The second is a massive oil leak at the rear crank seal.  The upper section, of course.  I dropped the oil pan and replaced the oil pan gaskets, and the leak is still there, running down the face of the engine crankshaft output.  It will dump close to a quart an hour while running.

My intent is to drain everything, pull the engine and put it on a stand, flip it over and change the seals.  The engine was supposedly rebuilt by a friend of the previous owner, but everything else will get at least a good inspection while I'm in there....is there anything else I should keep an eye out for while I have her opened up?

What's the best way to pressurize the cooling system, throw together some sort of plug for the radiator cap I can put an air hose on?  I'd imagine it should only take a few pounds of pressure for a leak to manifest...

 Sure hope you have better luck than me and my current 45. Its been a year since I pulled the engine in mine. Turned into a much larger, more interesting, and more expensive project than I had anticipated!

Yes low pressure testing revealed the cracks in my block between the sleeves. Wishing you the best. But your headed in the right direction. I still like them enough to fix them.

Regards,

 Chris 

Yes, I am surely hoping it doesn't turn into one of those types of projects...I have enough of those already :D

This is what was left in the oil pan when I dropped it...all the oil looked like that.  The oil in this tractor has about 10hrs of time on it.

Here's a shot under the valve cover.  Everything looked good, other than being coated with the chocolate milk oil.

Here are a few shots of the crank and pistons...the bottom sides of the pistons look remarkably clean to me, I'm wondering if they've been replaced at some point.

Shot of the seepage around the water pump hose

 

I was told the AC radiators should not exceed 7 lbs pressure by the local dealer at the time.

 

Sometime later I took a D15 radiator into a fairly new radiator shop for clean out and a few days later I was informed that it needed a new core.

I always thought it had too much pressure used to clean out.

I do still have the oil, I had dumped out my catch pan prior to draining the tractor so I'll try that and see how it looks.  I'm assuming, if there is a significant amount of coolant in the oil, it should separate out to get an idea of how much is in there?

Ok...now that the pan has been off for a while and  everything that's dripping off the bottom end hopefully has, I can clean it up a bit and check again.  With everything under there dripping with dirty oil, it would be hard to see yet another slight leak from one of the sleeves.  Once everything else has stopped dripping, it should be easier to spot.

Yep looks like you have a WD45 opened up. Don would also tell you that you might as well get ready to pull the engine to do the seals and pan gaskets properly. But back to the finding of the leak. Dr recommends spraying with brake cleaner. I would never have thought of that! I like learning stuff from these guys!

Your water contamination was not as bad as mine. And I found my leaks easy as I had cracks between each pair of sleeves! My grandsons younger eyes helped too!

My guess is that you have a very small leak but still a leak. Now finding it. The pressure tester, and a good light. Maybe a air hose to blow off any drips? And could it be somewhere not visible??

Good luck I will be watching!

Regards,

 Chris

You can also get an ultra violet dye to put in the radiator.

 Don't know if it will get into the entire system,though with out being able to run the engine and circulate it.

 I agree. Have been there.

DrAllis wrote: The coolant leak at the water pump hose, is probably NOT the hose. It's the water pump seal leaking onto the hose. I'm just sayin...……...

Actually, if you look at the underside edge of the water pump neck, you can see that it's got residue on it that supports the likelyhood of this assertion....

But this doesn't explain the presense of water in the oilpan... and IF he doesn't get any leakage indication with pressure test while pan is off, it's PROBABLY because the block is sealing fine at room temp, but once running, it's got either some loss of seal due to thermal expansion, OR... there's enough of a compression leak through the head gasket, or the head, etc, to 'force' coolant into the oil realm.

Double check those cylinder head frost plugs!!!

I got the engine out, so my current plan is basically preventative measures, i.e. start throwing parts at it :D  I need to pull the crank to replace the oil seals there, so I figure I might as well pull the head off as well, replace the head gasket and cylinder sleeve o-rings as potential leak sources as well.  The freeze plugs in the head appear pristine, but I'll knock on them a little to make sure they are solidly seated.

One question - when you order the oil pan gasket set, it comes with the two formed pieces for the sides of the oil pan, and two pairs of straight gaskets, I'm assuming one for above the main seal and one for below.  The pairs are two different lengths...which one goes where?

Engine out!

https://postimages.org/" rel="nofollow">

This is the pulley/coupling on the front of the crank that goes to the hydro pump to power the FEL.  It's an...interesting setup.  And the pump location made getting the engine out a real freaking pain.

manifold side

oil sample...looks awesome, right?

it's been sitting for about 2 days in this picture, and you can see some separation in the bottom inch or so of the container.

Aw, man... that hydraulic pump drive concept is nasty.  Sheesh...  well, it's apparently the best they could do with what they got... I'm surprised that the pulley survived all that welding.

I dealt with this on the front pump drive for my D17... I thought I had a picture here somewhere... yeah...

and here's the shaft I made to extend engine PTO out the front bolster:

This might help you with the oil pan and rear main seal when you get that far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LWCMvO_Dis&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LWCMvO_Dis&feature=youtu.be

Awesome, thank you!!

I was at this similar position a year ago.

 My leak/s were pretty obvious!

Excellent video and super helpful, but you started to talk about the two different lengths of the flat cork gaskets for the oil pan ends, but never came back to it.  What is the application difference between the two different sizes?

I'm rethinking my previous plan of replacing the sleeve o-rings.  After doing some more research it looks like I'll need some sort of pulling tool to remove the sleeves.  Based on the pressure test, I didn't see any leakage around the sleeves, so I'm thinking it might be better to leave well enough alone.  From looking and feeling in the coolant paths and around the outside of the sleeves, I don't feel any corrosion or debris in there, so there may not be a compelling reason to mess with it.

Tried to get a pic of the wet coolant areas on the head, block and gasket.  I have a lot of cleaning to do before I put those back together.

 I probably cant help you at all other than ramble on? The leak, well you got one response that it may not be the head gasket. If not, then you have more work to do to find the problem?? Others can direct you better than me. 

That crank end sure looks compromised. Are you going to continue to use this to drive a pump? If not maybe it can be repaired to at least get one good original type set screw. 

Mine did not have any set screw in it and it was holding enough to run the water pump and alternator just by friction.

Not sure about the different lengths of gaskets for the front and rear of the pan. I believe I only got one set in my 45 gasket kit. Don't cut the length. Put them inside a soup can to get them round. Get the clips to help hold the gaskets in place for installation too. well worth the $3 each.

You moving right along.

Regards,

 Chris

I've done the oil pan once before, but yes this time I will be getting the clips,  and also doing it on the engine stand.  That should be significantly easier than trying to do it all from the bottom of the engine, which is how I did it last time.

The rear main seal, where the major oil leak was, i dunno.  The felt seals are in there but don't look like they were sealing very well, so hopefully redoing those will solve that issue.  I'll follow the steps in the video Don posted, about making sure the top cap is flat and true and all that to set myself up for a good seal. 

Sugarmaker, did you pull your engine sleeves?  If so, how did you get them out and back in again?

Yes I have a crude puller for the sleeves. A tube larger than the sleeve, to set on the deck, 1/2 inch thick plate that fits in the bottom of the sleeve, 5/8 allthread through the center. Washers and nut on each end. also apply a little oil to the allthread as needed. 

Putting them in is a lot easier. Almost by hand with twisting down pressure if your good. I am not that good. I needed a couple taps with a piece of hard wood for the last 3/8 inch. That's for the final o-ring assembly. For just checking sleeve protrusion with out the o-rings they come in and out by hand easily.

I guess if you needed to you could have the block magnafluxed for cracks. I had mine checked out. 

Don has seen a lot of these. That crank end has seen better days!

Regards,

 Chris

Thanks for that info.  For the pull, did you need to crank on the all-thread until the entire sleeve was clear of the block?  Or can you get it halfway or so and then it pulls out freely?

 You have good skills and are quick too. The time fabricating the right tool saved you time.

 Good job!

 Regards,

 Chris

'57 four door Bel-Air wagon.  My wife and I restored it before we were married.  We both like old iron 

https://postimages.org/" rel="nofollow">

Regards,

 Chris

This is from the top, looking down onto the upper surface of the lower web, where the liner o-rings seal.

Regards,

 Chris

Yes! There should be permatex police! it does get over used on occasion! Sound slike your block cleaned up good. Those seal areas are going to be critical. I used veggie oil to lube the sleeve o-rings. 

Regards,

 Chris

good advice, thanks.  I will check that soon - right now I have the covers and everything dry-fit and taped off to paint the motor tonight.  Once it's apart again I'll be sure to check that.

I couldn't find any mention in the service manual of the spec'd bore size, or the clearance between block and liner, so I really have no idea if these measurements are acceptable or not.  If anyone has that data I would in interested in seeing it.

The repair was done between cylinders 3 and 4.  I took measurements on 1 for a baseline, then 3 and 4.  These are the places I took measurements:

https://postimg.cc/WFyYWtNy" rel="nofollow">

Cyl 1

A - 4.51

B - 4.53

C - 4.52

Cyl 3

A - 4.50

B - 4.55

C - 4.59

Cyl 4

A - 4.54

B - 4.61

C - 4.56

So, the bores for cyl 3 and 4 are slightly larger, but NOT in the area where I expected if the pin repair was ground down too much inside the bores.  All that being said, without a tolerance measurement I really have no idea how much variance the sleeve o-rings can be expected to make up.

 I think your right on in doing the measuring! But I have a question. You have dimension spread of .090 thousands! That seems way to big, but I must say that I did not measure mine in that area. I would have expected machined dimensions of .010 inch total?

I have my junk block but sent my sons mics home.

Ok so that is a repair in that one web. Makes sense. Hope you can save this block!

Regards,

 Chris

Hows it going? We haven't provided a very good prognosis on your engine project. Your pictures really help bring up some good questions and good point. I for one did not look too hard at that sealing area. I guess I sanded it smooth and did not notice any serious issues. I did not measure it. In fact to be honest I didn't measure anything related to the sleeve area. Just cleaned and set the sleeve protrusion, and made sure the sleeves rotated freely by hand prior to o-rings. 

Looking forward to your updates on your engine work. I am keeping my fingers crossed on mine! I haven't started it yet and its my first 226 rebuild!

Regards,

 Chris 

Please re-read this before you put it back together. All that sealer is a warring of trouble the last time it was overhauled.

Do you mean engine s/n or tractor s/n?  I don't have the tractor s/n handy but I did confirm it's a 1953 last time I looked at it, so it's definitely an earlier WD45.  The engine block s/n is 45-3667-G, for whatever that's worth.

I don't have an inside micrometer, I used a standard mic with a bore gauge to get the measurements.  I can get better resolution measurements...I was rushing through it last night.  I don't have the new o-rings yet, they are scheduled for delivery tomorrow, but I think your suggestion is valid - if I measure the diameter of the sleeve with the o-ring on, and compare that to the bore measurements, I should be able to get a good idea of how much compression I'd be looking at on the o-rings once the sleeves are installed.

Yeah...I'm beginning to understand that.  With the appearance of a repair to the web, the variance in the bore diameter and the sheer volume of sealant found on the sleeves and bores...this is not a new problem.  Ugh.

I bought this machine not really knowing what I was getting into, and originally noticed the oil leak (which even at that time looked like chocolate milk) when we were loading it on the trailer at pickup.  Seller (who reportedly bought the tractor from a mechanic friend who did the previous rebuild) kind of brushed it off as, "oh, it probably just needs an oil change".  Looking back, the internal coolant leak had probably already started and has steadily gotten worse in the time I've had it.  I probably paid too much for the tractor even without this issue, so now I'm struggling with, am I throwing good money after bad by chasing all these problems?  This went from an oil pan gasket replacement, to a rear main seal replacement, to holy crap I really need to replace the whole block and potentially the crank!  Budget, meet torpedo 

Those prices were based on a quick ebay search...AC tractors are not at all common around here in New England, as far as antiques go.  Everything seems to be either JD or Farmall.  Parades or shows will be 90% green or red, with an occasional one-off AC or McCormick thrown in the mix.

 Not a easy answer here. I had that point in my project. But for some reason I never once considered stopping and selling it or parting it out. My brain says keep going and try to do the best to make it work again. That's why I come here instead of going to a bar or to a shrink. Projects keep me out of trouble and are my mental and physical therapy.

Wishing you the best. 

Regards,

 Chris

someone on the AC facebook group mentioned a product called Hard-Blok or other engine block fillers, which sounds similar, I'd think I could install the sleeves then pour it through the coolant holes on the top of the deck.  You're right, it would be a one-and-done fix, but if the block is otherwise scrap anyway, it might be a stop-gap measure.  Anyone ever used this stuff?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-35571" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-35571

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hnh-860212" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hnh-860212

good luck with the project and please continue posting your progress

take care and good luck 

john

 Hope it runs as good as it looks too! Thanks for the pictures and updates on your progress. Coming right along!

Regards,

 Chris

Also got the water pump and t-stat housing cleaned up last night, I'll paint those separately prior to assembly.  Also need to decide if I want to paint the carb as well, while it's apart.  Internal engine assembly begins tonight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LWCMvO_Dis&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LWCMvO_Dis&feature=youtu.be

Can you better describe where you see the oil coming from? Maybe someone can determine the cause. I dont have a answer for you at this time. I would consider pulling the engine again and going through the sealing process again. I dont have a better answer for you. I know there is a reason for your oil leak. Just need to find what it is and correct it. 

Regards,

 Chris

The video

 

[TUBE]9Sr7NjhoR9k[/TUBE]

 

 Thanks for the update. Not sure what the leak problem is but it sure looks milky, as water mixed with oil. You have done a bunch of work on this and I dont think its going to meet your expectations for a good working engine. Pull it back out and tear into it again. I think you may need that good replacement block to cure some of the ills.

I know that's probably not what you wanted to hear. 

Regards,

 Chris

X2

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/embed/ ( 9Sr7NjhoR9k )

 

HTH