So I am getting more serious about building a structure on the property to store some of the items (toys) I have accumulated. Also to maybe have a shop in a portion of the new building to do more tinkering with old stuff.

I have picked out a spot that seems to make sense from a proximity to other structures the driveways and the utilities. In other words its in close walking distance from the house and sugarhouse. Actually in between them and in front of them towards the road.

Just thought I would get some ideas from folks, of what they would do different if they had choice on a building that they use for similar things.

Since I am not needing the building to make a living from and not independently wealthy cost will always be a factor. I believe I will go with pole building type construction. 

This project is a little too big for me to build by my self in a timely fashion. So the current plan is that I will pay someone to get it up and then maybe I will do some of the finishing work. 

Comments are always welcome. There are a lot of good ideas on here. Pictures are always welcome. And If I do get this going. I will post some pictures (probably too many) along the way.

Regards,

 Chris

Then we moved, and had Morton build me a new shop.

I've always finished the inside including insulation.

If you go that way, get back with me and I'll tell how I did the inside finish/insulation.

Good Luck,

Dusty

1st ... it's already too small !

Ok, serious stuff

Install PEX in the concrete floor. While you may not use it for a year or two, it's THERE when you want it.

Install 36" wide mandoors, both ends.

On the south side , add windows, or at least frame for them. Natural light is great,specially midwinter.

Insulate, wall, then add electrical using conduit. put quad receptacles everywhere ! Quads, cheap to install allow for light, extension cord,drills AND chargers without 'extension bars' .

height ? 16' is real nice, cost about same as 14' BUT you'll get a real useful mezzanine out of those extra 2'.

have windows above the garage doors, again more natural light is great

have 3 way light switches at BOTH mandoors

if possible , make a 'mechanical' room to house air compressor, furnace, etc.

I'm sure others will add to the list !!

Funny I was thinking the same thing about gravel portion for tractors to set. These  tractors all seem to leak!

I always appreciate theses suggestions on projects. It makes me think about lots of good options. Of course I have some of the details/ specs in my head but I really should get back in the saddle and sketch this up on a CAD system. Maybe Google sketch up?

Pex in the floor is one of the things I have considered. I don't have costs on all the features but staying comfortable in our climate sure would be nice.

Quad outlets might be the way to go. I have the electrical stopping by this after noon for very preliminary review of main power options from the road.

I have heard you can never be big enough many times! Trying to really think about that up front too!

Yes some windows for natural light too.

Not sure I can afford a Morton Building but they are nice! Any idea approx cost per sq foot for a Morton building?

Tom, Investment or just another way to spend the kids inheritance?

At my age is this type of thing/project just a foolish old man with a kids brain?

Regards,

 Chis

This is my second shop I've used this type of heat. 

Dusty

2 unless they're round, there is always sh!t in the corners.

3 if you pour a concrete floor, make sure you put a sheet of plastic, under the pour, cause in humid weather concrete with no vapor barrier= rusty sh!t in the corners!

HTH

Today we talked preliminary electric service and options with Nic (grandson) my electrician. Monday the electric company engineer is coming to meet with me to review options. I will be bringing all the power for the house and sugarhouse through the new building. At least that is the current plan.

New 200 amp service entrance into the shop, could go under ground or overhead, then underground to the house and then to the sugarhouse. 

My current 2 car attached garage has been insulated in the ceiling and walls and it sure does make a difference when its cold or hot. Well worth the investment.

Regards,

 Chris

Given the choice, go 100% underground for hydro ! You'll NEVER have to worry about tree branches taking out power. See about $$ for 400A service, 200 for shop/shack, 200 for house. Yes, it's more upfront $$, BUT a onetime cost. We all would hate to hear you say, dang I need another 100A...2 years from now.....and it costing 3X today's price.

Also start a BOOK ! Put prices, names, numbers in it.That way you can compare and decide based on facts not 'well I though he said.......'.

 Great suggestions. I will find out about the 400 amp service. A neighbor did that in his new garage a couple years ago.  My current 200 amp service in the house is full. Makes sense to at least get costs. Book is good idea too!

 Regards,

 Chris

 I like the idea of the lean to. I am a lean to kind of guy. So I talk with folks and they say it is more cost effective to put the entire area under one roof. I understand both ideas. on one hand its cost effective to just build one building. On the other its nice to have seperate areas to house and hold things where you can close the door or get away from a project, or to contain things like paint and noise too. Good suggestions on power options.

So many projects so little time!:)

And if my body could only do half of what my brain thinks I can I would be way ahead!

It seems a lot of things will be in slow motion on a project like this now. Even the gravel folks are not hauling. Courthouse is almost shut down so paper work may take a while. 

Maybe that will give me some time to sort things out as we move through this spring.

One thing is that this is not a building that is farm related. More of a toy box/ workshop.

Would like to have a bay to get my pickup in, then several tractors, OK 7 of the big ones and several small lawn tractors too. 

The shop needs are, solid work bench, place for basic tools,  I have torches, two welders, small sandblast cabinet, vertical air compressor. Would love to have a jib crane and electric hoist!

Would be nice to have a paint area. I like to do these refurbs where I clean and paint stuff too. 

Regards,

 Chris

 Just a update, We continue to move slowly forward on this. I wake up in the middle of the night wondering about this project! Some of the paperwork has been set in motion.

Things like permits, 811 call, Electric engineer visited and gave me quote to get power to the building. She did a survey of our annual electric usage and found we dont even get close to using 100 amps at any point through the year. So we will be going with new service disconnect on the new building and then run new power to the house panel. Also my electrician was here to do rough measurements and is working up a quote.

Found out the supplier for gravel doesnt have the appropriate material for the building base at this time. And the contractor to do the site prep has just been called back to work. Cement contractors will be stopping in to provide quotes on flooring options.

So one move forward one move back. Sounds about right.

I have developed a general plan for the function/ layout in the building. I may wall in approx 1/4 th of the building as the shop for tools and work benches. This would be a area approx 20 x 20. 

I may try to sketch this up?

Also looking at light storage in approx 50% of the attic area. May build a permanent set of 4 foot wide stairs to enter that area above.

Lots of details. I would like a bunch of things that just may not be in the budget for a while.

If/ when this building project moves forward, I will try to take some pictures. 

Regards,

 Chris

 Was just reviewing all the shop design and detail comments! So many good ideas here. I will use some and some may not fit my building design and or budget. I thank you for all of them! 

Regards,

 Chris

 At home due to weather and trying to not venture out much anyway. I spent a lot of the day doing soft work on the building project. It had been several years since I used Sketch-up design system. I was able to work on variations of the proposed floor plan. Not sure I can add  it in here its a PDF output file.

Ok So I could not figure out how to load a PDF so took some pictures of the screen the resized them, and then loaded. Don't laugh too hard will try to improve this sketch!:)

Not great pictures of the 3D sketches, sure not complete. and I am very rusty on CAD. Havent decided about location of the man door coming into the tool shop? Maybe in line with the stairs? Maybe around the corner. ceiling height 12 foot. garages doors in this design 10 foot high 12 foot wide. 3 foot walk doors. 

The big blue thing on the floor is my truck outline. The "tool shop" is about 20 feet sq. 

I moved the man door between the two 12 foot garage doors. Have stairs going to a loft area for some storage.

Will be a 6/12 pitch. 

Regards,

 Chris

The folks that have poured some buildings like this are recommending 4 foot of the insulation around the building perimeter to keep the frost out too.

Man I thought I had that part figured out! Your probably correct. If I keep bringing stuff home the 4 acres will be full!

 Regards,

 Chris

I'd suggest making it as wide as you can, say 40'-45' and then as long as you can afford/ think you need.  Then in a couple years you can add on to the length for more storage.  You might go to the Successful Farming web site, they have an issue each year with "best ides for your shop", some pretty impressive and expensive places but lots of good ides that can be used in a more modest building.

My 2 cents.

 I had not heard of pouring in the light of the moon? I need to brush up on my astrology too! 

I did think about a 2 post lift. That was the main reason to go with 12 foot inside ceiling height. I don't think I would really need to be that high for anything else. Probably crazy for a old man to have all these ideas.

Current stakes in the yard are at 40' wide x 60 ' long.

Electric company was called and a fellow from there stopped by yesterday to mark a dead ash tree that will need to come down. They will get it on the ground and we will cut it up. 

Two other trees will have to come down as they are inside the current building outline. Doesn't make the wife  or I happy loosing trees. Our dog will miss the one maple as she lays there a lot!

Sorry for the rambling. Thanks for checking in on me too! 

Posting helps me stay on track a little bit. During these difficult time I struggle to understand if I am doing the right thing on considering a major, expensive project?

 Regards,

 Chris

The electric company fell the ash tree yesterday. I told them to just get it on the ground, and I would clean it up. Sounded great to them!

Loaded the sticks using the trailer and the wide front WD.

Here is a shot of where the shop is planed to land.

Shot from the front of the sugarhouse looking south west.

Regards,

 Chris

Used the Wide front and trailer to load the sand for the great grands kids. Got that out of the way.

Fired up the D17 and used it to pull the basketball hoop. 

Neighbor came over and we squared up the corner marking stakes. We need a couple dry days and he should be able to start pushing dirt. 

Yes the two trees at the north end have to go too. I hate cutting tress down!

Regards,

 Chris

 

 

 

It needs to go,,, ah ,,,ah ,,,, about 1500 miles to the southwest....lookin good though, at least your getting started,, I haven't got much past wishing/planning stages...

 

 

I have been thinking about building a shop for many years. Actually long before I started collecting these large orange toys. So Why now? I am sure if I get this building done this year I will kick my self for not having it sooner.

Our little spot had two potential locations. This one in the island area. and the other would have been towards the back of the property beyond the drive. 

It is going to be big and bold and in our face for a while. 

Neighbor came over with his backhoe and loaded the ash logs.

Today Cheryl also helped me split up the wood from these trees which were in the foot print or very near the new building.

Little moves, as we atttempt to go forward, I think?:) So there was about 2 cord of maple, ash and elm.

Regards,

 Chris

Great progress.  Once you cut the trees down, I knew you were serious about building!

Yea on the trees, my theory is that once you touch the chainsaw to them  its over and you might as well get on to the rest of the work.

The realistic plan is to get the structure up and weathered in. After that will regroup and see what the next moves will be. 

Will try to document some of the moves on here too. 

We have rain today. So not much outside work.

Regards,

Chris

The logs are at the Amish saw mill and will be sawn into (4) 1/4 thick lumber (1 inch). I dont know why I get my self into these things! I need a buch of boards like another hole int he head!

The cement guys stopped by last night and gave me the estimates for cement in the building. Planning to go the lower cost route with vapor barrier, wire mesh and 4 inches of concrete. I am not planning to be working in the entire building every day, so in floor heating just does not seem cost effective. I had not priced any of this recently and it was a surprise. So the budget will need to be reviewed and adjusted. How come these things always cost more than you expect!:)

Hope things are good in Orange Land!

 Regards,

Chris

allisG,

 Of course this is a concern of mine also!:) I need to slow down on bringing projects home!

Thanks for the support I think!:)

Regards,

 Chris

Also, I've never been a big fan of having the shop and tractor storage in the same building. I think you are better off to have a shop building, and then build a shed for tractor storage, or have several different buildings for things. I just worry about fire, and it can limit your risk if you don't have "all your eggs in one basket", so to speak. Had a neighbor that converted part of an old barn into a shop. He had hay stored in one end, tractors parked in the side shed, and a shop closed off on the other end. One of the tractors had some sort of electrical short while just sitting there, set the barn and hay on fire, and pretty much burnt up everything he had.

 Thanks for checking in on me. And the suggestions. Yes I have thought about the storage and shop thing too. And I really had considered two separate structures at one time too. Really the tractors could set on gravel in a shed type building and be fine. My property is not real big so the whole project has some compromises. I had thought about a lean too and the builders recommendations were to be most cost effective build it all under one roof. 

I have thought about maybe only cementing one half and also considering havint the work shop area (about 1/4 of the building, being walled off and have a heater in there only. 

Still working on the details.

 I am hoping its a real nice addition to the property, the wife can pay for it, and I can live long enough to have some fun in it with my big toys. Those are my three goals!:)

Regards,

 Chris

Floyd,

I do worry a lot! Thanks for your support and words. This is the largest most expensive project I have taken on. And at my age I seriously wonder if I am doing the right thing. Some days it seems a little foolish and or selfish. Have been thinking about something like this building for many years!

I will be hiring most of the work done. As I just would not be able to do this building in a timely fashion. I plan to keep busy trying to keep things cleaned up on the job site, run for supplies, or hold the dumb end of the tape measure for someone that knows more about this stuff than me!

 Regards,

 Chris

 Great pictures of your buildings. The big barn looks very nice! 

I moved one step forward and two steps back today. About normal on any of my projects.

I wanted to try to utilized the large area in the trusses for some storage. I know its debatable and everyone has there own opinions. Yes we should get rid of stuff not have room for more. The truss I looked at would provide 960 square feet of additional floor space designed for 10 lbs per sg foot load. 

 So I had my potential contractor get the design and pricing. Its double the cost of a std truss. :(

I guess I will ask the question. Is it worth it? The additional cost for the taller open trusses is about the cost of a 10 x 12 shed. The actual storage area would be about 8 times more than a storage shed.

 Was thinking I could squirrel away all kinds of Allis parts up there too!:) I could have one end and the wife could have the other. 

Regards,

 Chris

just 10#/sqft ???  so YOU can't stand up there ???

something sounds weird....

One BIG problem is getting stuff up and down... for some 'reason' old knees don't work good, shoulders ache and well... it's a PITA going up and down 23 time only to find the item NEXT to the phone you used 2 hrs ago....

I've got 'stuff' squirreld away in the garage 'attic' I haven't seen nor used in 25 years..yeah one day I might go through it... Worse is the shop, where the 'contractor' has tons ( really) of stuff on a 'floor' hanging from the 12' centered trusses( ones still broke).....

If you build a mezzanine, cost in a dumb waiter..... THAT will pay for itself PDQ

 I googled Shirk they are 5 hours from me. 

I hear you that you put stuff somewhere and it only comes out after you die!:) Maybe not funny but true.

 I have thought about the dumb waiter concept too. 

The cost of the approx 960 square feet of storage, (16 x 60)  is about the same as buying a 150 sq foot storage shed. So yes there is some cost, but may still be good value?

Yes this is for a truss that is somewhere between a std truss and a room truss.

I appreciate being able to bounce ideas off you guys that may have much more experience. I know that one building does not fit all. 

I was considering reducing the ceiling height back down to 10 feet. This woulkd lowere the base building costs and offset most of the storage truss cost.

Yes the 10# per foot doesnt sound right. May have to look at that more? I may not have been looking at the specs correctly?

Off to cut wood for making syrup. A couple hours of that should take my mind off this building.

Regards,

 Chris  

Most floors in a house are designed for #40 PER SQ FT.... Roof are normally 20 - 40 depending on if your in the SOUTH, or expect to have 10 ft snow drifts on top.

Yes I believe the 40 lbs exterior roof load is a number I recall.

Thanks you for these comments! 

I may look at the 9 foot doors with more panels and sharper turn.

Also I had a come to Jesus meeting with the little woman that pays the bills. She said she would not use the loft area for her stuff. It took me a little while to get around that concept. And then it hit me I will build this for just me!:) After talking to several friends today, I will now consider a plan to look at options with no loft storage. It just took a giant load off my shoulders!:)

Some of the results of that decision:

no stairs to climb, several folks reminded me that I am not getting any younger!

no loft flooring costs

no extra truss costs for the loft design.

no extra costs to insulate the door into the loft.

no windows in the ends of the loft area.

To allow for some storage it would be in the form of wall racks.

Also may look at half of the building with conventional truss systems, and the other half to have scissors type with 3/12 pitch underside pitch. This would allow potential head room for a 12 foot car lift system someday?? Not sure what the cost of the scissors truss will be?

Regards,

 Chris

 Not really shop related but I got a call that my logs had been sawn and I dropped everything and went to get the lumber. Now maybe some of this Ash will be used in the new building too? Don't have any plans but there are some nice boards in there. The sawyer was even drooling over them!:)

218 board feet came to $40 for the saw work, (Amish run band saw mill) I thought that was fair price.

Cut the stickers and Cheryl helped unload it.

I include this here because the tree had to come down for the new building to get started.

No we have not broken ground yet, just way too wet here. Maybe within the next two weeks we can get the pad in place??

Regards,

 Chris

 Did a poll of the two big grandsons and they vote in favor of 12 foot ceiling and 10 foot high overhaead doors. They are in their 20's and have lifted trucks on the brain I think!:)

Just need to make up my old mind. I know that 20 years ago when I built my sugar house the ceiling in the evaporator room was set at 10 feet. I thought that was way to high. Now I barely have room to get my maple equipment under the 10 feet ceiling. 

Hope things are good out there in Orange Land! We have a little drier weather today. May try to mow the rest of the yard.

Thanks for checking in on me. 

Regards,

 Chris

Yes I did find out you can get the low clearance door 9 foot in a 10 ft room. The door is more expensive than a residential 8 footer. That being the case I am leaning a little towards the 10 foot door and 12 foot ceiling. At least this hour today! I had kind of budgeted for 12 foot ceiling and 10 foot doors already. Not sure I will ever heat the whole place during the winter. But sure would be nice if it could be a little more comfortable.

 My sugarhouse is cold, un-insulated, and it is not fun to try to work in there when its in the teens!

Thanks!

 Regards,

 Chris

That helps get the look with the Allis setting there. I know I have only a inch or two clearance with the Allis tractors under a 7 foot door. So that just has to have taller doors in the new shop for sure. !2 feet seems over kill today! Have to polish the crystal ball and look into the future. 

Hey that's a nice looking Allis.

Regards,

 Chris

The WZ at the north west corner of the proposed building, truck is setting in front of one of the west facing garage doors:

Regards,

 Chris

 I have a giant hole in my yard today! I need to begin to finalize some design things. Gravel for the compacted building base is coming tomorrow. 

Regards,

 Chris

How come this all scares the heck out of me? To much stress at my age!

On a good note I did get my wood cut for making syrup next year. Perfect!

The dirt pushers will be filling in the hole tomorrow. Using bank gravel and packing it. Hoping for no rain tonight and into tomorrow til they get this pad in place.

More dirty pictures coming!

I have to sleep on it. One thing at a time. Maybe when I see the pad the rest of the building details will start to gel?

Regards,

 Chris

 Thanks for the information on height and storage. I need to separate my want to haves from my need to haves. 

I am not planning on going into farming but also dont want to bump stuff on the door headers.

Moving dirt today.

Regards,

 Chris

Dusty

Good news / not so good news!

 Thank you for the responses on the pitch of this ramp up into the building. I know it has to be above grade in this situation as i am sandwiching this building into a small area. not many options with existing drive and buildings already in place too.

 I get too worked up about mistakes that I make in things. I don't build buildings often this is only the second one. The sugarhouse I built 20 years ago. So it really bothered me to miss the basics of getting the grade into my sketches.

Had good meeting with my dirt moving contractor and he is planning to make several changes to slightly reduce the ramp up into the building. Also will do some additional work to install drains all around this building to get water to the road ditch. Sounds good to me, maybe I will sleep better tonight.

Here are some pictures as the dirt moving progressed.

We had rain last night and things were pretty soggy, and will be for at least several days.

Top soil removed to around the perimeter.

Great grandson Cooper watches dozer pushing dirt. He loves to watch but did not want to get on it.

Truck in the area of proposed shop:

Maggie was really hoping for a pond! 

I now own a mound of wet soggy dirt! About 27 loads of bank gravel to fill the hole to grade.

Regards,

 Chris

Well, it's under construction, good for you!  That is a lot of fill but it is the right thing to do.

My cousin in the Hinckley, OH area, still hasn't planted corn or beans, water still on top of the fields.  Told me he won't be planting in July like he did last year.  If not planted by late June, it's not getting planted.

Bringing this back to Allis land.

Took the WZ for a nice ride down the road. It runs very good for a old tractor! A little bit of gear howl but  not as bad as my wide front.

Here it is headed up towards where I had the two proposed 12 foot wide doors facing west.

Here I am setting in a chair and took some pictures.

Looking west

Looking north

Regards,

 Chris

That's funny I did that yesterday. Found a old beer in the fridge, grabbed a chair and went and set in the dirt pile where the overheads are proposed. That is the 4th picture down looking west!

Regards,

 Chris

Bob,

 I think that is a good thing right?? 

I will try not to worry as much! Thanks for the support! Sometimes we just need to get things off our chest. Thanks for listening!

Folks,

Happy Memorial day to all! Hot weather here. Worked in the garden a little getting the ground ready to plant some seeds.  We have a 7hp Troy buit Horse rear tine tiller. Opened the little camper and napped in the shade of the awning for a bit. The central air in the house was a nice comfortable 70F. Felt great so took another nap after lunch too. 

Went to daughters tonight and snagged the 272 mower and tried it on the Jubilee. It worked fine. Just need to move the left front caster out to provide more tire clearance. 

Oh yea back on Allis stuff, I took the WZ for a spin down the road and back. Nice cool breeze and 85 degrees. That Z code engine just purrs! Local farmers were discing and planting beans with mid size CASE tractors.

Regards,

 Chris

This weeks installment of shop talk!

 So the dirt guys were back mid week and removed 6 inched of bank gravel from the top of the building pad, and the top soil around east and south perimeter. This bank gravel was used to bring the exterior grades on the north and west sides to near finished levels/ slopes. I think its better, not such a incline. Some pictures:

Maggie checking it out.

views are from the south west corner

View from out in the garden area looking east at the elevated side of proposed building.

Looking south from the camper:

The approach slope is improved by lowering the pad and then also "finishing" the approach pad. 

I am considering 10 foot eaves, so as not to make this building so high compared to the house and the sugarhouse.  Also still debating the roof pitch and storage and scissors truss options. The old brain toggles back and fourth between what I might like to have for these features and the cost. Most of the options cost more of course!? 

The house and garage are 4/12 pitch, the sugarhouse is 8/12 pitch with the 3/12 lean to.

If I go with 4/12 it keeps the peak of the building lower and would just have a flat 10 foot inside ceiling. No storage in loft. If I went with 6/12 the building would be 20 foot at the peak but then would have the options for storage trusses above and or scissors trusses for 15 foot high bay area inside. Decisions/ decisions!:) Maybe it will help me to write them here, and you folks are always willing to listen to a old man ramble.

We are having a lot of rain so its going to take a while to dry this pad out enough to work on it. That's OK many other things to do. Grass is needing mowed every 3 days!

Hope things are good out there!

Regards,

 Chris

 We wait on the weather then the bank then the builder. Things may come together by this time next year? 

What are your opinions on doors on each side of a building across from each other that you could theoretically drive through or exit with a piece of equipment rather than having to move something? Advantage/ dis advantages? 

I have this desire to add a fourth overhead door for this purpose. I will loose some wall space.

Here is a picture of the youngest Ggrandson riding his bike around on the building pad.

The white pole represents 10 foot eave height.

No he is not falling down, he has the bike balanced on its side, making racing sounds like he is leaning into a sharp curve, going 110 mph!  He is 2 and rides this non pedal bike like he is 10! Now just need to get him out of diapers!:)

Meet with builder tomorrow. Will see how that goes. Keeping my expectations really low!

Thanks for checking on me!

Going to pick up my truck tomorrow. It just had a removal of the pollution crap. Will see if that cures it! I did not want to do that but its been giving me fits!

Regards,

 Chris