D17, New Puller
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=161048
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Topic: D17, New Puller
Posted By: frnkeore
Subject: D17, New Puller
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 12:17pm
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I'll be competing in local pull, on Fathers day weekend and I have some questions on set up for my stock, D17. I haven't weighed it but, I'm adding what I think will get it in the #6500 class. 2, 400 lb wheel weights, and 300 lb (4700 + 800 + 600 +me @ 195 + 160 water = 6455 lb) , on each side, at the bell housing. Depending on what that comes to, on the pull scale, I'll add some water to the 7.50 fronts. 1. I have 16.9's on 13" spin out wheels, what would you run for pressure? 2. The draw bar hitch, is 6" behind the PTO shaft, how high would I run it? 3. Should I run 1st gear, high or low? Thank you for any help. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Replies:
Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 1:09pm
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what are the rules? "generally" you want high hp/weight ratio and run your drawbar as high and short as rules allow. ------------- Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20 Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 1:20pm
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Other than weight, there isn't much in the way of rules , for this event (informal), It's kind "run what you brung" we are under USAP rules, overall. 20" max draw bar height. I don't want the front to come totally off. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 1:24pm
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Another reason that I want to run in this class, is there are 2 other guy's that do pretty well, in this area, with a Case DC and a MD OS4. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 1:30pm
| Go have fun pull your tractor watch and learn from others whether you get first or last. So many variables speed limit? track condition? tread on rear tires? If its a strong motor and loose track with no speed limit 2nd gear and use high and low range otherwise 1st high. Hitch as high and short as rules allow and the clevis you hook to bolted solid. Are there any lighter classes? With that much weight with good traction you may want a little of the weight out front. See how it pulls practice if you get a chance some how. And it is all for fun. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 12:04pm
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Are there any tire pressure minimums for my tire and wheel width? Can I run 8 lb w/o spinning the wheel, on the bead? Any help is appreciated, you don't want to see a D17 beat by a DC4 and a International, do you? ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 12:35pm
| The best thing you can do it make a drawbar that is SHORT and HIGH and SOLID. Take advantage of the 20 inch height and make it as short and SOLID as possible. Bolt solid the twisted clevis so it cannot sag. Personally, I would make a plate with a 3 inch hook hole bolted solid directly to the drawbar bail at 20 inches high. Run a chain (or make a steel bracket) to the snap coupler with a chain binder set tight to make the chain pull the load not the drawbar bail. All the weight you can get on the rear wheels, not all hanging from the bell housing. You will be too heavy on the nose with all your weight in the middle. High side of low gear and do NOT shift into the low side until the engine pulls clear down to almost 1,000 RPM. Let it lug down that far before shifting the hand clutch. Tire pressure will depend on hard or soft track and tire lug profile. I'd set them at 12 psi and no lower than 10 psi. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 1:15pm
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Thank you, that helps a lot. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 1:36pm
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One more question: Is there a basic, front weight range for the 6500 class? I assume tire size and track condition matters but, somewhere to start. Percentage ratio or just a weight number. I'm a machinist and fabricator so I can move things around a bit. I've read some in this section and it appears that liquid in the rear tires, isn't the best. I bought 150 gal of Rim Guard, last year but, haven't use it yet. Is there any application that liquid does well in? ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 1:44pm
| I don't see where fluid is a problem, other than you can't move it around. As far as two identical tractors, one with rear fluid and one with rear cast iron weighing exactly the same, I'd like someone to prove to me which one is better as far as "traction"...……..A-C sold a lot of tractors that had fluid in them from the factory and I don't think anyone ever took the fluid out and replaced it with cast iron because it pulled better without fluid. |
Posted By: Acllss puller
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 7:45pm
| Why not pull in 5500 lb class or don’t they offer it ! |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 8:09pm
| As far as the "split" front to rear, I'd say pretty close to 1/3 of the weight needs to be on the front . The way you are saying you are going to hang the weights leaves you too heavy on the front I think. The perfect balance would be when you spin out and forward motion stops, you can just slide a sheet of paper under the front wheels. ALL the tractors weight is on the rear wheels and the drawbar is still 20 inches high. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 12:34am
If I pull in the 5500 class, I may be the only one in it. This is a small pull and not all classes have entrants. I'm a competitive person and have raced, most of my life. The best competition, in my area, is in the 6500 class so, that's my focus. I would go down, if there was something good to run against. I bought my first tractor 25 months ago and became a member of EDGETA 11 months ago and bought this D17, last Sept. so, I have a lot to learn yet. There are actually 3 good tractors in the class, Case DC4, McCormick Deering OS4 (W-4) and a Farmall M, I think. In the last pull, at another location, the OS4 won. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Acllss puller wrote:Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 8:25am
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Frank, Lots of guys on here have forgotten more than I will ever know about tractor pulling. And my 2 cents may not help you. But I have pulled my D17 for several years now and watched other Allis tractors. Hate to say but they are generaly in the middle of the pack. I have shortened the drawbar to the 22 inches from rear axle centerline to hitch point. Also have adjusted the height of the draw bar for each pull. Also had a solid "D" ring made for the hitch. Best I have gotten at local pulls was maybe a couple 3rds. On the other hand: My grandson Nic did real good with the D17 at local fair last fall. The track conditions can make a big difference too. Our tractor seems to like wetter sticker tracks, way better than dry hard tracks. I have not upgraded the tires they are the older non Firestone version. Cant think of the name right now. Air pressure around 8 lbs. Armstrong is the tire brand. He out pulled a lot of tractors that typically leave me in the dust. 5000 lb class. Was at 5500 and moved down. I dont move weights at these pulls. Here is Nic. At this point I am just bragging! But great to have family involved!     This is a local Puller from NY coming to our show with his D17. He usually places in the top 3 spots. 18.9 rears.  Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 12:55pm
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Thank you all for your help. Dr, Thanks for bring the side weight issue up. I did some measuring and where I was going to put it, would put 63% of the weight on the front. I found that I can extend the anchor point to 43" ahead of the rear axle and get 54% on the rear but, I'll only use that, if I need front weight too. I have the wide front, so I already have at least 100 lb more weight than a narrow front. Chris, My draw bar will be close to yours, in length. I measured it at 21" (18" to the mount hole, plus about 3" for the twisted clevis) and I'm building a adjustable link to it, mounted at the clevis bolt, so everything will be solid. Our track is a full time dry, access rd so, it's pretty hard. I'm surprised that you only run 8 lb tire pressure. It doesn't seem like enough to keep the bead attached. I was going to start at 12 and drop to 10 but, I will now start at 10 lb and drop to 8. Based on your Gransons tires, that MD OS4, must have been around 6lb, the side walls were way wrinkled and about 1/2 the standard section. And they were only 14.9x26. Very impressive, to me. The track started out on grass, so it was sticky to start with, after the grass was gone and got dry slick (stock car term) in spots, before the end. What size tires was that NY guy running? ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 1:07pm
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Frank, 18.9s on that 17 from NY. He cant pull that every where due to antique tire size limits. Typicaly the 16.9s would be the largest. He was ok on this day. I see a lot of tires squated even more. This seams to work for us. My goal is to have fun and help out at the pulls too. I don't need the trophies! You just have to dust the darn things! Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 2:20pm
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Chris, These are the USAP Farm Stock tires rules: 2. Tires sizes 15.5 x 38 max, or 14.9 x 30, 16.9 x 28 (16" rim max). 18.4 x 38 7000#-8500# (16" rim max). I have a set of 18.4 x 26, tires and wheels. Would I have to get in the #7000 class to run them? The pair will hold 154 gal of liquid and I have 150 gal of Rim Guard (1725 lb), that would get me close to the 7000 lb class. I wouldn't do it this year but, maybe next. I don't have to win but, need to do well and I do love to maximize my equipment, if I can afford it. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 4:58pm
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What ever you do pull the 5500 even if your buy your self that’s a practice pull for the 6500 you can figure out your balance point then weight up for the 6500 ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 5:37pm
| If balance in the 5500 is correct, add 300 to the front and the rest on the back for 6500. |
Posted By: DanWi
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 6:00pm
| Last bit of advice have a friend video it with a cell phone or camera. Get the start of the pull and where you end so you can review the tape and see what you did right or wrong. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 1:46pm
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I would like to thank you, all, again for your advice. In searching for pictures of D17 markings, I found the D17 Wheatland tractor. It has 18.4 x 26 tires as it's standard tire. Would that mean that the 18.4 x 26, can be used in antique pulling? ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |
Posted By: frnkeore
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 4:52pm
 I found this, regarding dating Wheatland.So, it fits the Antique Class, date criteria. ------------- Frank 1959 D17 Series I #24001+, '59 D14 '55 & '59 Ford 850 & 861 Ferguson TO 35 Deluxe, Oliver 70 and 5 more. |