190xt
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Pulling Forum
Forum Description: Forum dedicated to Tractor and Garden Pulling
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=156382
Printed Date: 27 Apr 2024 at 4:10am
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Topic: 190xt
Posted By: Bobo Husker
Subject: 190xt
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 5:49pm
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Wondering if I can get some advice on a girdle for a 301. What rpm's and hp should a guy think about putting one on.
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Replies:
Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 7:42pm
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I guess it depends on what all you have bolted on but I can’t tell you at what the point you will need one but after the bottom comes out I can tell you, that you needed one. to do it right you need to take and cut the main caps off flat and make spacers to fit between the cap and bottom side on the girdle. Leave a few thousands between the oil pan rail and bottom side on the girdle to keep a little extra clamping force and room for silicone. I use grade 8 cat bolts threw the girdle, spacers, caps and in the block. After that’s all done it needs or should be line bored. If you don’t cut the caps off you can just use spacers out of round stock but that’s twice as much machine time. Or you can make Billit caps that are longer/ One piece to take up the room. All said and done with the spacers and line boreded I say you be just under or around 2k with the girdle and bolts line bored and read to build
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 7:20am
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The 301 will take a lot before you actually NEED a girdle. I think we got by on a diesel up to 800 HP with twin chargers before we added it to the bottom end, and only because we were going up towards the 1200 HP range in the future. We never experienced any type of a failure. Always have used 15W-40 oil with no additives of any kind. The newer the block and crank, the better, as strength was improving with each generation of blocks/cranks. You leave a lot to be asked here. Gas or diesel?? What size turbo or HP/RPM are you dealing with ??
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 8:28am
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Thank you for 5he input. It's a diesel. Thinking of up grading to an a-pump. Goal is 3600-4000 rpms. Running a HX40 currently.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 9:07am
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As long as your main caps fit the block OK, I wouldn't do a girdle for what you are doing.
I'd be a lot more concerned about bending a stock (non-heat treated) connecting rod.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 5:46pm
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I do have hardened rods. FPV. Also head work, pistons cut, fire ringed and hardened push rods. Cam work as well. All by FPV.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 5:47pm
Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 6:50pm
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Are you able to run an intercooler?
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 9:04pm
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Yes have frozen boost ice over air.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 9:07pm
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Last year ran 51psi exh 48 psi boost.
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Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 11:15pm
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Are you limited to a turbo size?
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2018 at 3:18am
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Nope, no limits for turbo.
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Posted By: Acllss puller
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2018 at 9:39pm
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No need for girdle , had twins over 1000 hp 100 lbs boost no girdle never a problem ! Rods are a must . We also drilled and tapped the outside of block made the cam pressure lubed great investment seem to “free” up the motor ! Also had squirters for Pistons two .
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 11:00am
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What kind of oil pump did you run for that?
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Posted By: Acllss puller
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 6:18pm
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The front drive ac oill pump you need the wide crank gear for it , provided more than enough oil pressure for all of it!
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Posted By: Acllss puller
Date Posted: 26 Dec 2018 at 6:24pm
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So we oiled crank , pressure lubed cam and two turbos off that ac oil pump you need the oil pan to go with and the wide crank gear . I think I have all of those still here , might be interestedi in selling , I used the 200 twin oil filter setup to , t d off the back of it for feed to all that stuff .
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2018 at 7:07am
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To have the "wide" crankshaft gear, you must have a newer crankshaft for it to fit. You cannot install a wide gear on an old crankshaft.
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Posted By: Acllss puller
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2018 at 6:04pm
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I have a crank with one on it to , also have a gas crank with shorter stroke done for one also will sell cheap no longer need lol
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Posted By: Acllss puller
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2018 at 6:15pm
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Upgrade the turbo to like s300 or s366 with tight exhaust theirs way more potential that the hx40 !
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:45pm
So I have the "older" 301. A 65. Will your crank fit on my motor with out alot of machine work?
Is it a simple swap? Does it come with a dampener pulley. I'm being told that's my next worry.
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 12:00am
you will have a long term issue as yo are about to put hardened gears running on non hardened gear in the front. Find a say, 6000, 7000, or 200 AC tractor engine...as gear donors ..
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 5:16am
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Putting a newer wide gear crank drive oil pan in a older block is the question? The front timing cover backing plate needs some material removed. And an adapter for the pump to attach to and has to be right to get your gear to gear back lash.and oil pan will have to be changed or modified. As well
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Posted By: tbran
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 1:53pm
AS STATED - I would find a 200 , 7000 or 7020 block and front cover depending on whether you are running a hyd pump or not... back when,,,, we ran twin chargers with the old bayonet pump - had to add an oil lube jet to the gear drive on the cam gear/pump gear to prevent wear as we noticed some wear occurring. A customer we helped with a gas had the same issue. We did not run piston cooling. The idea of pressurizing the cam is a good idea especially on the front cam brg.
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When told "it's not the money,it's the principle", remember, it's always the money..
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 3:15pm
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I had one twin-turbo setup that we ran the turbo drain right in on top of those gears thru the tach drive/ignition distributer hole in the block. We always ran 15W-40 oil and didn't have any gear wear issues BUT, I could see it if using straight 40 wt oil and not having extra lube added to the gears.
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Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 5:46pm
Do the 426's have pressurized cam bearings?
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2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 7:09am
Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2019 at 10:54am
Would any body know of an available A-pump for a 301?
Also I'm being told an a-pump is more realistic for a 301? Vs p-pump?
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Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 8:04am
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One wen your trying to make it on the block
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 8:21am
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 8:24am
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Either an "A" pump or a "P" pump will require some grinding on the block and using three mounting bolts instead of four.
And if you use a "P" pump be sure to make a mounting bracket to secure/support the rear of that long heavy pump.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 9:03am
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Thanks drallis! I'm going to go with an a-pump. I got an oliver adjustable hub. So now to just get my pump gear machined for it.....and a pump. Lol still looking for one.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 9:06am
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Also what do you guys use for heads on the 301? How much hp can you get through a stock (FVP went through it) head?
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 12:07pm
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The large mounting hole in the engines front plate will either have to be oversized or have the nose of the injection pump machined smaller to fit the engine.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 3:40pm
Got it. Thank you! Allis Chalmers around here are abit scarce so advice is hard to get.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2019 at 4:21pm
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As far as the Oliver adjustable hub ?? I use a hub and inj pump drive gear from a 7000-7010-7020-M2 combine.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 2:49am
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Oh no kidding? So no machining needed on gear?
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 10:18am
Using the right hub allows use of a stock gear from a 7000/7010/7020. I might be coaxed into selling the 12mm spare A pump I have.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 10:21am
Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 11:27am
Thank guys! I came up with part#s,
74023602-gear
74061140-hub
Sound right?
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Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 9:42am
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If the numbers are off the parts book in my experience they put a 7 in front for some reason
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 2:28pm
Yup that's where I got them.
Thanks again!
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 11:28am
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At what RPMs do reccomend going to a better dampner pully.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 12:07pm
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When you go to twin turbos and more than 800 HP you should consider a viscous damper. You should use a rubber type pulley, not a solid cast pulley like a 180/185/190. You should use one from an XT or 200, 7000, 7010, 7020, M2-3 combine.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 12:26pm
Got ya, that makes sense, but will a 7000 pully be ok for 3500+ RPMs? 4000 max.
Thanks!
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 1:05pm
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As long as it is in good (rubber) condition and shows no sign of movement.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 3:07pm
Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 10:40am
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What would you guys reccomend for a starting point for timing on an a pump on a 301?
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Posted By: bsallis180
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 1:18pm
Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 3:06pm
Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 4:04pm
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Bobo, check your mail, sent you a message.
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Posted By: Bobo Husker
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2019 at 5:00pm
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