Ambac 100 pump
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=155274
Printed Date: 16 May 2024 at 9:05pm
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Topic: Ambac 100 pump
Posted By: HagerAC
Subject: Ambac 100 pump
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2018 at 8:29pm
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So today the injection pump died in my 8070. Just wondering if it's a common thing because I would have never guessed it would just up and quit like it did. Anybody else have this happen? Tractor has 4500 hours on it and the pump was rebuilt once when the previous owner had it. Just curious ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Replies:
Posted By: Brad in WA
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 8:54am
| Yes it's way too common, I've replaced them in both of my 8070's. AC using Ambac pumps is one of the reasons they aren't in business any more, total POS. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 9:11am
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I always thought if this pump is in need of a rebuild I would like to put an a series pump on it like many have done. Well since it died and we're trying to finish up harvest that's not gonna happen. I will have a reman from ambac in my hands on Monday for $1400. Yippee!! ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: 8070220
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 9:18am
| Had a good rebuild one here for 750 if any one else need one I have some dm4 7060 and I got some db like the 180 190 .and I got inj here to for them . |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 11:22am
| Seems odd that it just quit without symptoms but,I don't know anything about them to say.The one on my 8070 had no govenor action below 1500 and wouldn't start hot. Easy to kill and then there you set. Learned to carry a jug of water to aid the hot start.LOL |
Posted By: Brad in WA
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 1:56pm
| They don't have govenor response at ANY rpm. |
Posted By: Ron(AB)
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 2:17pm
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It seems the 8070 is the worst with that pump. I have a 8050 which is slightly better. Combines are less noticeable because they're always wide open... Anyone have some pics of their conversions? |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 2:32pm
| Tyler Peterson has put A pumps on these, he,s got it going on with those ! |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 6:45pm
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Well I got lucky. I was getting ready to pull the pump this afternoon and I decided to pull the top cover off just to take a peek in there. It just so happened a cotter pin fell out where the governor control arm attaches and it was wedged against the side of the pump and it ended up shutting the tractor down. Much happier than I was yesterday. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 7:08pm
  Glad to hear something simple happened... Did you quick cancel of the other one?  ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 7:16pm
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I'll have to call pump shop on Monday. My guess is I might have to pay to ship it back. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2018 at 10:55pm
| Now you'll have time to get parts together to install an A pump for the future |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 9:50am
This seems to happen more often on ones that have had to tighten up the spring to help get the annoying flutter out of the exhaust. Some shops tighten that up alot just to be proactive, but that is one thing that leads to the lazy governing, and ends up wearing the cotter pin off. PS tractor? ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
HagerAC wrote:Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2018 at 7:43pm
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Yes indeed, exactly ed. I have to go in there and tighten that nut up periodically to keep the flutter out of it. Can definitely tell when you get it too tight as well. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: RelianceWorks
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 11:24am
| we offer a complete kit to switch it to an A pump if you like |
Posted By: Ron(AB)
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 12:43pm
| What's an "A" pump for those of us that don't know? |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 1:29pm
| Bosch A series.Inline pump found on like 4430 deere. Not the BIG "P" pump but big enough....If I had (another) 8000 with the Ambac,when it came pump time I would spend my money with Reliance since they have already done the "hard" stuff. |
Posted By: Ron(AB)
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 5:06pm
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Thanks, Steve. Good to know! |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 9:02pm
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While we're on the subject of this pump, is there any way to get the governor to be a little more responsive? I've been reading a little online about the cam and the droop screw. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 9:34pm
| Ed will know but I was under impression there is a lot of adjusting to do on these to make them right and a test stand is the only way to get there as well as knowing yer stuff. I have been wrong before. |
Posted By: Tenn allis
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 5:27am
| I have an 8070 it seems really lazy with the throttle response. I also have some a pumps what is involved with the conversion any idea of cost . Can this be done at a reasonable cost |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 7:31am
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Well hopefully Ed will chime in here again on this post. I'd just like this thing to have a little better throttle response and governor response when a bigger load is on. I've driven 7060s that pull like a freight train at most any rpm, but the 8000 series seem to have to be wound tight to keep pulling. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 7:34am
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part of the lazy governor response problem on M100 pumps comes from having to tighten the friction spring on the governor rod to keep the flutter out. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 7:36am
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I understand that ed, that's why I'm real cautious and only tighten it enough to take the flutter out. Would I be ok if I backed to droop screw out a few turns? ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 8:54am
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droop screw can be taken out if you want. The latest revision of 8070 spec calls for removal of the droop screw. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 9:49am
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Ok ed, I appreciate the insight. Thanks much ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 10:23am
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The last revision for all the AC tractor M100 pumps called for different governor springs and shimming specs to correct the fluttering issue, without having to tighten the spring so much! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 11:25am
send Reliance PM |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 4:57pm
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Ed, wondering if it would be possible to pull the governor housing of the pump off and send it to you this winter and have you go thru and set it up to the latest specs. Or would you need the whole pump. Was thinking if I could leave pump on tractor and just send governor section to you. Thanks ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 5:10pm
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whole pump ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 7:51pm
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Ok. Kinda what I figured. I did look under the cover again tonight and the droop screw is already gone. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 7:52pm
To do the swap PROPERLY, you need to change out the front engine plate. I have tried the "adapter" from kcgrain. Dont like it at all. I've done both and will be converting the adapter tractor one over soon. And one needs a injection pump without the retarding plungers. Bending injection lines is the next fun part. It's a damn good swap to do, but I'm going to try a roosamaster on our 8030 soon. And putting together a roosa pumped n6 engine for our new 8050. ------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 8:01pm
| I thought the retarding plungers would aid starting? Couldn't tell you whats in mine.Just know it starts on the first turn. |
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 8:19am
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You would think they would, but have a deere pump with them on our 220. When its above 40* it starts great. Below that, it just BELCHES smoke and coughs on fuel. Now the 8050 with the deutz pump, it has no trouble at all. I've tried high timing and low timing. Dont know why the allis's dont like the retarding plungers. ------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 12:49pm
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sWhich spring are you guys talking about to help the flutter? Our 8030 has had the pump sent off to fix a flutter issue. Got it back and it was good for 20 hours maybe and its back to doing the same thing. Tractor has good power, starts great, just has a real bad flutter when not under a hard pull. ------------- Making A living everyday farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 1:05pm
Had this same trouble with our couple 8000 series. Have you ever replaced the fuel hose that goes from the fuel filter to the head of the pump? Not the hoses on the back of the pump, the one that goes to the front of the pump on the side.
------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: RelianceWorks
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 1:59pm
| Odd out of the 100+ 8000/7000 series tractors and Gleaner combines running with adapters not one has failed or had a complaint, yet the 1 adapter you bought has been plagued with problems? What exactly is not working PROPERLY on those adapters? |
Posted By: Peterson
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 2:15pm
Never said that it didn't work, it just isn't the best way to mount the pump. The proper way is to mount it directly on the front plate. Seems to me your still mad at me for having my 8050 engine build posted on here "showing" how to A pump these engines  . Have a great day!  ------------- 7095-685I at 255hp, 8070-225HP,8050-210Hp,8030 with 155HP,220 with 670T engine with A-pump, 7580, 185 with 140HP, 2-6080's,6070, S4 D17,wd45,CA,st34 agco, S1 D17 with 3500MK2 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 2:31pm
| Well, every engineer has reasons for doing something the way they did it. Ease of installation might be one reason. Cost may be another reason. Reliability should be a reason. And a combination of these 3 and more reasons could have something to do with it. You like your way, and that's great. But, it doesn't mean it is thee best and only way to do it. |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 3:26pm
I detect a little friction  ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 5:53pm
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If you take the top cover of the pump with the 4 bolts there is the fulcrum lever that attaches to the governor lever. It's kinda hard to explain without a picture but there is a nut next you where the governor arm attaches that is towards the outside of the pump housing. There is a spring between the governor arm and the nut. I've had to tighten this nut periodically to keep the flutter out. From what I've been told there are different governor springs that are down in the pump that are supposed to cure this problem. I guess it is more of a problem in the powershift tractors. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 6:08pm
 ACFarmer here's a pic of the pump schematic. The nut is located where the arrow is pointing. There is a nut on the opposite side holding a cam looking piece. Don't do anything with that nut, just tighten the one next to the governor arm. Tighten it enough to take care of the flutter but make sure the fulcrum lever still moves freely. If it's too tight it'll really make the governor lazy. This schematic must be from a pump used on an IH because everything is on the opposite side of the ones used on the ac's. I've changed the fuel line on mine but it did not cure the flutter in mine. Hope this helps ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 7:17pm
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Thanks. Gives me an idea on where to head with it. The flutter makes it annoying to run. And it is a powershift as well. ------------- Making A living everyday farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2018 at 8:44pm
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Yes I know how you feel. I had another forum member inform me on it and he actually came to our farm and helped me with mine. We tried to loctite the nut in place that time but it never held. Being its been too wet to do much here the last few days I took the time and tried to loctite it again. Hoping it will hold this time. ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 7:11am
| Takes a 7/16" wrench if I remember right. |
Posted By: HagerAC
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 7:20am
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7/16 probably works. Its actually an 11 mm. Same size as the bolts for the top cover ------------- 30+ A-Cs ranging from a 1928 20-35, to a 1984 8070FWA, Gleaner R52 |
Posted By: RelianceWorks
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 10:02am
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No, your completely wrong about friction. Many people have mounted an A pump directly, but they didn't contact me to help them make it work afterwards. If you have it all figured out, then you spend the time and money and figure it out for yourself. Your the one that got upset because I wouldn't help you. Your statement was the PROPER way to mount is to bolt to the front plate, and that you tried the adapter and didn't like it, and will be converting it back. Your alluding that there is a problem mounting the pump with adapters. Anybody is free to mount a pump anyway they chose but to mount on the front plate you have to take the plate off the tractor and have a machine shop locate and redrill and rebore the holes to make an A pump fit. To get the front plate off any 7/8000 series you have to take the cam out, which means you either have to get lucky enough to hold the lifters in place as you pull the cam, or remove the engine and flip it upside down to pull the cam remove the plate etc. I have met few machine shops that drop everything to locate and remount pumps, so your talking weeks at the quickest. The adapters on 7000 series just unbolt old rosa master pump, bolt on adapter bolt on pump, attatch new lines and your going. On 8000 series you have to remove the front cover and change the idler gear, then the process is the same as a 7000 series. Solid steel adapters, oring grooved so they dont leak, machine fit morris taper for the drive gear, timing pin is in the same spot. We made it as simple as possible. Many engines run adapters right form the factory to mount pumps, the 11000 series engine comes to mind. Our kit allows the tractor to be converted in hours,direct mounting would be weeks waiting for the machine shop, unless your going to go buy another front plate, which is more expense, and machine shops charge by the hour, all the time they burn up trying to locate that pump your paying for. Have a great day my friend
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Posted By: Kevin in WA
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 10:08am
| I have had an A pump with a Relianceworks adapter running on one of my 8070s for 12 years now, no problem with the mounting. Governor action is far superior to the rattletrap AMBAC M100 pumps. |
Posted By: Ron(AB)
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2018 at 12:49pm
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Most of us with these tractors just want to know: 1. Is it possible? 2. What is the cost? 3. How great (if any) are the benefits? 4. What is involved? (if we can do it ourselves... being farmer mechanics) 5. Is there any options or alternate choices that may be better/worse? Hopefully, with all of those facts we can decide how to proceed. We all love our tractors. Compared to the new ones they still are great! We just want them to be a bit more responsive and maybe better starting. |
Posted By: GM Guy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2018 at 10:55pm
Got a link? Have an L3 with a dying pump. ------------- Gleaner: the properly engineered and built combine. If you need parts for your Gleaner, we are parting out A's through L2's, so we may be able to help. |
Posted By: soggybottomboy
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 8:50am
| If a person had unlimited funding(which i don't),what would be the best pump that a person could install on an 8000 series tractor? |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 9:15am
Actually, it is 7/16", those are American Bosch pumps, and all fasteners are standard, most are 1/4" coarse, some 1/4" fine. ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |