High rpm 125 motor
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=153624
Printed Date: 27 Apr 2024 at 12:02pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: High rpm 125 motor
Posted By: Super B
Subject: High rpm 125 motor
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 8:14am
I'm new to discussion forums. building what I'm calling a Super B, and I want to build a high RPM engine for it. Any advice? Hardened seats? Why is the compression so low? Will D15 pistons work on it? Looking for about 3,000 Rpm. Bigger valves? I'm building my own exhaust and intake out of stainless steel. 
|
Replies:
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 8:21am
Another photo
|
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 8:27am
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 9:04am
|
All you really need to do is re-work the geometry of the governor linkage. They are generally balanced fairly well. i run my pulling engines around 4500 RPMs with nothing special done to them. Altough if you are only planning on more road speed as opposed to working under load, I’d suggest taller tires will do more with less. ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 10:07am
| I have no idea what your intentions are for using this tractor, but give these items consideration if you would. I have a WD-45 that I take on "tractor rides", and some days they might be 75 miles in length, which means 5 to 6 hours of engine running time, depending on the pace. Some days, I am near full throttle all day long. I have zero model "B" engine experience, but a fair amount of D-14/D15 experience. I cannot imagine 3,000 RPM continuously on a tractor ride with splash lube connecting rod bearings. Maybe they'd be fine, but the correct choice of engine oil viscosity would be very important. A pressurized oiling system like the D-14/D-15 have would surely be better. A D-15 series 2 governor spring would get you 2,400 RPM if your governor linkage is the later design "B" parts. An additional helper spring on the carb side would get you your desired 3,000 RPM's. Keeping the governor action like a stock tractor would be important I think. A slightly larger carb from a D-14 or D-15 series 2 would help add RPM and HP as well. You don't need bigger valves. The bigger carb will do more than bigger valves and a stock carb. More compression would be good for more HP and torque at all engine speeds. Good luck with your "One-of-a-kind" project. |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 10:12am
|
It is for the road i have 50 in tires on it and have a ca trans in it and want the option of going even faster i am going to delete these govenor and driver it with my foot and use a rev limter in the electronics and if u can run yours 4500 i guess I can too.will d15 pistons and sleeves go go in my 125 ci? |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 10:20am
| Thanks for the well wishs.will the d15 motor go right in? Would the shorter stoke 125 put up with the higher rpms? |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 10:20am
| Better |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 10:27am
|
Super B wrote:Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 11:05am
|
Hi Super B, welcome to the forum. I don't have any engine advice for you but if you want to change or edit a post, instead of starting a new one, you can go to the "Post Options" on the upper right, scroll down to edit and click on it. You can then change or add to the post in the message box. I find doing that saves me embarrassing mistakes, or comments I realize I shouldn't have made... Beautiful machine in your pictures, by the way! ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 11:24am
|
Just a novice at any engine performance mods here, so take this for what it is worth. I would think without a governor, you would have almost no control of your mid range, yes your rev limiter would keep you safely at the 3K area, but even then it would 'bounce' off the limiter correct? I would think without a governor you would have to build you foot linkage so that much movement from bouncing, or just moving in the seat would not show up in the butterfly valve, otherwise you will have wild excursions of RPM right? ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 11:52am
|
I would agree with All of what you said. But I am going to use a mikuni carb with a slide it has lot more range of motion and wont be so jumpy and with a choke style cable for a throtle to set and use my foot to override it when i want i think it will work |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 11:58am
| A "CA" rear end with 50 inch tires @ 1650 RPM should do 13 MPH. So, at 3300 RPM it would do 26 MPH. That's plenty fast enough for any tractor ride I've ever been on !!! At 2400 RPM (D-15 governor top speed) it would be rolling along at 19 MPH approximately. I wouldn't even consider a 5 hour tractor operating the engine speed with my foot. |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 12:07pm
| I can set the hand controlled cable where l want and take my foot of the foot pedal cars r controlled that way all the time |
Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 1:13pm
|
Super B, I think you have a appropriate name! That is a awesome custom machine! Thanks for the pictures it really tells us a lot. And your way beyond what I can do!:) Regards, Chris ------------- D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet. |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 1:18pm
| Its different from most. It will have ac too |
Posted By: woodsman89
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 1:41pm
| Pretty small cam shaft, pointy lopes. all for low end. springs are pretty light. If you just want rpm it might be ok, but won't be much power. |
Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 3:18pm
| If you put to big of carb on it will cut off on hard pull. Not enough vaccum to pull fuel through a big venture. Got a C A carb on my B and it has cut off going up hill with low fuel .Might not experience such on road trip. |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 4:16pm
| I have many different sizes of carbs lucky and i know that I won't get it the first time thanks for the input |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 4:34pm
|
The "B" cylinder liners can be bore from 3 3/8 inch to 3 7/16 inch for a few extra inches over 125.. The liners from the larger 149-161 motor will not fit into the smaller block.. The larger motor can be put into the B tractor and bolt to the flywheel and torque tube with out much modification... but the hood may be a couple inches short.
the larger motors have a longer stroke to also get more displacement ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 5:18pm
| I have many different sizes of carbs lucky and i know that I won't get it the first time thanks for the input |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 5:24pm
| Thanks sounds like u been through it. What rpms did they run that big motor at? |
Posted By: bradley6874
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 5:53pm
|
Wait till Mr Bill here's about air conditioning on a B and how fast you want to go just curious ------------- You can wash the dirt off the body but you can’t wash the farmer out of the heart and soul |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 6:00pm
| I have many different sizes of carbs lucky and i know that I won't get it the first time thanks for the input |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 6:05pm
| 30 mph would be great i wouldn't drive it that fast normally but it would be nice to know it could |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 6:27pm
CA and B had the same engine. If it cut out going uphill, you had a fuel restriction, nothing to do with the carb size. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 8:28pm
|
My gas MF-135 and gas 4020 without any mods used to run at 22 or 23 mph on the road. Most tractor rides around here plan on 12 or 13 mph. Gerald J. |
Posted By: wfmurray
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2018 at 9:34pm
| C tucker.Took carb off a C A and had to file holes out about a quarter to get it to fit on B.Do not know what but there is a differnce somewhere.Engine has a surg at no load and never need to choke to crank which means it has a rich intake .Has no main jet. Thanks. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 6:03am
I built my pulling Allis C to run 4000 RPM. I had the engine shop grind a D 15 crankshaft to a 4 inch stroke and balance the crankshaft and flywheel. I sent the D 15 camshaft to Crane Cam to grind it to the engine set up. The cross drilling of the crankshaft was plugged and redrilled to have a oil pressure system. I used small block Chevy valves and ported the head. I took .150 off the head. I modified the pistons to enter the firing chamber and weighed each one on a gram scale to get them at the exact weight each with rod and bearings. The head looked like the last one I did in the pictures below.  
|
Posted By: B26240
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 6:22am
| Well you will be the first to arrive at the end of your tractor ride unless you go with the Aussie guys that have Chamberlin tractors that go 45 MPH |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 6:50am
| Nice head job. Did u do alot of intake and exhaust work on the manifold. Hp? |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 6:53am
| What was your final com ratio. Why was stock com so low? |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 7:24am
| Compression ratios back in that day was related to how good of gasoline (or kerosene) one could purchase. The compression was probably just as high as anyone else's was at that time. |
Posted By: HoughMade
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 9:49am
|
Very interesting project. What are you doing for brakes on this 30 mph tractor? ------------- 1951 B |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 9:50am
| Fred Flintstone always got his vehicle stopped............ |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 11:27am
|
The power take off was optional on these tractors was optional which allowed me to skip the horse power check on some tracks. Never checking it also me to truthfully say I didn't know. Pulls that checked RPM's I used a governor spring that would pass the RPM check. I kept a selection of springs in the truck took box which let me to keep up at the pulls where other pullers exceeded the 10% over the tractor manual RPM normal rule. I matched the manifold ports to the head at the gasket. No way to know the restriction the rest of the way back to the exhaust opening or carburetor. I am sure they are restricted internally. The reason I am sure is because I have sectioned old manifolds to see how they were constructed and found flaws that make you wonder how the tractor ran as well as they did. Some of the pulls I pulled in the tractor had to look original in every way. I had to modify the carburetor to match the needs of the modified engine and still use the original carburetor. It all work well as I have often bragged about thru this video. The second pull had the 4000 rpm spring even though I did not use the full throttle. I only used what it took to keep the sled moving. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM4YbM8keMM&t=67s" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM4YbM8keMM&t=67s |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 12:51pm
I use a Holley off of a 190 on the tractor without the turbo. My pulling engines will run about 4500RPMs Watch this if you like speed. this is 3rd gear at 2500 pounds http://youtu.be/xxEUbb1qNmo I don't do lame low gear pulling. this is 2nd gear at 3000 pounds. the turbo tractor is in 3rd http://youtu.be/73L8j9b4jdE ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2018 at 9:59pm
| I'm not a tractor ride sort of guy at this point of my life. It will be mostly just for fun and parades. I have always liked faster sort of stuff and this tractor has been on the farm since the 50s. I have mowed yard with it for many years and dad had that cab on a wd45 in the 50s. I thought it would be great to pair them up. We stopped mowing with it 5 or so years ago and l thought it would be fun to make a toy out of it and it kinda got out of hand. I am not planning to run it hours at 3000 rpms but be comfortable at 20mph. I got new brakes on it and with them not full of dirt they will work good enough. I don't know what the final product is going to be. I keep on coming up with new ideas. I will keep you posted. |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 5:37am
| It is about what you enjoy not what others enjoy. Have fun with it and keep the pictures coming as you develop your ideas on the old B. Many others will see your tractor modifications and view it as they would an artist painting on a canvas. I am one of those. Thanks for sharing! |
Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 6:56am
| Now all you need is one of those MOPAR Super BEE stickers.....LOL |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 7:45am
| Thank you. I think u understand me.l need to find a super bee decal |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 5:40am
   I put a quickster gearbox on my steering shaft to slow down the steering. Make it 4.5 lock to lock compared to 2.25 .hillbilly power steering and a little easier to drive down the road |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 5:43am
| Got the ca trans in it too |
Posted By: AlexT
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 7:56am
| Make sure the connecting rods alnd flywheel are rated for 3k+ rpms |
Posted By: MikeinLcoMo
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 8:11am
|
There is a guy on here that put a D 14 in his lowB for mowing. Sweet machine for mowing at the private airport where he keeps his planes. Maybe he will chime in. ------------- 39B 42B 48C SFW 52Cub Cub Cadet 70 S14 Speedex M14 Speedex S18 Speedex |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 11:55am
|
I'd like to find a d14 motor go through it Balance it lighten the rotating assembly and let her spin |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 4:47pm
| The D 14 has a crankshaft 3 7/8" stroke with a crankshaft bearing oil pressure system compared to the B, C, and CA with a 3 1/2" stroke with a centrifugal force bearing oil system. A good choice for the higher RPM's |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 5:31pm
| Does a d14 motor have the same intake manifold bolt pattern as a b? |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2018 at 7:02pm
| I don't think so! Different part numbers! I never tried to interchange one. I have one out here somewhere that I took off and put somewhere years ago. A lot of that stuff went on a load of scrap that I had help with. |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 9:02am
  Got the hood made for the super b xt |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 9:16am
| That is going to be a head turner for sure when done. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 12:19am
|
If you REALLY wanted to go fast... Remove the axle housings... Cut and drill cover plates, cut a hole in 'em to allow the axleshaft to come through, make new axle outer housings, include backing plates and brakes, hubs, etc., out of axle shafts liberated from a medium duty truck axle (like a 16k capacity dually) in there. Make wheels that'll accept a taller tire (mebbie a 34"?) Oh, and open up the transaxle, flip over the differential gear. By losing the reduction drive, you'll gain substantial rear wheel RPM. By going to larger diameter rear wheel, you'll gain even more... it oughta cover ground really darned quick.  ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 6:59am
That would be G axle housings. They will bolt right up and you will change over to the double shoe brakes at the same time. ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2018 at 9:02am
|
Yes, G's would do it... dunno how well they'd handle heavy loads, as I've never seen the castings apart in person, but same idea. Nice pulls, Paul... how much boost you running in that singing hair-dryer? ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2018 at 5:51pm
| My math says it will go 20 mph at 2000 rpms. 35 mph at3500 that will be fast enough. |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 8:53pm
| Almost ready for paint having trouble posting pictures for some reason. Get back to you |
Posted By: Dusty MI
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 12:39pm
|
I have a D-10 series III with the 2 speed range transmission in front of the 4 speed transmission. It has the larger rear tires. It does 16.25 mph. Every thing is stock. I enjoy taking it on tractor drives. Dusty ------------- 917 H, '48 G, '65 D-10 series III "Allis Express" |
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 5:22pm
|
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 5:23pm
|
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 5:29pm
|
Posted By: Super B
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 5:31pm
|