AC175D Engine Failure
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=159268
Printed Date: 22 Sep 2025 at 6:43pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: AC175D Engine Failure
Posted By: NC Bruce
Subject: AC175D Engine Failure
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 3:12pm
 Had my AC175D 4.248 Perkins Engine, completely/fully rebuilt in 2016, mechanic had blocked bored and I believe he put in a larger Ferguson sleeve/piston kit (said AC kit had been updated?...weird?)Past year tractor started overheating, changed thermostat, sensor, wires, gauge... finally last summer, went to running only half power.. smoking... Injectors removed and tested ok, Injector pump rebuilt...looked ok , still half power... Pulled head off, the other day.... Wow! Between cylinder 3-4 , scarred block, burned "V"s in Sleeve #3-#4, burned out Head Gasket between them, looks like 1-2 were getting ready to burn thru. NOW....What to do...already have $6000++ in it... What OPTIONS, Suggestions, Thoughts you Good AC Folks have??? I have discouragingly thought, of just putting in new sleeves, buffing block?, new gasket ( try some Sealer?) , put it back together.... if it goes out again.... see if anyone has 4.248Perkins AC and Start over with AC Rebuild kit.... Thanks, for any of ya'll s Opinions (I'll try to send some Pics if I can get them Loaded) |
Replies:
Posted By: NC Bruce
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 3:13pm
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Posted By: NC Bruce
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 3:14pm
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Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 3:31pm
| Did the mechanic install a gasket meant for that sleeve kit? The reason I ask is because I understand that there may be different parts depending on vintage of engine, if it is like the 354 perkins. (Dot 1, Dot 2, Etc.) |
Posted By: farmtoybuilder
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 3:52pm
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Should have looked at it when it started acting up. It's been run a bunch with blown gkt! did he face top of block last time with new sleeves? Did it get ran up to temperature and head retorqued. I say it had some problems left from last time. Any time we overhauled any motor it gets new or rebuilt nozzles and pump done. Or we don't warrty work or motor. As something like this can happen. And we always installed new studs bolts nuts on heads too. The 248 was a great motor and fisrt one I've seen this bad between sleeves. ------------- 5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them. |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 4:22pm
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From the looks of things, that head is good and warped. Unfortunately you're looking at another full rebuild if you're going to resurrect it. The only chance of reusing that block means it has to be surfaced to get that burned area cleaned up. When you said the sleeves might be oversized, does the fire ring of the old head gasket exactly match the top of the sleeve? If it doesn't, that's your cause of failure and the place that overhauled it screwed it up. If it does match, I'd wonder if the head was retorqued after it was warmed up. I'd also wonder about the head fasteners. It's tough to say at this time if the head was warped needing to be surfaced before being reused. Running it hot for and extended amount of time can do that. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 5:05pm
| Wonder how a 4 cylinder Ac 433 would fit in there? Probably close and could be done |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 6:24pm
| You have a big mess on your hands. No sense scolding you over running it too long, because you've already figured that out. I guess if you are going to try and save it, you need to determine if the cylinder head is repairable or JUNK. If it is junk, you might as well look for a different engine. Not a good plan to make the head OK good and then have a crappy block to go with it. Thirty years ago I had a customer experience a similar thing with a 7045. The top of his block had a shallow groove between two cylinders. We fixed up the cylinder head and made it flat. We replaced the two affected wet sleeves and put it back together. The sleeve lip is what seals the compression, not the block. We torqued the head bolts to 150 ft lbs and then retorqued cold at 165 ft lbs after an hour run on the dyno. My customer was guilty of not keeping the radiator clean and overheating the tractor multiple times. My fix was an effort to limp the tractor along for a couple thousand more hrs until it was time for a real "out-of-frame" overhaul. I think there was about 3,000 hrs on it at the time. He was instructed to never let the temps get over 190 degrees and keep the radiator CLEAN and fan belts tight. Avoid lugging the engine and the harder the engine worked, the less hours of use he would get from the fix. To my knowledge it made it until he retired and whatever happened after that I don't know. The block would have been repaired/welded/surfaced at overhaul time. At the 3,000 hrs mark, that was a bit soon. You are kind of looking at the same thing, except yours was already overhauled. Either the head wasn't flat (didn't get surfaced while apart) or the head bolts weren't cleaned and torqued properly or the head bolts were not retorqued after 50 hrs of use or a combination of all these things has caused your failure. Maybe you have gotten it hot ?? Anyway, you'll see why wet sleeves are king when it comes to overhauls. Yours aren't wet sleeves. Do your sleeves stand up out of the block ?? Maybe that was the reason for a blown head gasket ?? I'm not a Perkins guy, but I know some of their repair parts have special issues. Maybe your new sleeves aren't standing up above the block deck surface ?? |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 22 Mar 2019 at 6:45pm
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Cant tell for sure in the photo but it almost looks like top of sleeve is cut for round fire ring?? ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: soggybottomboy
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2019 at 11:27am
| Well i can't help you much,but my 175 had exactly the same problem yours has. The trouble is that was about 20 years ago,and my memory that far back is a little foggy. Mine had the cylinder sleeve protrusion broken also. The original sleeves are thin and brittle. I ordered a new kit through a-c and brought them to the local machine shop along with the block,and they bored the block so they would fit. The new sleeves were thicker at the top and looked about the same as yours look in the picture,but if i remember right,they did not have much if any protrusion. We used a different style gasket too. I know all this is not much help,but the engine has run good since then. I used to use that tractor every day to grind hog feed,and did that for years. Don't use it much anymore. Hope for the best for you with this project. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2019 at 12:35pm
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THERE WAS NO 'UPDATE' the 175 's 248 perkins was an odd duck industrial engine - NO other MF type kit will work. There were NO sleeves available that did not come rough finished, dry type - then after installation required finish honing to size. You have no idea what he has done to the block. I would check the head - have it planed , check the block and pray it is close - clean it up - put on a new gasket - run and retorque ... if it holds you are still on borrowed time I would say for heavy use - if it doesn't - go for a 4.236 or 4.248 engine and deal with the front pulley to pump issue if it is the late style. The 236 248 engines used on the AC were different - splined front cranks . We had a customer swap a MF 248 into a 175 and remember there were some issues... but he finally got it done . Sorry for the vague memory but the point is it is not a drop in....Perkins made more versions of the same cubic inch motor than carter did lil ' liver pills... ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2019 at 3:47pm
Makes a person wonder why A/C "farmed out" that diesel engine from the get-go ??
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tbran wrote:Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 9:08am
Allis did not have their own 4 cylinder diesel to put in these (starting with the One Seventy) tractors. 6 Cylinder 262 diesels were being discontinued and needed longer frames. Since they wanted to keep the same frame length between the gas and diesel models, they had to go to an outside source. I will say our 248 Perkins has been a great engine. Very reliable and fuel efficient, it leaked from every pore until it got rebuilt in the mid 90s. ------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '63 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: JayIN
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 10:00am
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I have a Perkins,too Runs like a top. Leaks everywhere! ------------- sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?" |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 4:25pm
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I believe Allis did have the 200 cid engine at the time. The one they used in the HD4 crawler. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: BrianC
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 6:09pm
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Maybe I was sleeping through the thread, but is this a wet or dry liner engine?
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Posted By: Boss Man
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2019 at 6:29pm
| As far as I know all Perkins are dry sleeve |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 7:20am
| The 2200 series was only 200 cubic inches, and that's not enough cubes for a non-turbo engine to make 54 to 62 PTO HP. As with the Perkins 236 and 248, there is a reason and the reason is it takes cubic inches to develop a certain reliable HP @ a certain speed. You would have thought the Harvey Engine Division people would have thought ahead to that scenario, but I guess not. |
Posted By: Kevin in WA
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 9:44am
There were quite a few things that the Harvey Engine Division did not think ahead on...
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Posted By: ACjack
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 9:49am
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The Harvey Engine plant could only do what the "Folks" up at West Allis would let them/ told them what to do and by that the focus was on money. In 1968 when I worked in the experimental lab there was a lot of activity going on but, through out the 70's it slowly became a ghost town and by 79 when I left AC it was all but shut down.
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 11:35am
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yes, they had to show a profit - hard to compete with Deere, Case/Cummins and Perkins with their production #'s. ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |
Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2019 at 12:56pm
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The 200 CI 433 was one of the higher production unit - they did get the price to sell them to lots of other mfgs - Pumps, Barko loaders, the Allis tractor , F2's , generators volume makes a difference! ------------- When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money.. |