so simple....the vendor wants to be a player in the buyers market...but doesn't offer what the buyer wants...good luck with that!Buyer don't care who the vendor thinks they are. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 11:37am
And a corporation should be responsible to its shareholders as well, by providing products and services that customers want to make a profit; not exactly what is currently happening, Dude!
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Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 11:56am
And a share holder should be intelligent enough to invest in a company that does just that. Customers are wise enough to spend their money on products that answer their needs - shareholders have no excuse. Sitting there, complaining that a company is neither providing what YOU want, or performing as YOU expect is nothing short of assinine, and it belongs in the boardroom or your bedroom, but not here. It's a business, not a religion. |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 12:08pm
So what your saying is no corporation should be criticized publicly?
No bad words about AGCO should be utterred here?
WTF is that?
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Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 12:27pm
Really? Where did I say that? Here, let me speak plainly - there's a forum for politics: http://allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=5&title=politics - http://allischalmers.com/new/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=5&title=politics Excellent place to vent your spleen. There's a huge difference between opining on a particular bit of news/gossip and hijacking a topic for political posturing. I have no problem with somebody beating a dead horse - even if it isn't their dead horse. But for cryin' out loud - even the carcass is gone. |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 12:36pm
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"Really? Where did I say that?" Ummm, right here:
"Sitting there, complaining that a company is neither providing what YOU want, or performing as YOU expect is nothing short of assinine, and it belongs in the boardroom or your bedroom, but not here."
Perhaps my reading comprehension is bad but I took "complaining that a company" ... "belongs in the boardroom or your bedroom, but not here." kinda means "Dont complain about AGCO on allischalmers.com" but hey maybe Im just not as smart as you and cannot understand the nuance of your prose.
As for politics, AGCO isnt a political figure...so dont see why talking about AGCO belongs there. And this thread is and has remained about AGCO Orange(or lack thereof), so not sure where I see "hijacking" going on.
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Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 12:50pm
Politics is politics. It exists in Congress, in church, in boardrooms the Rotary and in pulling clubs. And choosing to spin what I said - is politics. I just stated where on allischalmers.com politics and AGCO belonged (in my opinion) and you very handily spun that. Yup, this has degenerated into politicking, and you are quite good at it. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 1:20pm
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CJohnS,
This is a big deal to many of us who farm professionally with orange tractors (soon to switch) and silver combines. This WILL impact us financially as resale values WILL be affected! Regarding shareholders, they typically depend on analysts to produce reports regarding corporations direction and viability. Unfortunately, they all seem to remain quiet. I have personnally spoken to one of AGCO's Wall Street analysts and his comments to be off record were: "Martin has no clue what He is doing in agriculture" on quote. Got the warm and fuzzies yet? What about all of the eggs in Challenger? Doesn't look like they will make it to 10 combine sales this year despite all of the millions of marketing dollars thrown at them. Whereas, little marketing dollars by comparison were invested in the orange tractor and it still outsold the other 2 in NA. Just because this clown has a CEO title doesn't mean he is competent. Get Jim Collins excellent book "How the Mighty Fall" where the road is littered with so-called "smart" CEO's. This book is like an autobiography of Richenhagen.
If the current strategy were working and MF and Challenger sales were above year ago levels, I would be the first one to accept it and move on, facts are the opposite is happening. If AGCO has no connection to AC as some proclaim on this forum, where do you buy parts for older AC tractors? Last time I checked, our former AC dealer is AGCO. And no, some of us are principled and not a member of the "cave in club", We believe in something rather than just accept whatever is shoved our way. Global companies become successful by operating competently in different countries collectively. Why doesn't GM sell Opels in Americe? Think that would be a great success? Its called understanding your market and while MF's are super popular in Europe, they never will be here and outside of the Challenger tracked tractors in the US, the MFD's (Challenger) are confusing to most producers here and have frankly tanked in sales. Most CAT dealers just want to sell Lexion combines and tracked tractors as that is their niche and understanding since CAT does the engineering and provides components for this tractor.
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 1:30pm
So debating who is the best/worst farm tractor company, the best hay baler, etc is "politics" too and should go in the politics section where thet talk about carbon credits and Koran burning...ok...
Really? So how else WAS I to take it? Please explain.
In your original thread you said complaining about AGCO doesnt belong "here". You didnt differentiate between subforums ala tractor talk and politic talk. Absent that clarification, "here" would mean the entire site.
And stating that talking about a TRACTOR company in anything other than glowing terms belongs in the POLITICS forum where we talk about Democrats and Republicans is truly "assisnine" as you put it. Dont bash the TRACTOR company AGCO on the TRACTOR forum, take it to the politics forum where we talk about Obama. Ok that makes sense. Glad your not a moderator.
ok squirt whatever..... |
Posted By: GlenninPA
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 1:39pm
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Having an opportunity to sit fairly far up in a corporation, I can tell you that one of my first illusions shattered upon arriving there, was the one that ALL the people at the top of a company really know what they are doing when making some of these decisions. Some do, but I have seen that more and more that do NOT. The second illusion shattered was the one that, if you worked hard and did a good job, you could expect to be rewarded. What I have discovered is that life is not fair, and there are a lot of people getting rewarded that DON't deserve it, and there are an equal or greater amount of people who deserve it, but don't get it.It's not fair, but it IS life.
You cannot assume that, just because a person holds some position of responsibility, they are competent. Competence has to be proven.
Judging from the results quoted above, the board of directors of AGCO ought to be taking a hard look at Mr. Richenhagen.
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Posted By: GlenninPA
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 1:44pm
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Tom,
When you have more than 2 people, you have politics.
This is what I took away from my freshman course in Political Science in college.
Technically, CJohnS MI is correct in that respect. However, in my opinion, the Political Forum here is not so all encompassing. If it were, we could never have a Chevy, Dodge, Ford truck discussion over in the Varmint Forum!
LOL
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 3:15pm
Yes of course. I think we all know, with the exception of CJohnS perhaps, that the "political forum" was meant for "Politics" with a capital "P" i.e. govermental/societal issues, and not for the "politics" of things like your favorite beer or AGCO.
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Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 3:45pm
I'm an exceptional guy Tom. |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 4:35pm
No doubt!
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Posted By: ScottinSWIL
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 8:23pm
| As an owner of a two Agco tractors along with several older AC's, I too like orange. I bought the new DTb series because honestly it is one of the best machines on the market now as far as the CVT and fuel effiecency goes. I would have said no if the MF version was our only choice. I wish Agco would have been more bold and used their name AGCO on their entire lineup with whatever color and quit the uncertainity. I reallly doubt this is the end of it all. Consolidating might have been necessary, but the MF badge IMO was the wrong track. I normally do not buy new so I guess I will be in the used market for some time to stay with orange. We are probably one of the few left in our neighborhood left with orange as the main machines for getting the work done. I have a JD dealer 3 miles from the farm but have never jumped on that wagon totally yet. These newer Agco tractors are not cheap machines and just for some to say "big deal" do not understand what it is to throw down 100 to 200K on a tractor and have to worry what kind of effect these company decisions will have later on resale or trade in value. Agco can compare all day how superior the new MF is to JD, but bottom line is they have to put them on the farms to prove their worth. |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 9:01pm
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I agree, the massey may compete with the JD's on every level but if they don't have a loyal customer base they still won't sell. In my neighborhood I honestly can't think of one massey owner within a 30 mile radius, but there are still Allis tractors virtually everywhere. I know it isn't that way all over the country but it is around here. It seems this decision by Agco created a polarity within their own brand network, you either love massey and challenger or you hate them. I never cared much for massey before this debacle but I did not hate the brand, now I do, just because of the way Agco shoved it in our face.
------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: AllisChalmers37
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 9:06pm
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They probably see this forum and laugh at us for actually having common sense. I think any one of us could tell them that the AGCO name and the orange paint sold better and they wouldn't believe us until they filed bankrupt. ------------- 1937 WC, 1950 CA, 1959 D14, 1967 190XT, 2006 Ram 3500 |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 9:09pm
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That's the problem with common sense, it's not very common. ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: dbounds
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 10:56pm
| Well I started this mess and I'm almost sorry for doing it. I, like most of you am very passionate about my orange tractors and will continue to urge all dealers and company reps to keep the collor. I own a MF yellow chalenger and like it very much. But I still wouldn't have bought it in red. I also know AGCO isn't the AC's that I campain on the track or farms most of my ground but I did put faith behind the AGCO name and when they get old enough to buy will probably have one. I hope the orange lives on forever in what ever form but I will probably never see red on my farm. Doyle |
Posted By: clovis
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 11:15pm
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You don't see any new orange tractors in our parts, and rarely do you see a red tractor, unless it is an antique Farmall. Nearly everything you see in our area is JD. Then again, I'm not driving around the countryside taking polls of who farms with what. I cannot imagine that AGCO new decision is going to change any farmer away from green. I still cannot understand why they haven't pushed harder in our area. It is amazing how much marketing they could do with very little cash outlay. If they have marketed their tractors at all, I haven't seen it.
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Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2010 at 1:11am
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clovis, where are you?
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Spud
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2010 at 1:20am
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I agree with you Clovis that it is puzzling why they don't push their tractors harder. With or without orange. Why not come into an area and backstop the dealer for a year and get some tractors out there. Get them out in the fields even if it means losing money on 12-24 deals. If the tractor is that good then it will sell itself after people see that it is a good machine.
Go on a Deere hunt!
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Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2010 at 10:17am
The statements previous to this line may be true, I do not know. But this statement is not. AGCHEM may be painted the Challenger Yellow and carried by Challenger dealers. But the sales have not been tanking. The 2010 model year RoGators won many show awards; was very well accepted by customers and the Jackson factory was building like crazy. Now with the new drive package in the 2011 RoGator models and the CVT in the TerraGators; I haven't seen this much excitement in the market about AGCHEM in years.
Not sure if you where referring to the Lexion only when you said that CAT does the engineering. The engineering department in Jackson, MN (AGCO) is responsible for the engineering of the tracked tractor. Yes, there is a CAT engine and drivetrain in them. But the engineering done to combine all the components and create the machine is not done by CAT at all.
I am not trying to pick on you nowversatile, just wanted to comment on these.
Steffensen
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Posted By: ScottinSWIL
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2010 at 12:36pm
| The lack of dealers for Ag-Chem will hurt. Only one dealer in the state of IL. My local custom applicator used to run RoGators but went to all Case-IH because lack of service and knowledge coming from people more interested in making money on construction equipment. Giving the whole dealer network in the state to one dealer seems crazy. |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2010 at 4:06pm
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"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
Reinhold Niebuhr ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2010 at 6:51pm
| Very nice quote, a bunch of us believe deeply in very thing. |
Posted By: DREAM
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2010 at 7:18pm
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Just to put in my two cents here.
It is my belief that Allis-Chalmers has been out of the agriculture business since Dec 6, 1985.
Anything manufactured after that date is not the original. It would be the same as Ford (automotive division)being bought out by someone else and henceforth called Ford-xxx. It is not the same and will never be. Those holding on to the color for tradition are holding on to a memory, nothing more. Buy an AGCO product because it performs to your expectations and fits into your budget.
A new company called Allis Chalmers would not be the same. A new company called Allis Chalmers with the same principles as the old one would be nice, but may not be able to survive in todays economy. The economic principles of this country and globally have changed.
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2010 at 9:08pm
More than one here has made similar statements but that statement only speaks to Allis enthusiasts. What about a situation like my cousin is in. He owns AGCO orange tractors, AGCO New Idea and Hesston hay equipment and was going to trade soon from his CaseIH combine into a Gleaner. The change AGCO is making is robbing his trade in value on his AGCO equipment. For him forget Allis Chalmers. It's about AGCO orange tractors not Allis Chalmers cause as many have said, Allis Chalmers died a long time ago. Allis dying hurt a lot of AC owners financially. Don't you think the killing off of AGCO will do the same. I do. So forget Allis Chalmers and lets talk AGCO. Now does it make sense? ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: clovis
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2010 at 6:56am
I am in central Indiana. After posting the thoughts that "you don't see red tractors around here", I got to thinking. Actually, you do see a few red CIH tractors. My BIL, who owns a soil testing firm, said he can think of only one farmer that owns a MF. You would think that Agco would hit areas like ours, just as someone else said.
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Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 12:28pm
Engineering IS done by Caterpillar for tracked tractors. Contract engineers on loan from Caterpillar which AGCO pays are on site and do the engineering. FACT! Secondly, AGCHEM is migrating to Challenger, color was first step. Listen to the dictator, He has stated repeatedly "4 important brands" his words, not mine. It is also a fact that market share for sprayers is way down. Solid sources on that one, as well as seeing what COOPs and ag chemical dealers are buying. Yellow being replaced by green and red.
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Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 1:29pm
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Where are you getting the facts on below items?
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Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 2:11pm
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1. Toured Jackson facility and was introduced to engineering staff as CAT subcontracts. Was also pointed out in one of the Ag magazines when 4WD was introduced that AGCO was using CAT engineering for development. 2. Rock solid internal info., to the tune of minor panic at corporate, lots of nervousness regarding launch of upgraded sprayers to stop the spiral. |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 3:21pm
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Okay, please don't take this as an attack. 1. Sorry but your tour guide was wrong. I am a Design Engineer in Jackson that works mostly on the Rowcrop sprayers. But i also work closely with the tractor engineers and none of us are CAT contract engineers. I am sure this is the FACT. 2. Since I work with the local marketing teams on AgChem equipment everyday, I would have thought i had better information than a person outside the company. But sometimes engineering and marketing don't always speak the same language, and with that I am wrong. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 4:24pm
| Appreciate the update, I have always been one of the strongest supporters of AGCO throughout the years and previously AC. Some of my fondest memories are riding on C-II Gleaner combines as a child as well as driving home a new AC tractor in High school from the dealer. Unfortunately, as many here have posted and the market is saying, the current direction is misguided at best. Having had the pleasure of meeting Bob Ratliff and personnally talking to John Shumejda, Eddie Swingle and others, it is not likely these tremendous individuals would do the things to this company that this current jerk and his right hand gun-slinger Doug Griffin are doing. Market numbers are proving that, with tractor sales for AGCO NA down roughly half. Numbers for AEM just came out and the rest of the players in industry are up substantially. This just keeps proving our point over and over again. I visited HHD in Grand Island and walked by the AGCO lot on three occasions where two of the three times there were NOBODY close to the MF tractors and on the third trip, a younger child was in a cab of one tractor. Not the kind of excitement you would expect when corn is near $5/bushel (CBOT) or what was witnessed at Deere and CNH. I don't begrudge you for what you do, but I have good friends yet at the company and the spirit is not exactly jubilant. I wish all employees of the company the best and hope you can outlast this clown until new leadership comes into place that respects the market place and the traditions that make companies successful in their respective markets. |
Posted By: CJohnS MI
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 4:49pm
LOL! Is that what you call it? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 5:03pm
Lets here your professional opinion, expert!
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Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 8:13pm
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I bought a Vermeer baler last week. If AGCO didn't drop orange I wouldn't even have looked at them I just would've bought one of the autumn prime AGCO/Hesston ones sitting around still. In a sense I'm glad because I really like my baler and I like Vermeer as a company. I went down to their factory unannounced and they pulled a manager off duty to give us a tour. I then spent a couple of hours with two higher ups discussing balers and mowers. Can't see that happening at AGCO. Vermeer is a family owned company who cares about the customer. AGCO is a Wall Street owned company that cares nothing of the customer. As a related note I almost puked yesterday. I got a magazine and it had a double cover. The front one said something like once you go from orange to red you'll be seeing gold. I don't know who wrote that but the whole thing on that was ludicrous at best. How's it going Steffenson? |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 8:46pm
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Things haven't been too bad for me. Busy with life...Love this forum though! Have to spend at least a little time reading the politics section to get a laugh or two in. And the pictures of the machines that people share are simply amazing. Glad you found a baler you liked. I don't have anything to do with the Hesston side, so I can't comment on what is there. But I do understand why you would expand to looking at the different brand offerings available.
As for factory tours and getting to talk with people; I cannot comment on other sites within AGCO, but come on over to Jackson sometime. There is always someone to give tours and BS with about the equipment produced in Jackson. (even if you are not in the market to purchase) Sometimes even the plant manager takes part in the tours. The employees here are very proud of what they do and like to share it with people.
Steffensen
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Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 10:55pm
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I was at Husker Harvest Days on Tuesday. The only orange tractor was out in the field on a grain cart for the combine demonstration. Talked to some of the agco reps, and they were quite clear, that there will be no orange tractors. From what I gathered, the the top agco management feels this will be a smooth transition, and the "sheep" will just fall in line. |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 11:01pm
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There will be plenty of sheep that will go astry from AGCO IG ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 10:55am
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Steffensen, I'm sorry I spelled your name wrong. Good to hear things are going well. I pretty anal on stuff and when I looked into balers, particularly round, if you want a dry hay baler it's really between Hesston and Vermeer but AGCO is out of the question now. If you want a silage baler you should look European. I also just got a Kuhn rake and tedder but I don't think AGCO has anything like that anyway, at least that they make. I'm a small fish/sheep so I'm sure AGCO isn't fretting over me. IG - I don't know. It's hard to gauge outside of my world but I would say there going to loose at least some and in todays economy it might just be enough to break the camels back. |
Posted By: ScottinSWIL
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 9:08pm
| It is funny how the Agco reps seem to have a different story about what is going on. As I said in an earlier post they had the bright idea that someone would possibly want an orange painted MF. I guess they can tell people that when in reality they know most would not be happy with it. It is the name to me more than the color of red paint that is the problem. |
Posted By: Steve M C/IL
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 12:12am
| Name first,color second.Try selling a orange Massey and see who bites.Have better odds with a pink AGCO.Once again the "Law of the harvest"(a Biblical truth)comes into play.Reap what ya sow! |