Replacement Truck Rims?
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Topic: Replacement Truck Rims?
Posted By: modirt
Subject: Replacement Truck Rims?
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2019 at 3:58pm
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Working on rehabbing a goofy gadget that has the old Firestone RH5 two piece rims......aka, the Widow Makers. Confirmed by the stamped plate on the rims. Rims will be scrapped when suitable replacements are found. Tire size is 7.5 x 20 in a 6 hole bolt pattern. Duel rears, so need 4 of them. Anybody have or know where I can get a set of rims to fit? Basically something that might fit a Chevy C60, 65, etc. Truck salvage yards in the midwest? Junk yards in midwest? I'm in central MO. I can post or send pictures if it would help narrow down the search.
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Replies:
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2019 at 6:03pm
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Generally later model truck or school bus rims should be made in the same bolt pattern... ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 11:14am
Look for a 2 or 3 piece lock ring for 20" or 22" but you can get tubless rims also to fit bolt pattern as 22.5 tires are more common now  ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 2:53pm
| What is the circle size on the six? There are 19.5x6 wheels at 8.75 diameter lug pattern available commercially. Hate to say it but Isuzu is about the only medium truck using Six lug now. |
Posted By: LeonR2013
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 3:26pm
| Go to a place where they are junking old school buses as suggested. Don't know off hand where that may be. I think you can get them in a 9R22.5 or even a 10R22.5 and get them in the right height. Leon |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 5:54pm
I measured and it looked to me like the 6 hole bolt pattern was 8.5 inches. I've been told rims off a Dodge D600 or maybe 500 would fit. Possibly some Ford trucks. And maybe school buses. Now that I think of it, I know where there is at least one salvage yard that has about 10 buses that have been parked for some time, and he may also have the old Dodge trucks on some other truck with matching rim pattern. If not, he may even have a complete axle assembly off a wrecked salvage truck. Diameter of existing tires is about 35 1/2 to 36 inches. Trying to keep the same diameter if possible.
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DMiller wrote:Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 6:21pm
https://www.roadkillcustoms.com/wheel-bolt-pattern-cross-reference/6x8.75-wheel-bolt-pattern-6x222.25mm-6x8.75-inches/6" rel="nofollow - https://www.roadkillcustoms.com/wheel-bolt-pattern-cross-reference/6x8.75-wheel-bolt-pattern-6x222.25mm-6x8.75-inches/6X 8.75 Bolt Pattern Measurement and Specifications
How To Measure 6 Lug Bolt Patterns https://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=UTF8&tag=roadkillcus0b-20&linkCode=ur2&linkId=990c93c8ccaa4b1212864de82a803f75&camp=1789&creative=9325&index=automotive&keywords=bolt+pattern+gauge" rel="nofollow"> ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
The 6 X 8.75 Bolt Pattern or Pitch Circle Diameter (PCD) is made up of the stud count (6) and the bolt circle measurement (8.75), the notional circle determined by the center position of the studs.
Measure 6 lug wheel bolt patterns from center to center distance between two studs that are across the hub from each other. This measurement is your bolt pattern diameter. Learn more about https://www.roadkillcustoms.com/wheel-bolt-pattern-cross-reference/6x8.75-wheel-bolt-pattern-6x222.25mm-6x8.75-inches/#Wheel_Dimensions" rel="nofollow - 6 X 8.75 bolt pattern is common to OSHKOSH, SPARTAN, JOHN DEERE, INTERNATIONAL, DODGE, OSHKOSH and SPARTAN (6 HAND HOLE) vehicles.Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 8:35pm
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I suppose it could be 8.75". Hard to say as the tires are mounted, to the hub is in the way of an exact measurement. Can these hole patterns be determined from the axle? This one is a Rockwell F106.......have a picture of the ID plate if that would help. Does anyone have a way to track down the specs of the axle from the ID plate?
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 9:17pm
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F106 is a good number from the 1970s https://truckpartsinventory.com/axle-housings-rear-meritor-rockwell-f106-parts" rel="nofollow - https://truckpartsinventory.com/axle-housings-rear-meritor-rockwell-f106-parts ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 9:28pm
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Rockwell axles could be purchased with WEBB hubs/ wheel end https://www.webbwheel.com/oem/products_hubs.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.webbwheel.com/oem/products_hubs.html ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2019 at 10:36pm
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center to center distance - can also be measured from outside of one stud to inside of stud directly opposite - 180 deg - so can be while mounted - use a divider to clear axle end . ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 6:55am
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BTW, this is the ID tag on the axle. Anybody know how to decode it? I have spent hours searching, but not much info on them. Steve has provided more information on them in this single thread than the entire Internet can offer (at least using my search engines).  |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 6:59am
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I should also mention that while I have driven stuff with axles like this for well over 50 years, I've never touched one with a wrench. Worked in the shop at a school bus barn one summer, and changed some tires, but that was 40 years ago.....and no deeper than changing the tires. So I'm having to get up to speed on how all this fits together......and doing it in a hurry.
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Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 7:22am
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6.8 X 1 raito -- rest is build info - seems it's a heavy axle for load rating . Same axle could be used with many different brakes or wheel hubs . Also could be the rear section of a tandem axle in some instances . Start on page 10 of PDF file to decode the tag . http://www.truckpartsetc.com/sales/PDFs/Leland/Leland_AxleID_006-011.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.truckpartsetc.com/sales/PDFs/Leland/Leland_AxleID_006-011.pdf ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 7:51am
| local tire store may have the rims you need, and if not...they could prolly tell you where to get some. I ordered new ones from a local auto parts store for my 1 ton. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 8:34am
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yeesh 6.8 to 1 ! My Willys 4WD PU had 4.88s in it, not too good on gas.. With 6.8s you'd need to always see a gas station nearby ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Coke-in-MN
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 9:11am
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Big difference when your dealing with 20" tires from a Jeep My White Super Mustang with a 6-200A engine 5 x 4 OD transmission had 6:33 rear tandems - 34,000 SLHP rear and ran 9.00 x 20 tires - I went to 10.00 X 20 rears and 13.80R20 fronts to get GVW up to 51,000 - can carry 16.5 tons in box and scale it my GMC has 7:54 rear tandems 427 engine - RT613 trany and in order to get any speed you need to wind that V8 over 4,500 RPM , and only haul 14.5 tons - same tire sizes as White which turns under 3,200 RPM ------------- Faith isn't a jump in the dark. It is a walk in the light. Faith is not guessing; it is knowing something. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
Posted By: truckerfarmer
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 10:21pm
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My 87 GMC C7000 has 6.10 to 1 ratio rearend with 20" tires and a 5 speed tranny. Humms Dow the road nicely at 60 mph. 4.10 ratio rearends used to be pretty common in over the road trucks. Overdrive Granny's make up for the low gears. I'm in the process of switching my truck from 20" tires to 22.5" tires. I'm fortunate enough to have 10 bolt rims though. Low pro 22.5"s are almost the same height as 9.00 20s. New steel rims cost me about $90 each. ------------- Looking at the past to see the future. '53 WD, '53 WD45, WD snap coupler field cultivator, #53 plow,'53 HD5B dozer Duct tape.... Can't fix stupidity. But will muffle the sound of it! |
Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2019 at 11:44pm
| Now if I could find some for my Studebaker.....it's got them widomakers on it,, but their like a 5 on on 7 1/2",(I'm not sure on the exact measurement) and are the 'hub pilot' not the 2 nut 'budd' type,, there out there,jus kinda like finding hens teeth tho.. |
Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 5:52pm
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Most truck manufacturers did not make their own axles. They would be supplied by a third party supplier. The vehicle manufacturer might have called for special specifications but usually you could find the same axle say, under a Ford as under a Dodge of the same year. The same would happen with manual transmissions. ------------- Jack of all trades, master of none |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 6:27am
| Appears as a Ford P/N on that F106 housing, if anything time to buy Dayton Spoke hubs and convert to common 22.5 Wedge wheels as most old trucks were. Bearings were common to all, either Ford or GMC or IHC just different wheel ends difference in seals. |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 3:46pm
My hope was to find some direct replacement rims, hopefully with decent tires already mounted, that I could use as a direct replacement and just swap em out. Just started this quest, so they may turn up eventually. Good news is the ones on there now are still holding air, so have some time.....but sometime before next summer at the latest. Lacking that, it looks like I've got options.....from swapping hubs, all the way up to a different axle, with rims and tires already in place. BTW, have not mentioned this yet, but this axle has brake drums.....and not too sure what condition the pads are in. Have heard those are getting harder to find. Could be I wind up with a different axle, modern tires and disk brakes?
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Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2019 at 11:01pm
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A good tire shop should be able to get you new rims,, in 20" with just a split ring, or tubeless 22.5,,or maybe even 24.5,, I would go with tubeless 22.5's that match the size you have now There should be no need to go to the trouble of swapping hubs, brakes an all that... BTW, what kind rims are on the steer-front axle? |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 12:54pm
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These are the fronts. As near as I can tell, a form of solid rim with modern tubeless tires, which look like they got some life left in them, if they winter indoors.....as they will be doing under my stewardship.  |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 12:56pm
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Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 1:08pm
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So to confirm.....these are 6 lugs and do have the 8.75 bolt pattern. If I understand correctly, these are hub pilot rims........not sure if this particular two nut system is common......so challenge when looking for a replacement is to find modern rims to fit these studs.....   Semi-unrelated to this thread......I also need to replace the master brake cylinder......and thus the need to open the bleeder valves. Happy to report that after numerous soakings with PB Blaster, and later Free All, all four bleeders gave it up without incident. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 1:33pm
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Modirt, don't know if you have every had a 1 ton axle ( or above) apart before... the "TWO SETS OF BOLTS" is common for any larger truck.. On a car or half ton truck, you pull the alxe half shaft with the flange and studs and outboard bearing ( or race) all in one piece.. On a BIG truck the alxe is not loaded with the outboard bearing... You pull the center ring of bolts which disconnects the axle half shaft from the hub / wheel... you can pull that small flange with the axle shaft on it out of the housing... Wheel / tire/ mounting bolts all stay in place on the axle housing.. You don't need to mess with the INNER ring of bolts, just the 6 OUTER bolts on 8.75 inch circle. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 1:39pm
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here is a little movie of the axle half shaft drive... some variations, but all 1 tons ( some 3/4) and above are similar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRhkYQsAKI4" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRhkYQsAKI4 ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 1:40pm
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Eewh! Those are ball and seat,not hub pilot. The hex nut is the outer nut and the square head is the inner nut. Both seat into a taper. Remove outer first,then outer wheel. Remove inner off it's stud and remove inner wheel. Sometimes the inner wants to turn with the outer....not fun. Your life would be better if you could get hubs /wheels that are pilot hub and one nut holds both wheels. Mid 60's Chevy 2 ton used that type.
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 1:40pm
| Is a ton and half or two ton axle. IF the removal of the outer nut backs off the inner then take the rest outers off, there is a tool to hold the outer nut and drive the inner thru the outer. Typical Budd Wheel nuts Righty Tighty Lefty Tighty on these, Left Side should be marked L on the head of the inner nut. 8.75 is a real common pattern six lug. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 1:51pm
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If I understand correctly, these are hub pilot rims........not sure if this particular two nut system is common......so challenge when looking for a replacement is to find modern rims to fit these studs..... OOOPS... after reading Steve and Dave posts, I see that the WHEEL STUD NUTS are double and you are not talking about the axle half shaft bolts !! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 2:35pm
Never have........I'm one of those guys whose only experience at this level is kicking the tires and lighting the fires!  BTW, big difference between ignorant and stupid. Or put another way, brain surgery isn't hard if you know how........but if you don't know how.......you don't have much business trying it. When it comes to stuff like this I've always deferred to guys who know how. This time, I've having to do it myself. Kinda fun.....but there is a learning curve.
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 3:44pm
| Called full floating rear end, do not have to remove everything wheel related to remove a axle shaft(Large flange looking at you) to remove the third member if need be, will likely have TWO seals on this axle, the Old school method was a Axle Flange Gasket with a Tube end seal built in it then the retainer Nut(s) for the outer bearing, removing tires and wheels does make it easier with the axle on a support stand. Back the brake shoes adjusters full OFF, remove the bearing nuts(will be lock tabbed), outer bearing then drag the hub assembly off. Is a axle seal to remove to get the inner bearing out of the hub, should have a P/N on it to match locally. The tube seal flange gasket you can discard and ignore from now on, bearings will become Oil Bath from here out. Have not seen those old gasket seal assemblies for at least thirty years, will be a p/n on them, can always try to replace if feel the need but doubt still available. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 3:53pm
This is the slightly larger GMC I put seals in and brakes on disassembled.
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Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2019 at 6:11pm
Now that I see the pics, they do look like budd wheels. My Isuzu NPR has 'em on it. One might be able to take 16" Budd wheels, like on the NPR, and cut the centers out of them, then center the cutouts onto a set of 20" donor wheels (the hard part, LOL), and weld the new bolt pattern over the donor wheels. Of course you have to cut out the old bolt pattern, on the donor wheels or drill or burn out with a torch. Depends on how much time and tooling you have versus money to buy the correct wheel. Military may be a source: https://www.ebay.com/i/331307169209?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=331307169209&targetid=475515383181&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1018558&poi=&campaignid=1669934843&mkgroupid=65058350579&rlsatarget=pla-475515383181&abcId=1139296&merchantid=101740664&gclid=CjwKCAjwpuXpBRAAEiwAyRRPgfd17WoW4kBgD5owlEYs9flzcMng0dTHW7KiVxRfeslvGNkfnTUzKRoCsowQAvD_BwE" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/i/331307169209?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=331307169209&targetid=475515383181&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=1018558&poi=&campaignid=1669934843&mkgroupid=65058350579&rlsatarget=pla-475515383181&abcId=1139296&merchantid=101740664&gclid=CjwKCAjwpuXpBRAAEiwAyRRPgfd17WoW4kBgD5owlEYs9flzcMng0dTHW7KiVxRfeslvGNkfnTUzKRoCsowQAvD_BwE You might be able to find 6 bolt 8.75" reinforcing rings, somewhere, too, try calling M.E. Miller tire, they might be able to get you a line on them. Also, Gensco tire, that sells aircraft tires, and military tires, may be able to help, too...  ------------- Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need! |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2019 at 6:38am
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Think I found my rims. They are 22.5# Budd style tubeless, with same 6 hole pattern and hole size. They were on some type of Ford truck. $75 each or $300 for a set of 4. Unfortunately, tires on them are worse than what I already have, so need to hunt down tires to fit. That may be to my benefit.......as I'll probably need to go as narrow as I can to get them to fit. |
Posted By: 200Tom1
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2019 at 10:48pm
| Yep you got it figured out. If you can go tubeless tires, cheaper south Korean made tire should work good for you. |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 10:55am
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Rather than to hijack recent post about Dodge truck rims, went back and found this one. Have an additional question. On the rims in question, I did buy them, cleaned them up, etc. Tire size listed on them is 22.5/6.00 Also says max tire size is 9 / 22.5 Again, these are intended to replace 7.5/20 on Firestone RH5 (widow maker) rims. Problem being, nobody seems to be able to find anything smaller than 10/22.5 and those only in a highway tread. Have been told they will work......will have a bulging tread in middle, but on the low speed farm use hay monster, won't be a problem. Thoughts?
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 12:03pm
| Becomes a Run what can buy issue. |
Posted By: modirt
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 3:26pm
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The alternative I keep running in my mind is to find a set of one piece 8.25 x 20 rims....as I'm told those tires are common....but would probably be a tube type. As there were a lot of old trucks running 7.5 x 20 and 8.25 x 20, this does not seem like it should be this hard to resolve.
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 3:36pm
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either way................ as a side note, i have mounted many tires on a rim that was 1 inch off in width....... not a problem. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 3:37pm
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Another alternate, find 19.5s in a six lug budd pattern.
https://buytruckwheels.com/products/19-5x6-00-stud-pilot-accuride-steel-wheel?variant=6965330870308&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwz6_8BRBkEiwA3p02VePJbHetyXayRnIDXS9sOQQZhV1b-GQ1g0cij-CR-jsGzuWJ61bVqxoCF6cQAvD_BwE" rel="nofollow - https://buytruckwheels.com/products/19-5x6-00-stud-pilot-accuride-steel-wheel?variant=6965330870308&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwz6_8BRBkEiwA3p02VePJbHetyXayRnIDXS9sOQQZhV1b-GQ1g0cij-CR-jsGzuWJ61bVqxoCF6cQAvD_BwE
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Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 11:21pm
| That's a common 6 bolt bud rim. There are many 9x22.5 tires still made. Goodyear G661HSA, Double coin, Michelin XZA, Iron Man Steer, Laclede camlock, etc. Any mom and pop tire shop should be able to get them for you. Your old tires might have some trade in value. |
Posted By: Clay
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 12:47pm
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My 1954 Ford F500 uses 8.25x20 |
Posted By: allisbred
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 8:34pm
| Those are standard wheels on 60’s through mid 70’s D500 trucks.They are very common around here. Do you get to PA any? Might be able to round some 8.25 x 20’s up for you. |
Posted By: Michael V (NM)
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 11:12pm
I need 6 of these 22.5's for a 1960 f-600,, a store in Amarillo quoted me $400 ea....like to replace the 8.25 widow makers that are on it now....although the tires that are on it now are decent and will last a long time,, just don't want to have a flat,,cause I don't think anyone around here will fix them... |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 2:55am
| the place i bought my dually from has another Dodge 3500 dually that has semi tires on it, i didn't look to close at the rims, the tires are i think...255Rx22.5 go look on the web site: http://www.brettspauldingsales.net" rel="nofollow - www.brettspauldingsales.net |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2020 at 2:58am
| it's the maroon 4-dr dually, appears to have 10 bolt rims. |