HD21G RECOVERY TO AC COLLECTION
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Construction and other equipment
Forum Description: everything else with orange (or yellow) paint
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=155497
Printed Date: 25 Jun 2024 at 8:45pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: HD21G RECOVERY TO AC COLLECTION
Posted By: AC Mel
Subject: HD21G RECOVERY TO AC COLLECTION
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:02am
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Ok, guys as busy as we have been we took several Saturdays to retrieve this HD21G loader. This loader belonged to Tom Engle and was parked on his property in Sonoma County Ca. between Healdsburg and Geyserville on hiway 101. Sooo....I hope I have the story right... Tom and his family migrated to the area in the late 1950s or early 1960s from the San Diego area. Tom used the tractor on his property for miscellaneous projects and improvements for several years. It was parked along the highway where it was very visible. My brother and I first stopped and talked to Tom about it probably 25 years ago....knowing that it had not moved for many years...thinking he might get rid of it. I remember it as a fun visit....and he liked his one AC as much as we liked are dozen ACs! (not a surprise to anyone on this forum) He was pretty sure he was going to use it some more. We made our first official offer on 2-15-08....still have the letter on my file cabinet. We thought it was a generous offer...more than scrap was worth at the time. It weighs appox 75000# with the rippers....he was appreciative of the offer and said he would consider it.  Once we made the offer we knew there wasn't much else we could do....we did continue to stop by or call him....and he was always happy to talk tractors (like us) We also had friends that would stop by and lobby on our behalf...that it would not go for scrap. He made the comment to one of them that he had been offered $10,000.00. That was about the time the delivered scrap price here in Ca. had escalated to $500.00 a ton delivered....could have made the tractor worth about $15,000.00....so after knowing that...we quit worrying about it. We were still very sure that Tom would not sell it for scrap...but we knew we could not compete for the value that was now on it. So to fast forward a bit.....Tom passed away a couple of years ago. His son Tom is handling the estate. They have had to do a lot of cleanup....and knowing how important this tractor was to there father...it was the last thing to go. Tom had placed an ad that RickV (of ACforum fame) spotted. He contacted Tom and made a tentative deal to take the tractor....Rick later contacted us to see if we had interest in helping him move it.....or maybe take it....he was also thinking it might be too big of job being that far away.We contacted Tom and made arrangements to buy the tractor and move it. The time frame to move it became very complicated for us....do to fires last year....then maybe being to wet where the tractor was parked...then fire work again this year. Need to thank Tom and the estate for there patience to do this. So the first thing we had to worry about to move this tractor was ....literately will it move. It had been sitting for so long we had lots of concerns...track links rusted together(we've had that)...brake bands rusted to steering clutches (we've had that)...engines froze up with the clutches all stuck (we've had that) Sooo... we we're taking bets on what happened. So I haven't posted anything for some time....videos were always a problem with Photo Bucket....There gone from videos....so I have taken the big plunge to" utube " ...spent some time trying to figure out how to keep it separate from my day to day PC accounts. I have edited and spliced lots of video for posting...if it works. So I'm going to try the first upload now to see if it works....then I can continue the story. https://youtu.be/-PUOlp0AwWU |
Replies:
Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:05am
| Ok, so that link doesn't work....Ok guys don't post anything until I get the link to work. |
Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:15am
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https://youtu.be/-PUOlp0AwWU" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/-PUOlp0AwWU Maybe this?
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Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:38am
| That is a BIGGG LOADER!!!! |
Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:56am
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Ok...so once we got it to move..we thought the easiest way to load it would be to push it backwards onto a cozad trailer. We tried to lift the ripper bar with the D6 blade....but it wouldn't do it. Our plan was to take an oil line loose...lift it with the boom truck...drop the ripper teeth out...and put some angle iron pieces on the hydraulic cylinders to lock them up.   We did put a oil drain bucket to catch the oil from the loose hose.  |
Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:58am
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https://youtu.be/siLKvSKMuVc" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/siLKvSKMuVc Ok still trying to figure the utube links
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Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 12:09pm
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After we got the ripper bar up...we cut some angle iron pieces to the right length to jam the hydraulic cylinders in the up position.  Supposed to look like this when it was done...and it worked  So with the ripper bar locked up...we loaded the ripper teeth and prepared for the next big event.   |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 1:30pm
| Dang, it sure is good to hear from you again Mel. And then to come back on here with an exciting project like this one is icing on the cake. Your hat buddy from Nebraska is taking a little time off of here while his computer is getting fixed. he hasn't been on in almost two weeks, but some folks have been checking up on him. Now if you'll just stick with us, it'll all be good. Thanks, darrel |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 5:43pm
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[TUBE]siLKvSKMuVc[/TUBE]
[TUBE]-PUOlp0AwWU[/TUBE]
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Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 7:06pm
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Ok..Darrel..I'm still with you.So the story continues like this. We originally thought we would haul it ourselves..on our cozad. But knowing the weight we thought we would find somebody else. We enlisted the help of a friend...Dennis McFarland...McFarland Trucking Inc, Calpella,Ca. Dennis has a fleet of logging trucks...some van trucks...some lowbed tucks among other things. He is an antique truck enthusiast.....and has his own truck collection. He's very active in many antique trucking shows and displays as well as organizing them. He's aware of our AC collection.So when we ask him..he said "I'm in..lets go" We had plenty of room to work around the tractor so it wasn't to difficult to position the trailer.    So of course with any important project there is a...safety meeting..or maybe a planning meeting...or yes a BS meeting. So LtoR Dave Ford,Jeff Ford, (no relation) Mel Ford, Dennis McFarland. Jeff is the Engle neighbor to the north. He is helping us load the 21 with his Cat D6C. He and his father had a rock quarry and dump trucking company in Sonoma County for many years. They sold there quarry and Jeff is down to one legal Ca. dump truck now (CARB rules). He's thinking about retiring and moving to Nevada...had it with Ca. He and his father had a HD 41 and HD21C in there quarry...can't wait to share the 21C story later. We really appreciate Jeff's help as part of our recovery team.  Jeff had a really straight shot at the trailer and lots of room on both sides to maneuver for steering.  |
Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 7:11pm
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https://youtu.be/aNdmy2xsBMs" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/aNdmy2xsBMs Ok...DAVE beat me to it...to many interruptions today..Also Dave what is the trick to bypass the link? I'll post more photos tomorrow
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Posted By: HD6GTOM
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 7:17pm
| Great to see you back lots of folks been wondering about you. Interesting project. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 8:40pm
Take the exact link, copy it, Go to long form reply, cliclk that, then make sure cursor is blinking, where you want the video, in the post, hit the 8th icon (filmstrip), and a box pops up. Paste link into box. hit preview, on top, to check, hit post at bottom, to post. If you are making a new post, you are already in the long form reply format.
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AC Mel wrote:Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 10:17pm
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Great to hear from you Mel, especially with a new project! I figured you would be out with your cat building new fire roads, etc. I notice in the third from last picture a wheel loader in the background and a person near the tire, perhaps checking the air pressure or something... ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 11:06pm
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John...good eye..yes we put air in the tires of that loader...we hauled it off for the estate also. that will be a separate post later. Haven't been invited to the current round of fires....another horrible event here. |
Posted By: NomoreJohnDeere
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 1:40am
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great project all out effort there ------------- HD3 |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:45am
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Always Rescue Old Machines!!!! ;-) Great job, guys!!!!  ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:04pm
| Cool thanks for sharing |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 8:41pm
| YAAAH!!! Doesn't look like operator has much chance to see over hood on the loader. Guess you drive off the side view? |
Posted By: rodnil
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2018 at 9:22pm
| In my younger years of life I worked at the Allis Chalmers plant in Springfield , Illinois. I saw a lot of D 21's go out of that plant. There was overhead cranes that could lift a lot of these machines and load onto rail cars for transportation. We built a lot of HD 16 in Army green headed to Viet Nam. I was drafted in 1965 and one of my last jobs was up fitting the engines going into a D 41 that was to be on display at the state fair. I went off to the army and to Viet Nam came home and later discharged. During that time I was laid off and hired back at least two times. After my discharged I was again in the laid off status. Its good to see those old units being saved and put back into use if only in a display mode . Good luck with your HD 21. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 4:43am
Rodnil, thanks for your service, both to AC, and the US!
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Posted By: AC Mel
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 10:14am
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Thanks guy for the nice comments....here's the final pics.  Looks like we just drove it on there  Here's a team picture (L to R) Dennis Gulick, Brannen Bray, Dave Ford, Elvi Engle (daughter-in-law of the late Tom Engle), Mel Ford, Dennis McFarland, Jeff Ford..taking the photo Jeff Wright...Jeff usually goes on these rescue missions and runs my camera. So we can close this chapter on rescuing Toms HD21G...The next chapter will be started soon...restoring it to operating condition...it will be a slow process...it has lots of big pieces!! We know Tom will be happy...as well as everyone on the AC Forum that will be watching.  |
Posted By: darrel in ND
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 10:51am
| Thanks again for the pictures and story, Mel. I am really looking forward to following the restoration process. I know that you are a busy man, but don't be a stranger on here. Check in often. BTW, what engine is in that beast. ...? Thanks, Darrel |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 12:12pm
Rod,I was around 9 back then but I distinctly remember that "Fair" 41 had 2 engines side by side and a B1 or B10 setting on the hood.Was I dreaming? |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 6:57pm
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The engine in the HD-21 series had at least TWO different engines... the early ones a BUDA 844ci, the later ALLIS 21000... but for some reason, what I've read, that the HD21 line stopped with the C model. I suspect the sources are incorrect... One of the neat things... is that the Nebraska rated drawbar horsepower comes to a pinch over 135... ...but the drawbar PULL... 40,563lbs...for a 45,500lb machine. That's commensurate with a well-set-up tracked vehicle- the soil tractive-effort predictions of wheeled vehicles don't apply here... it's almost a 1:1 under basically any condition. The reason the drawbar horsepower is so low at that (astronomical) pull level, is simply because it's moving SLOW. (Work = force x distance, power = work x time). I'd be willing to bet... that when that ripper is dug in, if one were to measure the actual drawbar force it was capable of generating, that it'd go substantially higher because the ripper's downforce was augmenting the 'plant' of the tracks. With Tom's unit... a heavy load of dirt in the bucket probably made that ripper downright incredible... ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Dan Hauter
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 7:52pm
| Fantastic, interesting, inspiring job! Another A-C dozer rescued. I remember seeing an HD41 at the Illinois State Fair. That was one really big dozer! |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 8:39pm
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That loader really looks big when it's setting on the low boy! I wonder how bad the engine is? Looking forward to progress on then machine! ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:21pm
| yet another great save by my big buddy MEL! thanks for posting this and I and others are looking forward to your updates as they happen! also glad to see you safe from all them fires ya'll been having out there again/still! |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:51pm
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That is great there Mell... saving that old iron... and always amzes me how you folks seem to make a restoration look so easy... and almost effortlessly ... and quick. Loading... [TUBE]aNdmy2xsBMs[/TUBE] ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 6:56am
| Mel....was you the firstest one to jump in line so you could stand next to the gal? |
Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 2:58pm
| Sure good to see and hear from you Mel, glad all is well with you, been wondering how you was doing with the latest fires going on out there. Tom |
Posted By: jerbob
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 4:07pm
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Success!!!! Like there was ever a doubt. Great to see you and your troops in action Mel. Really looking forward to see the process. You continue to be an inspiration to novices like myself. ------------- HD16DC, Bobcat 863 Turbo, Oliver 1855, John Deere 855, |
Posted By: AC7060IL
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 4:52pm
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I remember going up the 11stairs to get to the operators platform of the AC HD41 at the 1973 State Fair. Mel, Good to see you posting again! I'm enjoying following your HD21 rescue - Thank you. It seems like we watch the CA fires on the news everyday. Glad you are ok. Prayers to everyone there in CA. |
Posted By: hd16b
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 8:03pm
| Good to see you posting again Mel,when me and Brayden win the lottery were going to help you restore some your machines |
Posted By: Tracy Martin TN
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 8:13pm
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Mel, nice job loading the old gal up. Hope to see it running soon! Tracy ------------- No greater gift than healthy grandkids! |
Posted By: orangeman
Date Posted: 16 Dec 2018 at 9:40am
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Mel/All: Any ideas on how many HD 21G units were sent out of Springfield? Am glad Mel and his team were able to secure this machine and keep it where it belongs - in the USA! Orangeman
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Posted By: Reindeer
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2018 at 6:54pm
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Enjoyed the videos, and the post. Looking forward to following along as this beast gets back to life! ------------- |
Posted By: Johnwilson_osf
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2018 at 9:08pm
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Wow. Great story. Love to see something recovered and restored. The previous owner will be smiling down on that machine when it runs again. Looking at the first pictures, I thought that dozer isn't so big.....Then I see the picture with people standing next to it.....Wow that is a big beast. Will be watching this one. John ------------- Allis Express: Eastern PA on Rt 80 8050, 8010, 6080, 190, D14, DA 6035, AA 6690, 5650, Gleaner F2 |