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7060 Power Shift Has Me Puzzled

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Category: Allis Chalmers
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Printed Date: 25 Sep 2024 at 11:32am
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Topic: 7060 Power Shift Has Me Puzzled
Posted By: tthams
Subject: 7060 Power Shift Has Me Puzzled
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 10:06am
I was hoping someone change help me to understand what might be happening with our Allis 7060 power shift. I have roughly 15 hours on this tractor that I just bought and recently it started acting up. I have not changed or done anything different to the power shift at all.

I went to start it yesterday (Friday), and it worked great for around 5 minutes and then it wouldn't move. I checked the power shift filter and the oil around it was black, with microscopic specks of iron fillings. Yet when I pulled the dipstick to the oil under the seat it was fairly clear. 

I ended up changing the PS filter with one from AGCO, and everything was back to normal. I had corn stalk bales to get off the field on Friday, and I was shifting a lot in the low side. Once I shifted it to 6 gear and the rpms on the tractor went way down like the transmission brake was kicking in. I stepped in the clutch and drove it in 4th gear for a while. Eventually I got brave and tried it in 6th gear and it went fine. About an hour in using the tractor didn't want to move in any gear. I could shut the engine down and restart it within 15-20 second and it would run fine until I had to put it in reverse. It just stalled with the clutch out. I would shut the engine down and then start it up again and put it into reverse and it would work fine until I had to put it in reverse, and I would have to kill the engine and restart the process. There were a few times where it was a delayed reaction, but it would engage. I ended up parking it Friday.

I checked the transmission oil on Sat**day before I started it, and was again still normal hydraulic color, but a little on the dark side, and the low side of normal. I decided to add a little trans/hydraulic oil, and ended up over filling it a little and was going to drain some out when I got it out of the shop. I started it up and heard a whining sound coming from the PS valve body on the passenger side of the tractor. It started to drip oil from the valve body also. It was a very small amount, but this was a new leak. I also noticed the hose on the top of the PS canister (back right of the tractor) was whining. When I felt the top hose, you could feel it pulsing. 

I ended up taking the filter off again and the oil was again all black in the PS canister. I also noticed that rubber o ring seal was torn on plastic piece that sits on top of the PS filter. I thought this was odd because I just replaced the o-ring along with the filter because it was torn when I took the off the first time. So the rubber o-ring was torn again within 2 hours of use? I find that odd. 

Anyway I replaced the o-ring with another one, and the noise and the whining was instantly gone and everything worked great. We hauled manure and I only got two loads hauled before the whining in the PS valve body and the hose on the top of the PS filter came back. I parked it on Sat**day, and I have not looked at the PS filter to see if the o-ring in bad again. 

I won't be back to the farm until next weekend, and I am going to start with draining all the oil in the transmission and starting with a new filter (AGCO) and an o-ring again and see if that doesn't help.

My question is is there a suction screen somewhere on the PS transmission (not the filter in the canister) that might be getting plugged. It acts like it is not getting enough transmission fluids to drive the tractor. When I shut the tractor down, and then restart the tractor it works again which makes me think something in getting plugged, and the moment the pressure drops with the tractor off, the particles settle down. I am thinking new oil might help with the valves not sticking. I am also hoping to adjust the idler spool and the transmission brake and see if that doesn't help. I just haven't had the chance yet. The hose line to the Gerotor pump looks fine. 

Any reason why the transmission dipstick under the seat is not the dark colored oil coming from the filter canister? I am wondering if the clutches are slipping some creating the black color. Currently the clutch is almost completely out before the clutch engages maybe 80%. If I adjust the transmission brake wouldn't that also have some effect on the clutch engaging sooner? 



Replies:
Posted By: Ron(AB)
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 1:17pm
Seems like you have a tractor with +/- 6000 hours,   and never had a trans/hyd oil change... the trans is probably cooked!

Let's see what others have to say.


Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 2:14pm
Oh boy ron has great advise dont he,, 


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 2:23pm
I am hoping it is something simple. I took a chance on the tractor because it has signs that transmission work has been done to it. The hour meter on it shows 4600 hours. Here is a picture of what I mean. It looks like the they have been in the tractor recently. The PS filter says 4/19 when it was changed. 

uploads/21457/IMG_20201006_174514086.jpg




Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 2:24pm
 IMG_20201006_174514


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 2:27pm
Lets try posting the picture another way. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12T1BK7fP9RXvHV1FHoEslrJ89ce2M4gO/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/12T1BK7fP9RXvHV1FHoEslrJ89ce2M4gO/view?usp=sharing

There is writing on it showing work was done it is around 200 hours ago. 


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 2:33pm
Here is a picture of the transmission valve body. The paint is worn off around nuts on the valve body to indicate work done on it also. It have a new paint job on the tractor also in the last two years. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1npLv0U30eRPhk4J6ipYgQLvTVkmpx6Op/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1npLv0U30eRPhk4J6ipYgQLvTVkmpx6Op/view?usp=sharing




Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 4:51pm
Underneath the transmission, there is a square plate, if you unbolt that you will find a suction screen for the transmission pump. This may need cleaning. Be sure the transmission is drained first.


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 6:37pm
Drain the oil and inspect that screen. Sounds like some real dirty oil from a clutch valve sticking and then a clutch drags.


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 7:53pm
Thanks everyone for the reply. I am glad to know there is a mesh screen in addition to the filter. I am eager to get to the farm next weekend and check things out.


Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2020 at 8:22pm
I'm guessing when you remove the bottom plate , there is going to be a bunch of crap on it . If there is, might as well get it in the shop for a rebuild.           MACK


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2020 at 6:47am
I was kind of wondering that also Mack. I am still hoping it is something simple. When I went and looked at the tractor it has signs of of scheduled maintance being done. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19NnVc7IRTh4UgdffHw44lSu-AXFYUGKx/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/19NnVc7IRTh4UgdffHw44lSu-AXFYUGKx/view?usp=sharing

I was excited to find this info because it showed that the tractor had around 300 hours put on it on it in over 10 years. The PS filter canister had 4-19 written on the side of it also. 

I have around 15 hours on it and put it to work and it worked fine the first day pulling a 200 bushel wagon and moving bales off the field. Looking at everything, I wonder if that was the first time it saw work in a few years, and it stirred stuff up in the tranny. 

Then the next day I use it I get the problem. When the o-ring tore the second time there was a small chunk we couldn't find. I am wondering if it is caught in the screen. 

I took the first o-ring that was torn into town at a JD place and got 2 o-rings that looked real close to the torn one. I am planning on going to the AGCO dealer (farther away) and get a true o-ring meant for it. Part of me is wondering if the o-ring I put in there isn't the correct size. 

I just fine it odd that a tractor that was well kept would not of had the transmission fluids changed often. I am still thinking I need to do some adjustments on the clutch and the idler spool.  kept  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hVQFY6CVitz4yq_Zjvro3iACBpe2c3xE/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hVQFY6CVitz4yq_Zjvro3iACBpe2c3xE/view?usp=sharing




Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2020 at 7:09am
A cut Oring in the filter winds up in the valve body, not the suction screen.


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2020 at 8:00am
Would the small o-ring chunk get ground up eventually since it is rubber, or do I have to go in to the valve body and start digging around for it? What would you suggest Dr. Allis?


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2020 at 8:12am
I would expect to find it in the Power Shift valve body. Your first priority is checking the suction screen condition. That will determine the next step.


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2020 at 8:15am
Sounds good. I will try and take pictures of it this weekend of the screen and the condition, and share them. 


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 6:09am
Here are some pictures of the plate that I took off. I was not expecting to find two large chunks of wire.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zcB7arTeiEDFGmtBbd7b_nifMlH1m5b1/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zcB7arTeiEDFGmtBbd7b_nifMlH1m5b1/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QkjbewfhYJ6ls3gcAg4ZhC__6zLgDDj3/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QkjbewfhYJ6ls3gcAg4ZhC__6zLgDDj3/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tHTTNxrq7lnwgyD_ukJWiZqivyOsT_ZO/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tHTTNxrq7lnwgyD_ukJWiZqivyOsT_ZO/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JpZfDNJQ1zZuIHGjHBUFEwaFV4J5DL7E/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JpZfDNJQ1zZuIHGjHBUFEwaFV4J5DL7E/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12SeVQqwLr8ChuHxzzII7c5k-Qyi-vhcL/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/12SeVQqwLr8ChuHxzzII7c5k-Qyi-vhcL/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m2OQWiuTac1I6jjQEFiDmXqEA6GdQayG/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m2OQWiuTac1I6jjQEFiDmXqEA6GdQayG/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I6w4fU2Uc-6brmPM8-d1kJRmcar2jwGq/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I6w4fU2Uc-6brmPM8-d1kJRmcar2jwGq/view?usp=sharing

Any idea where that could have come from? Again it looks like they replaced the Gerotor pump because it is not the maroon belly color. Could it have failed and the pieces come from that.  


Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 6:44am
It is a ring from a planetary . Caused by a worn bushing that is NLA. Time for a complete rebuild.           MACK


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 6:49am
Clutch failure of some kind. Removal of the valve and a visual inspection will tell you which one. Get the tractor parked where you want to double split it before removing valve. Never seen oil that black before.


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 11:14am
Thanks for the bad news. Still frustrated that it worked so well for the first 15 hours I had it, and then this. I am not familiar with overhauling a transmission. 

Would the clutches slipping create the black oil or do you have better idea? The transmission dipstick was still clear before I dropped the oil which is still odd. 

Do anyone have an idea what I would expect to pay for a transmission overhaul on the tractor before I start calling around? Since it still drives and moves easily through the gears before I parked it, can I get by with just replacing the clutches? 


Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 2:34pm
Ive heard rebuild on an Allis Powershift was around $5000 a few years ago,  


Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 3:18pm
The last one we had done, was on an 8070, and it was $6,600.00, that was in 1994.


Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 7:55pm
Cost is going to depend on finding parts, it sure looks like you are into some hard parts.  Most of the hard parts in the trans are no longer available (NLA) most can be found at salvage yards, but that is a variable in the cost.  If you are lucky and you really didn't toast much, and maybe can get away with seals, gaskets, and only a few good used parts, maybe a couple bearings..... you might be able to rebuild it yourself for under 2K in parts.  Add oils filters coolants an AC charge, hoses, and if you can't do the work yourself, well then there you are. 

-------------
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7


Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 8:01pm
Never touch the Air Conditioner. Unbolt components and lay them off to the left side out of the way.


Posted By: Kevin in WA
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 8:03pm
  that wire looks like a section of wave spring from one of the clutch packs.


Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2020 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

Never touch the Air Conditioner. Unbolt components and lay them off to the left side out of the way.
  I know you are the God around here, but flexing 45 year old hoses and crimp connections almost always results in a leak anyway, and with my luck it seems a challenge just to keep the A/C hoses tied up on the rear tire, let alone a compressor still on the end of them.

-------------
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7


Posted By: rw
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 4:36am
Mine broke the front bearing support at 5000 hrs. I did the labor and spent about 5500 ten years ago. The bearing support was 2500 as I remember. I possibly  could have reused the clutch plates.
I think I would look into having this front bearing support checked for cracks in the threads as an early step in the decision process. 


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 11:45am
Thanks for the "bad" news everyone. I know a guy that use to work as a mechanic for Agco in Iowa. He is thinking $8,000-$10,000 depending on parts needed. He based that on the transmission work being around $6000 back in the 1990's. He is looking at starting in January. 

He mentioned that I should get 5000 to 6000 hours before work will be needed again. So at 100 hours a year, I should not have to worry about the transmission for awhile. 


Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 12:11pm
Do what you will, but for 8-$10,000 I'd be buying another tractor. Preferably, another 7060 and you'll have yours for lots of parts.


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 12:56pm
Yeh, but again you don't know what you are getting with the age of the tractor. Every Allis tractor that I watched my Dad buy over the years, always seem to have something hidden that was wrong with it. 

For example my dad bought a 8070 and within a month ended up putting a new front end in it because the original was shot. 700 hours later and the tractor is doing great. 

I think if I fix it, I know what I have then, otherwise I would again be taking a gamble. With everything fixed the tractor should last me for many years. It looks new already.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1py2LPBfsZQLp0Q3j4RbIN-UPnaxiLfuI/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1py2LPBfsZQLp0Q3j4RbIN-UPnaxiLfuI/view?usp=sharing




Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 1:20pm
Yes, true, and it's your decision. Guess my way of thinking, not likely to have the exact same thing wrong with 2 tractors, and you'll be buying a lot of salvage parts anyway. If you were buying all new parts and a warranty, would be different.


Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 1:21pm
Nice looking tractor for sure. Guess that's where the book/ cover saying comes from! Good luck.


Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 5:47pm
Have you changed the rear end filters/oil yet? If not I would at least drain the oil, pull the filters, and cut them apart, to see if there are any fillings there, then make a decision.


Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 6:01pm
Those things are setting around, maybe an idea to find one like you have and roll the tranny and rear end into yours , 


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 6:22pm
Thanks again for the reply. There is indication that there has already been work done to the transmission in the last 300 hours. I again hope it is an easy fix (not costly fix). 

I go to church with the Agco parts guy, and he seems to think we can get some parts for it or get them tracked down. According to the date and time it has had less than 300 hours in the last 12 years. If you look at date and time stamps in the picture it has indication that work has already been done to the rear end and maintenance has been kept up on it. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12T1BK7fP9RXvHV1FHoEslrJ89ce2M4gO/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/12T1BK7fP9RXvHV1FHoEslrJ89ce2M4gO/view?usp=sharing

I still plan on calling around to other shops and see what their hourly rate is. This is the first tractor I have bought for the farm. I have always wanted an Allis Power Shift. With my Dad passing away recently everything seemed to fall into place like he wanted me to buy it. I have to believe and have hope that this is a simple clutch or drive plate issue. 

To answer the question I did save the filter when I changed it. I will gladly check the next time I am at the farm. I did see tiny metallic iron fillings against the screen, nothing major. Not a lot of slug, just black oil like clutch/drive plates were going bad. Again it had power driving up hills on the way to the farm, never really lost more than 200-300 RPMS going up steeps hills, shifts great between gears, high/low works great, and the parking brake worked as it should. 

 


Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 6:24pm
I plan on calling a salvage yard tomorrow and seeing if they have anything, and what there warranty is. 


Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2020 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by tthams tthams wrote:

Thanks again for the reply. There is indication that there has already been work done to the transmission in the last 300 hours. I again hope it is an easy fix (not costly fix). 

I go to church with the Agco parts guy, and he seems to think we can get some parts for it or get them tracked down. According to the date and time it has had less than 300 hours in the last 12 years. If you look at date and time stamps in the picture it has indication that work has already been done to the rear end and maintenance has been kept up on it. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12T1BK7fP9RXvHV1FHoEslrJ89ce2M4gO/view?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://drive.google.com/file/d/12T1BK7fP9RXvHV1FHoEslrJ89ce2M4gO/view?usp=sharing

I still plan on calling around to other shops and see what their hourly rate is. This is the first tractor I have bought for the farm. I have always wanted an Allis Power Shift. With my Dad passing away recently everything seemed to fall into place like he wanted me to buy it. I have to believe and have hope that this is a simple clutch or drive plate issue. 

To answer the question I did save the filter when I changed it. I will gladly check the next time I am at the farm. I did see tiny metallic iron fillings against the screen, nothing major. Not a lot of slug, just black oil like clutch/drive plates were going bad. Again it had power driving up hills on the way to the farm, never really lost more than 200-300 RPMS going up steeps hills, shifts great between gears, high/low works great, and the parking brake worked as it should. 

 

It is certainly a possibility previous work has been done to the rear end, I see what looks like a date on the two speed shift cover on the rear end.  I also see what looks like the possibility of a black belly ring gear on your maroon belly tractor, all indications of previous work.  I would hope like heck IF the trans was previously worked on, the lower cover and filter screen would have been removed and cleaned, but it is possible the large items you found in there "could" have been overlooked, and are not from the current issue.

If I may, I will suggest right now, that the only thing I would source from AGCO is a seal kit, new clutch discs, and new shaft nuts........ALL other items I would find on my own from a reputable salvage yard, I know of at least one good one that has a lot of 70xx trans parts, and bearings I get straight from the manufacture, I.E. Timken or equivalent.

I wish I was in a different position at the moment, or I would come help you out, those trans are not the hard to work on if you have the right facilities and equipment to do the job.


-------------
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7



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